Uncharted Territory

[Slick]

I've stated it before that I have been a diehard since 1976. I saw a lot of baaaaaaaaaaaaaad football over the years. I endured through the putrid 90's, Behring, all of it. I have paid my dues to choose not to watch a game if I feel it's only going to serve me 3 hours of grief, elevated blood pressure, anger and resentment.

Nah, I'm good now. No skin off my back if I have to turn the channel after one quarter. I may not like that I need to do that, but I do need to do that these days for my sanity and health.

It's just entertainment, right? And when it's not entertaining me it's time to turn the channel until next time.

I agree. Devoted fan during the 90s who had the following thoughts (showing how low things were):

• Duane Bickett is the linebacker of the future!!!
• Sean Dawkins (RIP) is the missing piece!!!
• Hey!!! Look!!! Joe Theismann's quote on "The Seahawks will win the AFC West" is front/center in our season ticket book. It's gonna happen!! John Friesz is the man!!!
• Wait, what? Behring's son is the gm? Nah......no really?
• What's that "white slug" looking-thing that showed up in the mid 90s nursing off the Kingdome? (Actually it was the pre-cursor of the "Events Center" of today).
• Rick "Bootin" Tuten. Probably bench-presses the most weight of anyone on the team. Mullet is on point too.
• Man!!! Todd Christensen (RIP) is color-commentating Seahaws vs. the Raiders again? Turn off the sound......sigh.

I have a son now and watching the Seahawks is mostly background but I love them win or lose.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Having said that, I do believe the Seahawks defense is capable of playing better than what we are seeing. Maybe I’m delusional.

I think we're finding out that Nwosu was the best player on our defense, and without him the D-line is struggling.

Two aging safeties on the downside, two young CB's, but Woolen seems to have regressed this year. Two of the worst coverage LB's in the league which teams are abusing on a weekly basis.........and a small D-line that other offensive lines are pushing around with not enough depth to not get run over in 2nd halves of games.

MOST importantly, a coaching staff that's not helping any of these units out schematically. Just sitting in easily recognized base defenses getting bitch slapped.

 

[AROS]

But I disagree that we have 'this much talent.' IMO we have average talent, especially in the trenches and at quarterback.

When you have a team with:

DK, Lockett, JSN as your trio of receivers...
A QB who won Comeback Player of the Year last season...
A bruising Charb at RB (and K9 when healthy)...
Solid TEs...
Woolen, Spoon, Brown, Jackson, etc as your DBs
Diggs and Adams (regardless of what fans think, they are talented players)...

And so on, yes I do think this is a team with "this much talent". For reasons perhaps of scheme, injuries, coaching, etc...They are not performing at a consistent level as we would like them to be but this is a team with talent that is sadly underperforming.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

When you have a team with:

DK, Lockett, JSN as your trio of receivers...
A QB who won Comeback Player of the Year last season...
A bruising Charb at RB (and K9 when healthy)...
Solid TEs...
Woolen, Spoon, Brown, Jackson, etc as your DBs
Diggs and Adams (regardless of what fans think, they are talented players)...

And so on, yes I do think this is a team with "this much talent". For reasons perhaps of scheme, injuries, coaching, etc...They are not performing at a consistent level as we would like them to be but this is a team with talent that is sadly underperforming.

You're naming a bunch of players who probably aren't even going to be on the team next year.

No way in hell we're keeping Diggs or Adams at their 2024 salaries. Same goes for two of the three TE's, Fant and Dissly are gone.........and if this team doesn't miraculously turn it around, make the playoffs and Geno plays much better down the stretch? You're probably not seeing him here next year either at a 31M cap hit.

There is plenty of young talent to begin another rebuild under another coach and/or GM, that I agree with. But this idea that there's lots and lots of talent? Hard to see that in 2024.

This WAS the year for Pete and John to prove to ownership that they can still be trusted to rebuild another SB contender......and they're failing miserably. If you can't compete better than this with two straight off seasons with this much high draft capital? It's time man, it's time.

 

[AROS]

You're naming a bunch of players who probably aren't even going to be on the team next year.

No way in hell we're keeping Diggs or Adams at their 2024 salaries. Same goes for two of the three TE's, Fant and Dissly are gone.........and if this team doesn't miraculously turn it around, make the playoffs and Geno plays much better down the stretch? You're probably not seeing him here next year either at a 31M cap hit.

There is plenty of young talent to begin another rebuild under another coach and/or GM, that I agree with. But this idea that there's lots and lots of talent? Hard to see that in 2024.

This WAS the year for Pete and John to prove to ownership that they can still be trusted to rebuild another SB contender......and they're failing miserably. If you can't compete better than this with two straight off seasons with this much high draft capital? It's time man, it's time.

Yes agreed. However, was speaking of the talent we do have this year, not how many will not be here in 2024.

 

[RiverDog]

When you have a team with:

DK, Lockett, JSN as your trio of receivers...
A QB who won Comeback Player of the Year last season...
A bruising Charb at RB (and K9 when healthy)...
Solid TEs...
Woolen, Spoon, Brown, Jackson, etc as your DBs
Diggs and Adams (regardless of what fans think, they are talented players)...

