Who’s our starting center game one?

[Maelstrom787]

Not really. You have a dead average starting center in Pocic and a guy who has constantly pushed him and may have even won in camp regardless in Fuller, along with developmental Haynes and emergency (but very good) option in Lewis.

WR3 on the other hand? Swain. And then zip, at a position that needs a lot more depth than center, at which C1 plays 100% of the snaps. It was a bigger need than is being acknowledged.

Really hard for me to get on board with center being a bigger need at the time than depth at WR. Maybe if we were back in 2000 and the I-form was still a supreme option.

Pocic may be average, but he and Haynes are made of glass and can't be counted on to play when needed. Doubtful that improves with age.

Pocic is average in pass protection, but sub par run blocking.

Corbin Smith:

The team already tried to replace/aggressively push Pocic by signing B.J. Finney during last year's free agency period. In the end, Pocic won the job after Finney showed up to camp out of shape.

Pocic is a solid center. However, his weaknesses are consistent and cap certain elements of the offense. For instance: he struggles one-on-one in pass protection or in the run game, which could really frustrate Waldron as he tries to get his center to reach block dudes one-on-one on outside zone runs.

Most were hoping to upgrade Center either in free agency or the draft, but once again it was neglected. The Adams trade likely the cause.

Without Eskridge, they would've likely signed one of the many cheap free agents to fill that role to compete with the rest of the young guys on the roster. Even Wilson's eskimo brother Golden Tate is still available.

But if Eskridge turns into Tyreek Hill, all will be forgiven

None of this does anything to convince me that center was realistically a bigger need than WR3. Also, this reads like you think that WR3 was easy to solve via FA, but C wasn't. There were plenty of pretty average centers available on the market just like there are receivers. Hell, Reiter is STILL available.

 

[pittpnthrs]

None of this does anything to convince me that center was realistically a bigger need than WR3. Also, this reads like you think that WR3 was easy to solve via FA, but C wasn't. There were plenty of pretty average centers available on the market just like there are receivers. Hell, Reiter is STILL available.

I know we've already went round and round on this Mael, but I think I need to better explain myself. I think everyone agrees that Pocic is average at the center position. I think everyone will agree that David Moore was average at the 3rd WR spot. Where I think we are at a crossroads is that Moores numbers were on par with pretty much the rest of the NFL at his position. Pocic ranks around average at his. The issue is that the 3rd WR spot is pretty much the last option on most offensive plays during a game. The #1 and #2 WRs, the TEs, and the RBs are all more coveted during most plays. The center doesnt have those luxuries. Yes, there are other linemen, but he has to block the guy ahead of him and protect the QB every play. It only makes sense to me that one would want the best player available at that position as it seems to be of more importance than a position that is mainly a 5th option on most plays.

Thats my take and i'll try to shut up about it now as whats done is done already. Peace.

 

[AgentDib]

Pocic is a solid center. However, his weaknesses are consistent and cap certain elements of the offense. For instance: he struggles one-on-one in pass protection or in the run game, which could really frustrate Waldron as he tries to get his center to reach block dudes one-on-one on outside zone runs.

If you're going to post somebody else's opinion as an argument then you are at least partly responsible for it, and it's not clear from this that Corbin fundamentally understands what he's going on about. Pocic's length creates leverage issues in a power running scheme but becomes an asset in a zone stretch scheme where reach is a plus. Furthermore, the Rams center was almost never involved in one on one pass protection last season. On paper the scheme should be a better fit for Pocic.

 

[massari]

it's not clear from this that Corbin fundamentally understands what he's going on about. Pocic's length creates leverage issues in a power running scheme but becomes an asset in a zone stretch scheme where reach is a plus. Furthermore, the Rams center was almost never involved in one on one pass protection last season. On paper the scheme should be a better fit for Pocic.

Not sure what you're getting at here. He's simply giving a couple of flaws in Pocic's game. 100% of the plays aren't going to be zone.

Furthermore, the Rams center was almost never involved in one on one pass protection last season. On paper the scheme should be a better fit for Pocic.

Not sure what you're on about here either. Do you have any numbers, because I'm seeing Austin Blythe in plenty of 1v1 from last season.

 

[massari]

None of this does anything to convince me that center was realistically a bigger need than WR3. Also, this reads like you think that WR3 was easy to solve via FA, but C wasn't. There were plenty of pretty average centers available on the market just like there are receivers. Hell, Reiter is STILL available.

