Soon to be the End of the Pete Carroll Era?

[semiahmoo]

Completely insane. Leading the division by three games, the #3 seed in the playoffs, half a game behind #2.

Just because we had a bad outing in freezing cold weather against one of the best QBs in the league. And a few of you want to replace the best coach the franchise has ever had.

As the saying goes, you don't know what you've got ,until it's gone.

No, that is not what the original post said. It speaks to an end of an era, whereby the performance of the team is but one measure of that perspective.

Attitude, tone, etc., feel different this season, as if Pete and company know his time is coming to a close. As other replies suggested, Pete is likely preparing to exit after next season, especially if this playoff run proves something along the lines of a one-and-done outing.

And once beyond Pete's departure, the questions become even greater and more troubling as to where we go from there.

And yes, the seeds of this change were planted, at least in part, with the conclusion of Super Bowl XLIX. Call it a loss of trust in the coaching staff, or something else, there was something missing from the next season, and that missing something has only been more glaring this season.

I noted it in Training Camp two summer ago, and really saw it play out during last summer's camp. The team had lost some of its edge/focus/desire, etc.

One of the bright spots was watching Jimmy Graham come back from that horrible injury. He worked his ass off and much of his Seattle-potential remains untapped but I fear either he'll lose interest in waiting for it to coalesce, or management will to make room for O-Line changes.

 

[semiahmoo]

To address the OP's point: Why does Pete Carroll get all the blame? Where does John Schneider fit into your equation?

I blame him more for the O-line than Carroll.

It's football, everyone's to blame after a loss like yesterday.

But if we're handing out percentage of blame? Then Pete gets a good 75% in my book. What we've seen twice in a row now on the road is an unprepared mentally AND physically team that's getting their doors blown off by more physical and motivated teams.

How does that happen? That's on Pete, he's not getting this team mentally tough and ready for the playoffs, especially when we'll have to go back out on the road at some point.

Does this team have enough talent to win a SB? If you answer yes, then it's about preparation and motivation. Both those things lie at the feet of one person, Pete.

Much wisdom in what you said. Thank you.

 

[Uncle Si]

I think it's pretty assumptive to suggest that the "feeling" around the team is linked to Pete leaving, or there is some seismic shift towards the negative.

Every one of the key players on this team from the previous few years is older, richer, many have families, they are more experienced, they are veterans. They are not the underdogs. Not the overlooked. They are all pros. They very well may see the game, this past game, the NFL, etc. just a little different than they did a couple years ago.

There is every reason to believe this team, much like the San Antonio Spurs for example, is feeling its way to the inevitable playoff berth it sees coming.

Either way... the team is struggling offensively on the road. That needs to be fixed. Attributing to that to some gut feeling, non-quantifiable and without any evidence whatsoever about the future of the head coach is grasping at straws as much as saying its a hidden curse placed on the team by the Manning family.

They may just not like to travel.

 

[Seymour]

But to put all the blame on Pete for the O-line personnel seems strange to me. That's all on the GM. Even if all the responsibility was handed to Tom Cable, John Schneider is the one who ultimately is in charge of overseeing that. He can veto Tom Cable if he doesn't think the O-line looks good enough.

O-line looked plenty good against the Panthers, who had the #1 rush defense going into that game.

That's why I put these kinds of bad losses on Pete. The talent is there all over this roster, so when we put up a stinker, that's all preparedness and motivation. Pete.

I would not be too quick to hang my hat on that fact. That Panther team clearly checked out that game. Look what motivated teams have done to us lately.

Ran well against the Pats as well....................on the road, were they checked out too?

O-line is not good for sure, but I can't hang yesterday's loss on them, not even close. I saw a soft unprepared uninspired performance, in every facet and unit on the field.

This used to be good road team, because defense and run game travels. Neither of which is anywhere near the level it's been in the past.

No, but I said lately. Pats game was 5 games ago, but I'll concede that is a better example. I'm not hanging this on oline. Game was on the whole team starting with Wilson and Dline then WR group.
My point was more that this oline COULD and likely will knock us out before we reach our goals this season.

 

[xgeoff]

You will be. They are 8-4-1 and had their first blowout in 5 years. Every other team in the league has been blown out multiple times. I think you're overreacting. But maybe I'm wrong.

Agree, way overreacting.

 

[Siouxhawk]

It was still a crap move by a coach under those circumstances. Pete took total blame and didnt drop any players name with anything negative associated to them. Bevell on the other hand takes the low road and lays the blame on the players. No wonder he gets flipped off by the team every now and then. He's a cancer to the organization and I cant wait until he's gone.

