Witherspoon

[CallMeADawg]

I mean, kind of. But I just don't feel like it is anywhere close to a two way exchange with Eagles fans. Feels one sided and manufactured on the side of Hawks fans.

This argument is solely draft capital related. Through 4 games, I'd place my vote for Witherspoon being the top defensive player taken thus far. Plenty of football to go though.

 

[KinesProf]

The defending league champion had arguably the league's best DT last year.

Kinda laughing at the argument that Aaron Donald needed help to win a SB, but Richard Sherman didn't.

Yeah, it is silly. Donald played in a Super Bowl where the Rams D held the Patriots to 13 points.

 

[SheaD]

I mean, kind of. But I just don't feel like it is anywhere close to a two way exchange with Eagles fans. Feels one sided and manufactured on the side of Hawks fans.

Go to any teams subreddit/forum. Every team's fans react this way, and have for as long as I can remember. I don't even see what you are talking about as being Hawks fans going against Eagles fans. What you have here is HAWKS fans coming into Seattle forums and talking smack about Witherspoon, and people getting a chance to blow it back in their faces.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Are DTs supposed to rack up tackles? There are literally only two DTs in the top 100 in tackles right now: Harrison Phillips is tied for 58th while Derrick Brown is tied for 80th. Yet, somehow Carter having low tackle numbers is a "checkmate" argument?

Idk, are defensive backs suppose to have more sacks than D-tackles?

 

[knownone]

Idk, are defensive backs suppose to have more sacks than D-tackles?

Can we repurpose this as a defense of the Jamal Adams trade?

 

[Rat]

Idk, are defensive backs suppose to have more sacks than D-tackles?

Are you trying to make the argument that Carter has struggled rushing the passer? He's among the league leaders in pressures and pass-rush win rate. There's plenty of reason to like Witherspoon better without making things up about Carter.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Can we repurpose this as a defense of the Jamal Adams trade?

No but it is on topic to reference the Russell Wilson trade since that's where the pick that landed Witherspoon came from.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Are you trying to make the argument that Carter has struggled rushing the passer?

I'm countering your argument with a similar argument.

If we're breaking down which rookie's had a better 1st four games, I'd say objectively that it's Witherspoon. Especially considering he didn't play in the 1st game. More tackles, more sacks, more interceptions, more impact on games. More more and more.

 

[Rat]

I'm countering your argument with a similar argument.

If we're breaking down which rookie's had a better 1st four games, I'd say objectively that it's Witherspoon. Especially considering he didn't play in the 1st game. More tackles, more sacks, more interceptions, more impact on games. More more and more.

So, you think tackles are more indicative of Carter's impact than pressures and pass-rush win rate? I guess Witherspoon was terrible in weeks 2 and 3 because he had no sacks or INTs. Interesting how the Giants keep going up against the best defenders every week. Such bad luck.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So, you think tackles are more indicative of Carter's impact than pressures and pass-rush win rate? I guess Witherspoon was terrible in weeks 2 and 3 because he had no sacks or INTs. Interesting how the Giants keep going up against the best defenders every week. Such bad luck.

That's why I'm using a cumulative stat count, because that's a fair way of comparing how each player has played thus far. In fact I'm using two stats, sacks and tackles that a D-lineman should have more of than a DB who hasn't played in as many games.

Not cherry picking stats like you are, because it serves your argument? Idk.

But keep on bashin' my brother, it livens up the forum.

 

[knownone]

No but it is on topic to reference the Russell Wilson trade since that's where the pick that landed Witherspoon came from.

Why can't we? Some people are using sacks as the primary value factor while ignoring pressures and other more essential pass rush stats. And following that logic, the Jamal Adams trade was a fantastic deal for the Seahawks. He had more sacks than Chris Jones, Jeffery Simmons, and almost as many as Aaron Donald in 2020.

 

[sutz]

He reminds Troy Aikman of a former teammate who also wore #21!

Yeah, but Prime Time was never a willing tackler like Spoon is.

 

[Rat]

That's why I'm using a cumulative stat count, because that's a fair way of comparing how each player has played thus far. In fact I'm using two stats, sacks and tackles that a D-lineman should have more of than a DB who hasn't played in as many games.

