The Cold Hard Reality of The Seahawks Going Forward

[IndyHawk]

I think 1 lesson from watching Brady last night that would serve Wilson well is -Get rid of the ball in 2.1 seconds..It's not always the off lines fault in this case when he holds too long..He has a nice big target in Matthews going foward and PR will be healthy next year ..We will probaly draft another wr so at what point will"he doesn't have wr's"stop being an excuse?
Don't get me wrong I love having RW but to pay him 22 million that hurts us pretty good on keeping all our key guys..I have to lean towards SeaChase and SpinMaster when it comes to making a case on why we have to pay 22 million..Brady doesn't even get that..He is going to be paid but it has to be less than 22..A few less..

 

[AirStrike]

The only thing I agree with you on is on Lynch, you give him 3 years absolute max. Anyone who disagrees with the fact that backs break down after 30 are uneducated. It happens to all of them, and when they fall off, they fall off fast and hard.

The rest of your points are laughable. Wilson not worth 20 million? That is absurd. Do you see how much the clowns in Santa Clara gave that freak show quarterback?

 

[wizard1183]

If you don't think Russ is not worth whatever the hell he gets, then you're out of your god damn mind.

How many QBs have taken their team to multiple Super Bowls and the playoffs every year in a tough division? Russ and only Russ.

You're over thinking this like Bevell

RW WILL get paid. But NOT because he took his team to 2 SBs. :mrgreen: Because he is the QB of the team (which in the NFL is the highest paid position) is the reason he'll get paid. Anyone who thinks RW made the Seahawks successful is purely delusional. I've stated in multiple posts, M. Lynch is who got that team its success OFFENSIVELY. Pure and simple. RW is just icing on the cake. Scam Newton, RG III, Eli Manning, PEYTON MANNING right now, Dalton, basically an avg QB will give you the same success RW gives the Seawhawks because its a RUN FIRST offense with a stout D. You put an avg RB on the roster and force RW to be it's successor, and I assure you, the success will drop tremendously. They dont call him BESTMODE for nothing. He IS the Seahawks leader. Certainly not speeches, but for productivity? There is NO ONE else.

 

[bostonhardo]

It is not time for over reaction theater in the 12th man nation. But it is time to realize a few truths that many of our fellow fans don't want to admit.

#1 Russell Wilson is not worth 20 + million a year
Take it from a former Rams fan.

This^ is where I stopped reading the Post. Find another bandwagon to jump on. I am sure the pats have room on theirs.

No thanks

 

[blkhwk]

1. Would be nice if RW's contract is in the 14-15 range, but doubtful. Plan on 20-22 hope its less.

2. The D-line was never at full strength this season. Guys who were counted on to play major roles but were injured all or part of the season: J Williams, Scruggs, Marsh, Mebane, Hill (more than once). That is the majority of the rotation. At times yesterday there were tackles playing side by side who weren't in training camp, maybe not on the team until after halloween. Health alone gets this group back up to speed. Would be great to have a Cameron Wake type DE, but those guys aren't out walking the streets!

3. B Max: I wouldn't break the bank on him either. Simon was awful yesterday and was earlier when called upon mid-game. IIRC he did get a couple of starts and played well, may be a preparation thing (maturity) with him. I don't see a big contract from the 'Hawks for BMax.

4. Marshawn is a tough one. 29 y/o, chronic back issue, taken a beating. Anyone remember how old Alexander was when he was given the big extension? A heavy front loaded 3 yr extension for #24 is my guess.

 

[SonicHawk]

The defense didn't get them to the Super Bowl, it helped, it was amazing -- but the defense isn't the only thing that needs to play to win 12 games two seasons in a row.

Some of you are genuinely attempting to be smarter than you are. QBs are hard to come by, they are expensive when they succeed -- that's a reality for every single NFL team. Just be glad we don't have Andy Dalton, the perpetual 10-6 QB.

 

[Mike 4G]

My top things to move forward are:
1. Extend Wilson and Lynch
2. Extend Wagner
3. Get a FA WR or Two
4. Draft for both lines as a priority.

Just my 2 cents

 

[SirTed]

I don't hate the OP's point at all. I don't agree with every word, but here we go:

1. RW - This is a tough one because he definitely deserves to get paid. But I'm not sure this team can sustain if he's getting $20+ mil a year.

