Why don't we adjust for blitzes?

[bigskydoc]

That play is so on Russ it isn't even funny. He need to read the blitz pre-snap and adjust. Even if he can't say for certain where the blitz is coming from, there is a blitz coming and he knows the route tree doesn't have any hot routes. He could audible into a hot route on the right, given how far off Carolina is playing it. Also, he had plenty of time to throw left if he puts it up just before the receiver makes the break at the ten. Worst case scenario, he could decide that there are no options and throw it out the back of he end zone.

Russ struggles with disguised blitzes, even though he has good numbers against the blitz in general. I really think the best way to get him off his game is with these disguised blitzes if you can get edge containment like Carolina does here. Even a completely fake blitz where you show the pressure, but only send four seems to get him out of his comfort zone and he makes bad plays.

-bsd

 

[MontanaHawk05]

That play is so on Russ it isn't even funny. He need to read the blitz pre-snap and adjust. Even if he can't say for certain where the blitz is coming from, there is a blitz coming and he knows the route tree doesn't have any hot routes. He could audible into a hot route on the right, given how far off Carolina is playing it.

There weren't any.

It could be that they're there and Wilson just isn't good at audibling into them, and I have no problem with that explanation, given that it's just one of many things a QB must learn and Wilson is only in his fourth year.

But it could also be that our offense is being sent into those plays without the hot route options at all. They're just not installed.

 

[themunn]

We needed to slide protection to the left. Both blitzes would have dictated that. They sent 6, we had 6 to block. We didn't slide protection, therefore Sweezy is doing a fabulous job of blocking the air while a blitzer runs free. A shorter passing game might be beneficial, but you don't necessarily need hot routes if you have as many blockers as they have rushers. If we slide protection correctly, we have a td down the seam or a big play to the split end.

You're correct on all but one thing - they only sent 5!

 

[12HawkFan]

Very simple, we don't have a quality O-line to start with, to many times defenders are in the backfield before anything else can happen and that leads to more problems than I can count.

It's something they have chosen to just live with but the reality of it is that there is not enough money to fill every position on the field with high quality talent.

You want a quality O-line, kiss the good D we have most of the time GOODBYE!

 

[seahawkfreak]

We needed to slide protection to the left. Both blitzes would have dictated that. They sent 6, we had 6 to block. We didn't slide protection, therefore Sweezy is doing a fabulous job of blocking the air while a blitzer runs free. A shorter passing game might be beneficial, but you don't necessarily need hot routes if you have as many blockers as they have rushers. If we slide protection correctly, we have a td down the seam or a big play to the split end.

You're correct on all but one thing - they only sent 5!

This is totally on Wilson. Russ has to assume the two are blitzing on left side because Kuechly dropped back. He may still come but his ears are no longer pinned back. The line was basically in, what we use to call a 50 protection, kinda like a man pass pro. 60 pass protection should have been call, like a zone pass protect. If you notice, Britt followed his man to the right and the defender ended up double covered. If Britt drops back a couple steps with an "out" block, at the very least Wilson could have got another split second to throw.

 

[vin.couve12]

Just trying to apply what you guys are saying to plays that we've been watching. On the 3rd and 9 against CAR where Russ took that sack in the red zone. Can someone explain what could have easily been done there to give him an outlet that wasn't the 15 yard out that Kearse ran?

I'm just curious how it plays out. Do we motion someone to the side of the blitz, forcing one of them to drop into coverage or give up the easy pass? Do we change Kearse's route, etc?

I don't remember the play. How many were blitzing vs. how many blockers? Did they overload one side?

There's no "hot route" there to go to.

IMO, the best way to really burn a blitz is to throw over the top of it. Essentially it's like mass displacement. You throw the ball directly where they just vacated. There is some luck involved in that though. You have to have the right play call in place to even go there OR have a QB that can call their own hot routes. On top of that, you can't really go with too many hot routes because the defense picks up the verbiage unless it's changed mid game and everyone still stays on the same page, which is obviously extremely difficult. The other problem with us throwing over top of a blitz is just that we kind of can't. RW doesn't throw unless he can clearly see and he'd have to arc the ball up a little higher to do so, which of course puts too much air underneath it. Really the only times we've done this is when we've sent Baldwin deep and RW just throws it out to a spot. We don't do that in the short game at all and if one is honest, it's perfectly reasonable as to why.

You don't necessarily have to throw over it though. We've generally gone with RB dump offs as a quicker outlet and it's fine so long as the RB makes a play and breaks a tackle or two. At times we've gone with a slant as well, but have had mixed results there.

Ideally, this is where Graham should start to come in. He's going to need to get A LOT better in his routes though. He's slow in turning for the ball repeatedly. He's also shown to be a terrible route runner. Maybe it's the fact that he's still learning the offense, but if you want him even on a simple out route he's "getting tall" just before he cuts and it's a dead giveaway that he's about to do so. People say that he doesn't need to be open to throw to him, but a lot of that is just dumb player worship. Sure, he's made a lot of plays while still covered tightly and even with people hanging on him, but you don't do that on a consistent basis....as we've seen this year....and you really shouldn't concede that he doesn't need to get open either. Hopefully we see some improvement there because RW is just a conservative QB.