Not cherry picking stats like you are, because it serves your argument? Idk.

But keep on bashin' my brother, it livens up the forum

Yeah, I'm the one cherry-picking. Because pressures and beating your defender on the pass rush aren't important for a DT, but tackles, a stat where zero DTs in the league even rank in the top 50 is.

So, you think Witherspoon was terrible before this week then?

 

[MyrtleHawk]

So, you think tackles are more indicative of Carter's impact than pressures and pass-rush win rate? I guess Witherspoon was terrible in weeks 2 and 3 because he had no sacks or INTs. Interesting how the Giants keep going up against the best defenders every week. Such bad luck.

Interesting. Okay, let's stat that.

Game 1 for Eagles was Patriots, their current OLine rank is #17. Game 2 for Eagles was Vikings, their current OLine rank is #14. Game 3 for Eagles was the Buccaneers, their current OLine rank is #15. And just recently Game 4 for Eagles was the Commanders, their current Oline rank is #28.

Middling to bottom end O-Lines so far for Eagles competition, if Carter wasn't getting good stats on that Superbowl Eagles defensive line, there'd be a MAJOR problem.

 

[Rat]

Interesting. Okay, let's stat that.

Game 1 for Eagles was Patriots, their current OLine rank is #17. Game 2 for Eagles was Vikings, their current OLine rank is #14. Game 3 for Eagles was the Buccaneers, their current OLine rank is #15. And just recently Game 4 for Eagles was the Commanders, their current Oline rank is #28.

Middling to bottom end O-Lines so far for Eagles competition, if Carter wasn't getting good stats on that Superbowl Eagles defensive line, there'd be a MAJOR problem.

Does it matter how many of Witherspoon's stats came against the Giants then? They have some ghastly offensive rankings.

Personally, I hate the Eagles and was lukewarm at best on Carter going into that draft. He's not my horse in this race, I just think some of the arguments being used to prop him up against Witherspoon are absurd.

 

[SNDavidson]

Thank you Russel Wilson's ego for you have given us a donc ruining bounty of better young talent.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

Does it matter how many of Witherspoon's stats came against the Giants then? They have some ghastly offensive rankings.

Not sure about that, Giants scored more points last week on arguably the best defense in the league than they did us, so...

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Yeah, I'm the one cherry-picking. Because pressures and beating your defender on the pass rush aren't important for a DT, but tackles, a stat where zero DTs in the league even rank in the top 50 is.

So, you think Witherspoon was terrible before this week then?

I'm using stats that are applicable to both, you're the one only using stats that are applicable to only the player you're defending.

I think Witherspoon was 75% good and 25% bad before this week. Which is hard to find too much fault in considering he hadn't played a down of real football since his last game at Illinois.

My point in the entire banal argument is all the "we should have drafted Carter" honks before they even saw Witherspoon play a down of football because they saw Carter make one splash play on national TV and then did nothing for the next three quarters should maybe pump the brakes a little.

 

[White Devil]

I wanted Carter because if he turns out to be Aaron Donald for the next decade, that would be hard to pass on. Didn't care about the off-field stuff. He's a kid and can mature. It also was a glaring need for the team, so it just made more sense.

I admit I didn't know much about Witherspoon. But when I saw how giddy Pete was about the pick, I felt better for sure. And it seems like he's right.

The kid is special.

 

[Rat]

I'm using stats that are applicable to both, you're the one only using stats that are applicable to only the player you're defending.

I think Witherspoon was 75% good and 25% bad before this week. Which is hard to find too much fault in considering he hadn't played a down of real football since his last game at Illinois.

My point in the entire banal argument is all the "we should have drafted Carter" honks before they even saw Witherspoon play a down of football because they saw Carter make one splash play on national TV and then did nothing for the next three quarters should maybe pump the brakes a little.

My argument is that Carter has been excellent, so yes, I'm using stats applicable to his position to defend his play at that position. Similarly, if I were examining whether Jarran Reed has been a good FA signing, I wouldn't rip on him for his lack of INTs, but I would look at advanced run-stopping numbers.