2. Biggest disagreement is on the DL. Although I don't think anyone would argue that they're more talented this year than last. I think they'll be ok though. Injuries killed us here this season. Meebs, Hill, and Avril in the SB. Ouch. I'd love the chance to pick up an undervalued player or two in FA or the draft, though.

3. Maxwell talk - Its interesting that I've heard that the Hawks would like to retain him. He's obviously good, and much better than any depth we currently have. I never imagined we COULD keep him though. If they decided to keep him, I wouldn't be opposed at all. Our whole defensive backfield locked up and staying together? I'm on board.

4. Marshawn. Pay him. It's arguably irrational and I don't care. Even if every stat in the book tells you that RB's his age (and especially considering his style) are about to fall off a cliff. I. Do. Not. Care. He's absolutely earned the $. He's the soul of our team. He's our best offensive player, and EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON THE TEAM IS WATCHING. They all want to see him get paid, and it's important that they see the organization take care of their own guys. Even if you're "losing money" on Lynch in 2 years, it's worth it. Do it.

 

[MVP53]

If you don't think Russ is not worth whatever the hell he gets, then you're out of your god damn mind.

How many QBs have taken their team to multiple Super Bowls and the playoffs every year in a tough division? Russ and only Russ.

You're over thinking this like Bevell

RW WILL get paid. But NOT because he took his team to 2 SBs. :mrgreen: Because he is the QB of the team (which in the NFL is the highest paid position) is the reason he'll get paid. Anyone who thinks RW made the Seahawks successful is purely delusional. I've stated in multiple posts, M. Lynch is who got that team its success OFFENSIVELY. Pure and simple. RW is just icing on the cake. Scam Newton, RG III, Eli Manning, PEYTON MANNING right now, Dalton, basically an avg QB will give you the same success RW gives the Seawhawks because its a RUN FIRST offense with a stout D. You put an avg RB on the roster and force RW to be it's successor, and I assure you, the success will drop tremendously. They dont call him BESTMODE for nothing. He IS the Seahawks leader. Certainly not speeches, but for productivity? There is NO ONE else.

You're speaking in absolutes. It's not ONE player that got the Hawks to the SB. They probably don't get there without Lynch. They probably don't get there without Wilson. Same could be said for Earl, Kam, Sherm, Wagner & Bennett.

You HAVE to resign RW. There is really no other choice.

 

[byau]

#1 Russell Wilson is not worth 20 + million a year

Disagree.

Russell is a keeper. His first three years

1) a team that was one you didn't want to meet in the playoffs, you could see them making a very deep run
2) won the SB
3) despite all the stuff that went on, always within a score to win, INCLUDING the SB

#2 The Defensive Line is in need of a serious influx of talent

Disagree.

We have a pretty good D-line. One of our best players, Mebane, goes out - and we are STILL locking folks down. Jordan Hill goes out. And we still almost win an SB. Influx of talent, sure, not a serious overhaul. I think John and Pete keep doing what they're doing.

#3 Byron Maxwell is not worth the money he will get on the open market

Remains to be seen what someone will pay him. He is much better at the end of the season than he was at the beginning. He holds his own with the three all-pros...THREE ALL-PROS.

#4 Winning Teams Don't Pay 29 Year Old RB's

Disagree.

Traditionally yes, but there are exceptions to the rule. Marshawn is a beast and he's super coachable. And he's a super team player. It's a rare combination and I think he's good for two more years no problem if he wants to be.

 

[kearly]

Good topic and discussion.

#1 Russell Wilson is not worth 20 + million a year

If there were such a thing as WAR (wins above replacement) in football, a stat that accurately isolated a players value to his team, then Wilson would probably be something like a +4 or +5 win player. Lynch is probably worth a couple wins. Earl might be worth a couple wins. Sherman might be worth a couple wins. We can't prove it with a stat, but everyone knows that losing Wilson would cost the team far more than losing any other player.

In baseball, a players contract value is mathematically tied to how many wins he adds to the team. In the NFL, it's a bit more willy nilly with guys like Sherman earning more than double what Lynch made, despite helping the team less. Earl is more valuable than Sherman, but makes 40% less.