As I say all this, I just saw Cassell throw over top of a Giants blitz to Witten. If Witten turns his head faster that's a touchdown even though the ball was a little high. If that's RW he pulls the ball and attempt to go around the blitzer for a passing lane.

We've got a couple issues with this subject. One is Bevell and the constantly long developing plays that he likes to call. The other is the style of play of the QB and maybe you even say...limitations of the QB.

 

[vin.couve12]

We needed to slide protection to the left. Both blitzes would have dictated that. They sent 6, we had 6 to block. We didn't slide protection, therefore Sweezy is doing a fabulous job of blocking the air while a blitzer runs free. A shorter passing game might be beneficial, but you don't necessarily need hot routes if you have as many blockers as they have rushers. If we slide protection correctly, we have a td down the seam or a big play to the split end.

You're correct on all but one thing - they only sent 5!

This is totally on Wilson. Russ has to assume the two are blitzing on left side because Kuechly dropped back. He may still come but his ears are no longer pinned back. The line was basically in, what we use to call a 50 protection, kinda like a man pass pro. 60 pass protection should have been call, like a zone pass protect. If you notice, Britt followed his man to the right and the defender ended up double covered. If Britt drops back a couple steps with an "out" block, at the very least Wilson could have got another split second to throw.

Britt has been a consummate idiot in pass protection. He always follows the man that lines up in front of him pre-snap and whether the DL is just trying to move him to open up a hole for a blitzer or whether they've run stunts at us he just mentally has not handled it at all. He doesn't often get his arse handed to him, but he hasn't even been remotely sharp enough to handle thinking on his feet.

 

[chris98251]

There are couple of things we need to consider, Unger made the line calls last year, Wilson is this year, I think the defense's are testing Wilson heavily in disguise and formations to create confusion, add our very young line not recognizing things on the fly and it's a recipe for ugliness many times.

This does fall on Bevell, he needs to help Wilson out here with as many stated the quick release hot route, I also think more Motion would make the defenses not be able to pin their ears back, we pretty much run out of our initial formation more often then not with very few shifts, defenses know what we do out of most of our formations.

 

[HawkMeat]

Most of this is on Russ; no? Coaches have shared he can change protection yet I can't recall Russ changing protection- especially with the blitz

 

[Passepartout]

Do not blame it all on Russell. As the OT and O.L. are to also shoulder some of the blame.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Just trying to apply what you guys are saying to plays that we've been watching. On the 3rd and 9 against CAR where Russ took that sack in the red zone. Can someone explain what could have easily been done there to give him an outlet that wasn't the 15 yard out that Kearse ran?

I'm just curious how it plays out. Do we motion someone to the side of the blitz, forcing one of them to drop into coverage or give up the easy pass? Do we change Kearse's route, etc?

I don't remember the play. How many were blitzing vs. how many blockers? Did they overload one side?

I'm confused about why people think there's a failure in this play design.

With five rushers and six guys in protection, you shouldn't have a hot route called for in this situation. The times you should do that is if the defense sends more guys than you keep in protection, right? That's when you take advantage of throwing hot by finding the receiver in the blitzer's vacated area. Otherwise, you trust the protection and let the play design work for you, which Seattle didn't do well with this play.

The failure was on the protection and Russell. If they slide protection left then they pick up the blitz no problem and maybe Russell feels comfortable enough to make the first down throw to Kearse on the outside (though he should have made the throw anyway).

Let's say Seattle slid protection left and the Panthers do end up sending 6 guys (like they show) by blitzing the defender guarding Jimmy. Then Jimmy becomes the hot route, because that's the vacated area, but since his guy stayed with him Jimmy has to run the called route.

Since they only send 5, the area on the field to exploit goes back to where the blitz came from, which is the left side. The defender is playing deep 3rds, by himself. The best route to gain the first down is exactly what Kearse was running.

Russell just didn't make the play on a call that should have beat the Panther's blitz. At least that's how I see it.

 

[blkhwk]

Some pre-snap motion would also help determine where the pressure is coming from.

Jackson needed to be the "hot" receiver in the flat...... dump the ball over the blitzers, Fred is off to the races.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Some pre-snap motion would also help determine where the pressure is coming from.

Jackson needed to be the "hot" receiver in the flat...... dump the ball over the blitzers, Fred is off to the races.

I have to disagree. You usually don't have a hot route for the running back once you put him into the protection scheme for the play.

Thinking Jackson needs to be the hot receiver is more hindsight is 20-20 because we know they blitzed two guys from the left side. Pre-snap, without a strong idea where the blitz is coming from or how many, you keep the RB in protection so he can slide protect left or right and pick up whatever defender gets through.

The only way that works with Jackson maybe is that they blitz both guys on the left side (like they did). Otherwise, if either the left corner or linebacker drop into coverage instead of blitzing then Jackson is running a covered route while Wilson gets easily sacked.

Heck, even the dump off pass might not work here. Kuchley is spying either Wilson or Jackson (or both) on the play. If Jackson releases right away there's no saying Kuchley doesn't keep on him and make the tackle before the first down.