What that Pocic is average in pass pro, sucks at run blocking, and is a huge injury risk? WR3 more important than starting Center, especially when you have one of the best duos in the league?

"Those who know football know the game is won or lost in the trenches." Maelstrom is a filthy casual confirmed!

But yes, hopefully they can sign Reiter to compete with Pocic and add depth if/when Pocic misses time.

 

[BASF]

My expectation of how this will go this season is something us old timers experienced in '04. Season after season most of us complained about Chris Gray not being good enough to play any longer. We had a revolving door at RT for almost every one of those seasons but then we drafted Sean Locklear. Gray no longer had to cheat to the RT side to help and as a result he showed that he was still good. He was still a year or two away from no longer being able to play, but you could see how having a can next to him had brought down his play for years.

Pocic's can last year was Iupati (who was one year past when he should have retired) and he will show that he is much better than his play last year.

 

[A-Dog]

Seahawks now have $13M in cap space remaining for 2021.

Pocic has some real limitations and his play has ranged from abysmal to adequate. His ceiling is as an average center who struggles 1v1. He's on a 1-year deal and is currently injured - health has been a problem for him. To be fair he did have his best year last year after moving from OG. Regardless, clearly the team is not convinced by Pocic since he only got a one year deal.

The staff seem to be high on Kyle Fuller, but he hasn't done anything on the field yet to show he can be even an adequate starter. In very limited snaps his PFF grade was 30.1 last year.

What is odd to me is the Austin Reiter situation. The guy started in two straight superbowls, allowed zero sacks last season, has a significantly better PFF grade than Pocic, played in a scheme similar to Waldron's, and hasn't missed a game due to injury in four years. He's a 29 year-old free agent. It's odd that he's still a FA in general - so maybe there are factors that the league knows about but we don't (his asking price perhaps) - but it's odd that we aren't even mentioned as one of the teams talking to him. We have the cap space and the need.

Assuming Brown doesn't hold out, aside from CB this is the most worrying position on the team for me.

 

[Maelstrom787]

None of this does anything to convince me that center was realistically a bigger need than WR3. Also, this reads like you think that WR3 was easy to solve via FA, but C wasn't. There were plenty of pretty average centers available on the market just like there are receivers. Hell, Reiter is STILL available.

What that Pocic is average in pass pro, sucks at run blocking, and is a huge injury risk? WR3 more important than starting Center, especially when you have one of the best duos in the league?

"Those who know football know the game is won or lost in the trenches." Maelstrom is a filthy casual confirmed!

But yes, hopefully they can sign Reiter to compete with Pocic and add depth if/when Pocic misses time.

Misrepresentation of my argument regarding WR3 being more important than starting center. Positional value isn't the issue here, personnel need is.

 

[kf3339]

Has anyone watched the first Chiefs games with Creed starting as the OC. He sure looks awfully good as a starting rookie OC. Just saying.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Has anyone watched the first Chiefs games with Creed starting as the OC. He sure looks awfully good as a starting rookie OC. Just saying.

Not a shock to me. The Chiefs are great at developing linemen. Austin Reiter was a nobody before going down to KC, and they turned him into an above-average player. Creed was a good prospect, I thought he was worth a late first.

 

[Maelstrom787]

He’s hurt AGAIN. Do you think he will be ready and make it thru an entire season?

If not, they're high on Fuller and Lewis proved a decent replacement in his single game of action last year.

If you're just randomly assuming a rookie would slot in and do any better, especially a late second rounder, then I'm not sure you understand the reality of the NFL. Far from a sure thing.

According to most stats .. no Fuller was not a decent replacement.. and Procic did not do that well. Its one of the reasons we get interior rushed so often.

You made assumptions on his basic post while ignoring facts. I'm not sure YOU understand the reality of the NFL.

I totally missed this reply, but part of my post that you're replying to was responding to the original post as well about the drafting thing. No assumptions were made, it's a point-blank response to the obvious implication of the original post.

Furthermore, I didn't claim that Fuller was a decent replacement. Just that the coaching staff seems high on him. Lewis was who I singled out as a decent replacement based on his single game as a center with no practice at the spot.

Maybe read a bit more carefully next time before making very poor and inaccurate replies.

https://classroom.synonym.com/improve-r ... -4836.html

 

[hoxrox]

Sounds like it will be Kyle Fuller for now by default.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ky ... hp&pc=U531