If NFL teams paid players exactly what they were worth in the win column, Wilson's real value to the team would probably be something like 40% of the Seahawks salary cap. But because nobody wants to pay QB's such insane money, top QBs usually end up getting deals for about 15-20% of their team's cap number. Unless you are a QB that provides close to zero value (Dalton), it's never a bad thing to pay your QB. Especially since replacing a QB is the hardest thing to do in all of sports.

Wilson will not be a relative value at 22+ million, compared to Rodgers. But it's still a good value for the win total Wilson adds to the team. People also have to remember that we are comparing Wilson's contract to QBs who are in their 30s. When you compare Wilson to his 20-something peers, you're looking at 20+ million for Dalton, Kaep, Newton, and Luck. Compare it to those guys who are in Wilson's generation and it's not a bad contract at all.

#2 The Defensive Line is in need of a serious influx of talent

I have had similar feelings the last few months. For as much as we talk about interior pressure, I think what this team really needs is an ace DE to pair with Bennett. Avril isn't bad, but IMO he is a placeholder. He is the Tjack of pass rushers.

I think when Seattle is totally healthy, their 3rd down and situational pass rush will be good enough as is. But in games where we have to respect the RB, it's been a struggle to get 4 man pressure because we lack that elite difference maker on the edge.

#3 Byron Maxwell is not worth the money he will get on the open market

I kinda/sorta disagree, especially after seeing Simon get killed in the SB. That said, I've resigned myself to losing Maxwell. I would have MUCH rather seen my team pay Maxwell instead of Wright, but that ship has sailed.

#4 Winning Teams Don't Pay 29 Year Old RB's

Marshawn is not like your typical 29 year old RB, and when you look at comparable RBs to Lynch throughout history, most of them finished their careers strong and ended with significantly more carries than Lynch currently has. Players with elite athleticism historically age very well, and this is true in every sport. Lynch is one of the most freakish athletes at RB ever. If his back holds up, I think he's got three or four years left. Seattle can offer him a contract with an easy out after two years.

 

[loafoftatupu]

It is not time for over reaction theater in the 12th man nation. But it is time to realize a few truths that many of our fellow fans don't want to admit.

#1 Russell Wilson is not worth 20 + million a year
Take it from a former Rams fan. Do not over pay for a QB. It kills your team. You would never pay Byron Maxwell like you pay Richard Sherman. So don't pay an above average QB like Wilson like you would Aaron Rodgers. Do what Brady does and take around 14 or 15 million but make it a flexible contract where you can restructure to sign key free agents or keep current Seahawks.

#2 The Defensive Line is in need of a serious influx of talent
I think we can all agree the 2014 Seahawks Defensive Line is worse than the 2013 version. They were exposed in this year's playoffs against better teams. Especially with their lack or ability to get at the QB. I think Avril is a good complementary edge guy. But is nowhere in the range of a Robert Quinn or Cameron Wake. And the lack of internal pressure from the DT position was evident all year. Especially after Mebane went out for the year.

#3 Byron Maxwell is not worth the money he will get on the open market
The Corner Back position has been depleted by free agency for this team. So I believe fans are over rating bringing back Maxwell. When you have an All Pro CB like Richard Sherman opposite of you, you have a lot of opportunities to make plays. Kind of like Antonio Cromartie who played opposite of Patrick Peterson in Arizona and Darrelle Revis in New York. Maxwell is a liability that is exposed game after game. QB's are not afraid to throw at him.

#4 Winning Teams Don't Pay 29 Year Old RB's
I love what Marshawn Lynch has done for this franchise. He is the greatest RB in our franchises history. But winning franchises do not pay 29 year old RB's top dollar. Do we not remember how Lynch had numerous nagging injuries throughout this year? Add another year on his life and you think he will get healthier? I'm not saying Turbin and Michael are the answer. But drafting at #31 will put you in a good spot to draft your best RB in this draft. But bottom line is the RB position is one that teams are finding more gems in the middle and later rounds. Demarco Murray was a 3rd round pick. Arian Foster was an undrafted free agent. Matt Forte, LeSean McCoy, and Le'Veon Bell were all 2nd round picks. Once again take it from a former Rams fan. Do not pay aging players for what they have done. But what they can still do. Rams were ruined when they payed a washed up Marshall Faulk, Orlando Pace, and Adam Timmerman.