The play call was perfect to beat this blitz if Wilson and the O-line slide protection left and Wilson recognizes where the weakness in coverage is (Kearse 1-on-1 vs the safety in deep coverage)

 

[Scottemojo]

@ recon.
How do you call a line slide when one of the guys threatening blitz is over the center, then backs into coverage at the snap?
It is a great blitz by Carolina, and calling it 5 on 6 is a bit unfair, when it is really a 3 on two blitz from the left side.

Forget the hot route. Yeah, the play looks bad because the middle of the field is vacant, but lets forget that. the actual blitz may have been disguised, the fact that a blitz was likely was not. Yet the routes are all late breaking, a variance of 4 go. If you want a QB to be careful with the ball, and our staff really does, he can't let it fly until he knows what the safety is doing. The safety is providing bracket coverage on Graham, leaving Russ a single anticipation throw at the back of the endzone to the right side. With a blitz speeding the play clock up, the two redline routes are not options, Russ will not get to those reads, and as you watch that play over and over, how is Russ supposed to read 4 routes that seem to present as targets nearly simultaneously anyway?


As a play design, it is a poor marriage of routes that take time with a line that gives little time. It asks two receivers to win a one on one on the redlines, with no help, asks the QB to wait to see if the safety is over the top of Graham breaking to the post, and presents the QB with no short option if he doesn't.

I will put it another way. On a play where 7 potential rushers identified themselves, it would appear that the primary read does not present as a target for 15 or more yards. the secondary read to the right would be a throw to the back of the endzone. The time to make a third or fourth read to the sidelines was never going to exist.

Russ really has one play. He has to see a safety look at Graham, then throw to the WR to the right of Graham at the back of the endzone when that WR is about 8 yards off the LOS.

Russ gets blamed for holding the ball, but this play requires him to. And this is where the observations that Seattle's route designs are simplistic come from.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Hugh Millen's been beating this drum for weeks.

He's blaming Russell for a lot of the sacks because he's not changing the protection calls and/or plays at the line like good QB's do.

Russell's in his 4th year, so IMO it's not a recognition problem, it's a Russell sees the blitz, but still doesn't change pass pro because he thinks he can avoid the sack and make a big play downfield with one on one coverage BECAUSE of the blitz.

Sometimes he's right, but sometimes he's wrong and still gets sacked.

 

[Hawks46]

Hugh Millen's been beating this drum for weeks.

He's blaming Russell for a lot of the sacks because he's not changing the protection calls and/or plays at the line like good QB's do.

Russell's in his 4th year, so IMO it's not a recognition problem, it's a Russell sees the blitz, but still doesn't change pass pro because he thinks he can avoid the sack and make a big play downfield with one on one coverage BECAUSE of the blitz.

Sometimes he's right, but sometimes he's wrong and still gets sacked.

This is a possibility, but the problem I have with this logic is that it's been publicly stated that Wilson hasn't made the line calls before this year and that it was the Center's responsibility.

Now, as a QB in your 4th year you should still be able to recognize these plays and make the correct call, Wilson has never done it. So, it's an extra step he hasn't ever had to do, and there's looking to be some growing pains.

That said, I'd at least like to see some progression on the issue. You could be right and Wilson could just be stubborn about it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Hugh Millen's been beating this drum for weeks.

He's blaming Russell for a lot of the sacks because he's not changing the protection calls and/or plays at the line like good QB's do.

Russell's in his 4th year, so IMO it's not a recognition problem, it's a Russell sees the blitz, but still doesn't change pass pro because he thinks he can avoid the sack and make a big play downfield with one on one coverage BECAUSE of the blitz.

Sometimes he's right, but sometimes he's wrong and still gets sacked.

This is a possibility, but the problem I have with this logic is that it's been publicly stated that Wilson hasn't made the line calls before this year and that it was the Center's responsibility.

Now, as a QB in your 4th year you should still be able to recognize these plays and make the correct call, Wilson has never done it. So, it's an extra step he hasn't ever had to do, and there's looking to be some growing pains.

That said, I'd at least like to see some progression on the issue. You could be right and Wilson could just be stubborn about it.

You're right, it may very well be Russell's not doing well taking over the line calls with Unger gone.

But I just have a hard time believing that a player that's as smart and spends as much time preparing and watching tape as Russell is still having a hard time recognizing what the defense is doing.

That's why I'm leaning more towards he does recognize it, but still isn't changing the play because he's confident in his athletic ability to buy enough time for the called play to still work.

 

[SirTed]

Russell's biggest weakness is pre-snap reads. It's not whether or not he struggles against the blitz. I know that sounds like the same thing, but they are not. They're related. Russell is a great athlete, and he can sometimes beat free rushers, and make plays. He just struggles is identifying where those rushers are coming from.


Also, and I think this is important - I think the league is getting smarter about defending / rushing / blitzing Russell. They're sending guys off the edge more, and having their D-line keep their rush integrity.

I'm not here to say he sucks or anything like that, but he does need to improve in this area, DRAMATICALLY.