And so on, yes I do think this is a team with "this much talent". For reasons perhaps of scheme, injuries, coaching, etc...They are not performing at a consistent level as we would like them to be but this is a team with talent that is sadly underperforming.

There are lots of great receiving corps, including Tyreek Hill and Jaylon Waddle, Brandon Aiyuk and Deebo Samuel, and AJ Brown and DeVonte Smith. I'd call our receiving corps strong or above average, but neither Lockett or DK will make the Pro Bowl.

Our tight ends are solid, but none will make the Pro Bowl, not with guys like Kelce and Kittle setting the standard.

Spoon is the only standout in our secondary whom I'd call 'great.' Woolen has regressed, supposedly benched for sloppy tackling. And Quandre Diggs? Don't make me laugh. PFF graded him out at #77. Adams is a one trick pony whose supposed strong suit is rushing the passer, but he has yet to get even a partial sack this season. Both our safeties are has beens. Derick Hall has struggled mightily.

Geno had a good run for the first 10-12 games last year. Ever since then, he's been very pedestrian, average at best. He's nothing more than a bridge QB.

Our running backs are OK, but there isn't a Derrick Henry or Christain McCaffery in either of them. They're clearly 2nd tier.

It's a matter of opinion, but mine is that this team is mostly devoid of talent, at least where it counts most, in the trenches.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's a matter of opinion, but mine is that this team is mostly devoid of talent, at least where it counts most, in the trenches.

This is especially true when all you run is unimaginative easily defended base schemes on both sides of the ball.

 

[AROS]

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your sentiments, but I feel a little more optimistic about our talent than you do and that's okay.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your sentiments, but I feel a little more optimistic about our talent than you do and that's okay.

I agree that we have some good young talent. I just am not as optimistic as you in said young talent, when it'll be the same coaches for the next two 1/2 seasons wasting the afore mentioned young talent.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

This team does have talent, that's why everyone is upset they're not winning. IMO it's all about coaching. In Pete's early years he did not have talented players but got the most out of them. And that's the problem now. We are not getting the most out of our players like before. = COACHING

 

[GemCity]

Man…very appreciative of PC and what he’s done. But, it’s time.

I’m a fan of JS but, there’s been some questionable moves on that end as well.

I’m a bit weary of trading valuable picks for aging veterans…and this group (management) has more than their share of the years.

 

[RiverDog]

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your sentiments, but I feel a little more optimistic about our talent than you do and that's okay.

IMO the big problem is that our good, young talent is in the wrong places. We're weak up the middle. Our offensive line, particularly the interior OL, is very weak. For what we're paying them, our safeties are dismal, and even if their play this season is an anomaly, Diggs turns 31 next month, Adams is not likely to be on the roster next season. Our QB is 33 years old and average at best with no QBOTF on the horizon.

We do have some good but not great young talent at WR, RB, and CB (exception being 'Spoon, who's been outstanding). We have an edge rusher in Boye Mafe who has shown a lot of potential. Brooks has been OK, Taylor horrible. Derick Hall has struggled. Our OT's, maybe. For as high as we selected him, Cross has been a bit of a disappointment. The jury is still out on Lucas. Our guards and center are horrible. Tight ends are above average but underutilized.

I don't think our talent is exceptional, nor do I think we're in the bottom 1/4. As Bill Parcells once said, you are what your record says you are: Mediocre.

 

[xray]

The Hawks could realistically lose 5 in a row .

 

[AROS]

IMO the big problem is that our good, young talent is in the wrong places. We're weak up the middle. Our offensive line, particularly the interior OL, is very weak. For what we're paying them, our safeties are dismal, and even if their play this season is an anomaly, Diggs turns 31 next month, Adams is not likely to be on the roster next season. Our QB is 33 years old and average at best with no QBOTF on the horizon.

We do have some good but not great young talent at WR, RB, and CB (exception being 'Spoon, who's been outstanding). We have an edge rusher in Boye Mafe who has shown a lot of potential. Brooks has been OK, Taylor horrible. Derick Hall has struggled. Our OT's, maybe. For as high as we selected him, Cross has been a bit of a disappointment. The jury is still out on Lucas. Our guards and center are horrible. Tight ends are above average but underutilized.

I don't think our talent is exceptional, nor do I think we're in the bottom 1/4. As Bill Parcells once said, you are what your record says you are: Mediocre.

It's hard to argue those points. Diggs is definitely having a down year, Adams, like you said, is likely off the roster next year. I do believe part of his issue right now is that he is playing tentative because he's in that dangerous mental place where he is afraid of getting hurt again. Not good for him, not good for us.

Speaking of, I wonder if there's not a little of that going on with Woolen this year. I have a hard time believing he's suddenly just not the player we thought he was. I think injury (or the threat of getting re-injured) is hampering his play this season.