That is reality?

Fellow fans? Our?

Who in the hell are you?

The Regulators have been activated.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

It is not time for over reaction theater in the 12th man nation. But it is time to realize a few truths that many of our fellow fans don't want to admit.

#1 Russell Wilson is not worth 20 + million a year
Take it from a former Rams fan.

I stopped reading after this. How can expect to be taken seriously if you're former fan of whatever team?

 

[Hasselbeck]

It is not time for over reaction theater in the 12th man nation. But it is time to realize a few truths that many of our fellow fans don't want to admit.

#1 Russell Wilson is not worth 20 + million a year
Take it from a former Rams fan. Do not over pay for a QB. It kills your team. You would never pay Byron Maxwell like you pay Richard Sherman. So don't pay an above average QB like Wilson like you would Aaron Rodgers. Do what Brady does and take around 14 or 15 million but make it a flexible contract where you can restructure to sign key free agents or keep current Seahawks.

#2 The Defensive Line is in need of a serious influx of talent
I think we can all agree the 2014 Seahawks Defensive Line is worse than the 2013 version. They were exposed in this year's playoffs against better teams. Especially with their lack or ability to get at the QB. I think Avril is a good complementary edge guy. But is nowhere in the range of a Robert Quinn or Cameron Wake. And the lack of internal pressure from the DT position was evident all year. Especially after Mebane went out for the year.

#3 Byron Maxwell is not worth the money he will get on the open market
The Corner Back position has been depleted by free agency for this team. So I believe fans are over rating bringing back Maxwell. When you have an All Pro CB like Richard Sherman opposite of you, you have a lot of opportunities to make plays. Kind of like Antonio Cromartie who played opposite of Patrick Peterson in Arizona and Darrelle Revis in New York. Maxwell is a liability that is exposed game after game. QB's are not afraid to throw at him.

#4 Winning Teams Don't Pay 29 Year Old RB's
I love what Marshawn Lynch has done for this franchise. He is the greatest RB in our franchises history. But winning franchises do not pay 29 year old RB's top dollar. Do we not remember how Lynch had numerous nagging injuries throughout this year? Add another year on his life and you think he will get healthier? I'm not saying Turbin and Michael are the answer. But drafting at #31 will put you in a good spot to draft your best RB in this draft. But bottom line is the RB position is one that teams are finding more gems in the middle and later rounds. Demarco Murray was a 3rd round pick. Arian Foster was an undrafted free agent. Matt Forte, LeSean McCoy, and Le'Veon Bell were all 2nd round picks. Once again take it from a former Rams fan. Do not pay aging players for what they have done. But what they can still do. Rams were ruined when they payed a washed up Marshall Faulk, Orlando Pace, and Adam Timmerman.

1. Agreed. But it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't market. They have to pay the value of a franchise QB, which at this moment in time is in the 20M a year range. Obviously if he took 14-15M a year, that'd be incredible.. but I cannot believe his agent or Russ himself would agree to that.. especially after playing for 3 years on peanuts.

2. Agreed again. Mebane and Hill's injuries didn't help obviously, but the depth behind those guys .. and behind Avril and Bennett.. well it was a big drop off.

3. Yep. Which is why I figure JS will offer his realistic value and someone else (this screams a Jets move, could also see the Falcons jumping in with Quinn) will overpay the hell out of him. Good for Maxwell though, go get the most money you can have.

4. I think Marshawn is a special case. He's not the typical 29 year old back.. and from what I've read.. they're not paying Marshawn through 2020 or something.. its giving him a raise in 2015 and an additional year. If thats the deal that winds up happening, I have zero problem with it. Not to mention this allows us to draft and groom his replacement (safe to say thats not Christine Michael) and prepare for life after Marshawn.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

Should Marshawn have one more year like he's just had.....he will be a Ring of Honor candidate. I would like to see him retire as a Seahawk.

 

[hawkfan68]

Wilson's value to the Seahawks is much greater than what his value may be on the open market. So to keep him the Seahawks will have to pay him. He's sort of like Lynch. His value for the team exceeds his total perceived market value.