I wanted to love Geno. I do love many of his character attributes and when he's on, he's a Top 10 QB. Unfortunately I think we've already seen his ceiling and that was last year. This year is likely more of "who he is". I would be thrilled if we drafted Penix or Nix in April.

If ever used correctly, I think JSN will be one of the top WR's in the league. DK's a dichotomy. Lockett still has plenty of tread left and remains one of the most underrated WR's in the league. We all know what Spoon is capable of and will be.

Cross I think is a solid LT but I agree, he's been a bit of a disappointment based on where we drafted him. But a lot of teams would be happy with a "solid" LT. Lucas is a brawler but he needs to stay healthy. Agree on the interior OL and TE utilization.

Parcells was largely correct. There's always some outliers but you gotta own your record, good, bad or ugly.

 

[xray]

None of us are qualified to really know what's wrong with the team ; so to make things simple , let's remember what Bill Parcells said many years ago..." You are what your record says you are " .

 

[RiverDog]

It's hard to argue those points. Diggs is definitely having a down year, Adams, like you said, is likely off the roster next year. I do believe part of his issue right now is that he is playing tentative because he's in that dangerous mental place where he is afraid of getting hurt again. Not good for him, not good for us.

Speaking of, I wonder if there's not a little of that going on with Woolen this year. I have a hard time believing he's suddenly just not the player we thought he was. I think injury (or the threat of getting re-injured) is hampering his play this season.

I wanted to love Geno. I do love many of his character attributes and when he's on, he's a Top 10 QB. Unfortunately I think we've already seen his ceiling and that was last year. This year is likely more of "who he is". I would be thrilled if we drafted Penix or Nix in April.

If ever used correctly, I think JSN will be one of the top WR's in the league. DK's a dichotomy. Lockett still has plenty of tread left and remains one of the most underrated WR's in the league. We all know what Spoon is capable of and will be.

Cross I think is a solid LT but I agree, he's been a bit of a disappointment based on where we drafted him. But a lot of teams would be happy with a "solid" LT. Lucas is a brawler but he needs to stay healthy. Agree on the interior OL and TE utilization.

Parcells was largely correct. There's always some outliers but you gotta own your record, good, bad or ugly.

I mostly agree.

I'm not sure what's going on with Woolen. It's either a sophomore slump or he just isn't the player we thought he'd be. Maybe other teams are picking on him, staying away from Witherspoon. I dunno.

I don't 'love' Geno at all. He lost me with his behavior in that DUI arrest, which for the life of me, I don't know how it got dismissed. I guess it's the new post George Floyd paradigm. As far as our QBOTF goes, I haven't watched enough college ball to venture an informed opinion. Hopefully, they give JS a free hand in selecting our next guy as he seems to have a pretty good eye for QB's.

IMO the best we can hope for in our OT's is that they become solid starters. I don't see either one of them being Pro Bowl quality. But I'm admittedly a little bias in that regard as I expect every OT to be the next Walter Jones. Sort of like watching Steve Largent for 15 or so years spoiled me as I expect my receivers to catch the frigging ball.

As far as JSN goes, I don't see him as a #1 receiver like an AJ Brown or Justin Jefferson. Unless we want to pattern an offense like Miami has with Tyreek Hill, I can't see him doing much more than be a very good underneath/slot receiver, the heir apparent to Lockett's eventual retirement. That part of my opinion is admittedly a little biased, too, as I really wanted to draft a center at that slot. We've placed way too much emphasis on wide receivers and running backs in our past 3 or so drafts.

I see us as a good 2-3 years away from being competitive again. I just don't think the talent is there yet. We've made too many bad trades/signings/draft picks over the past 6-8 years, and the current roster shows it. And as others have pointed out, we don't have the creativity to overcome those deficiencies.

 

[Ostatehawk]

As with Agent Mulder, is Pete being slowly moved to a succession of new offices that are getting closer to the exit to the building?

"We're going to go ahead and move you into storage room B."

 

[hawkfan68]

The Seahawks had some games that resulted in "unexpected" losses (i.e. Rams games). I hope this Sunday's game and next week's game vs Eagles which in my mind are currently in the "expected" loss state turn out to be unexpected wins.

 

[morgulon1]

I think you're correct. We've had a number of 3 game losing streaks and a couple of 4 out of 5 where we've lost, but never one where we lost 4 in a row. But in all fairness, this is a very unusual schedule where we face 4 teams in a row that are ranked in the top 5-7 of most power rankings.

But I disagree that we have 'this much talent.' IMO we have average talent, especially in the trenches and at quarterback.

Agreed , but could I add that Seattle's 40MM safety tandem are average at best.

 

[morgulon1]

The Seahawks had some games that resulted in "unexpected" losses (i.e. Rams games). I hope this Sundays game and next week's game vs Eagles which in my mind are currently in the "expected" loss state turn out to be an unexpected wins.

You're more optimistic than me. At this point, wins are just losing draft position for this team . Hell, they'd squander it anyway on another undersized receiver
Who will tear an ACL in training camp.