Completely disagree on all your points. Reviewing it, he said "we" didn't go hard enough to the ball in answering the question. And way to spin the flipping the bird reality to try to support your point. Doug said he was playfully messing with Bevell as sort of an inside joke. This was before a play that resulted in a touchdown. As far as Marshawn, any speculation on why he did it is just that, speculation, as he never elaborated on it as he is Marshawn after all. As far as we know, he could've been flipping off Pete, Bevell, Sherm Smith, a teammate on the sideline, a trainer, a fan in the stands, the artist of a song he didn't like that popped in his head. Or maybe he was creating a diversion. Nobody knows but Marshawn.

The fact that any player at any time is flipping off the coaching staff isnt a good thing. How you can see nothing wrong with that is crazy. It shows how blind you are when it comes to anything negative about this team. Marshawn doing so and it being fine because Marshawn is Marshawn is garbage. He didnt elaborate because unlike Bevell, he didnt want to publicly throw anybody under the bus. I think we all know why it happened and thats because he was fed up with the crappy play calling. I'm also confident that same reason had a good bit to do with him retiring. It cost him another superbowl and it was never going to get any better with the same OC still being there so what was the point of still playing. I'll never forget the following season against the Rams when it was 4th and 1 and although the Rams had a stacked line and one of the most formidable fronts in the NFL, Bevell called his number almost as if it would alleviate the grief and pain Lynch and the other players felt from the superbowl call. As usual for Bevell, it was a terrible call and failed miserably.

As for Pete, if he agreed to the atrocious '2nd and wrong' call in the superbowl, then he had to go to bat for Bevell after that season or he himself would have been shown to be just as guilty. Again, this is another reason why Pete should stay away from the offense completely as he's not an offensive coach and his ego and dedication to be cute hurts the team more than helps it.

Your speculation is beyond belief.
I'm sure Doug won't pull that move again, but even he said it was done without malice.
Marshawn retired because his body was breaking down.
It's Pete's offensive philosophy. Bevell carries out Pete's direction.

 

[Seymour]

The fact that any player at any time is flipping off the coaching staff isnt a good thing. How you can see nothing wrong with that is crazy. It shows how blind you are when it comes to anything negative about this team. Marshawn doing so and it being fine because Marshawn is Marshawn is garbage. He didnt elaborate because unlike Bevell, he didnt want to publicly throw anybody under the bus. I think we all know why it happened and thats because he was fed up with the crappy play calling. I'm also confident that same reason had a good bit to do with him retiring. It cost him another superbowl and it was never going to get any better with the same OC still being there so what was the point of still playing. I'll never forget the following season against the Rams when it was 4th and 1 and although the Rams had a stacked line and one of the most formidable fronts in the NFL, Bevell called his number almost as if it would alleviate the grief and pain Lynch and the other players felt from the superbowl call. As usual for Bevell, it was a terrible call and failed miserably.

As for Pete, if he agreed to the atrocious '2nd and wrong' call in the superbowl, then he had to go to bat for Bevell after that season or he himself would have been shown to be just as guilty. Again, this is another reason why Pete should stay away from the offense completely as he's not an offensive coach and his ego and dedication to be cute hurts the team more than helps it.

Your speculation is beyond belief.
I'm sure Doug won't pull that move again, but even he said it was done without malice.
Marshawn retired because his body was breaking down.
It's Pete's offensive philosophy. Bevell carries out Pete's direction.

He also said it was a joke, but no smile, just that ADB look. If it was possibly done with malice, what do you think Baldwin would say to the press?

 

[ivotuk]

Jeff Fisher is available

 

[canfan]

The team got blown out for the first time under Pete Carroll! Doom and dispair! We'll never win again, and Pete Carroll will be run out of town and forced to live in a shack in the Arizona wilderness!

not a very flattering picture of our punter!

 

[semiahmoo]

Completely insane. Leading the division by three games, the #3 seed in the playoffs, half a game behind #2.

Just because we had a bad outing in freezing cold weather against one of the best QBs in the league. And a few of you want to replace the best coach the franchise has ever had.

As the saying goes, you don't know what you've got ,until it's gone.

No, that is not what the original post said. It speaks to an end of an era, whereby the performance of the team is but one measure of that perspective.

Attitude, tone, etc., feel different this season, as if Pete and company know his time is coming to a close. As other replies suggested, Pete is likely preparing to exit after next season, especially if this playoff run proves something along the lines of a one-and-done outing.

And once beyond Pete's departure, the questions become even greater and more troubling as to where we go from there.

And yes, the seeds of this change were planted, at least in part, with the conclusion of Super Bowl XLIX. Call it a loss of trust in the coaching staff, or something else, there was something missing from the next season, and that missing something has only been more glaring this season.

I noted it in Training Camp two summer ago, and really saw it play out during last summer's camp. The team had lost some of its edge/focus/desire, etc.

One of the bright spots was watching Jimmy Graham come back from that horrible injury. He worked his ass off and much of his Seattle-potential remains untapped but I fear either he'll lose interest in waiting for it to coalesce, or management will to make room for O-Line changes.

 

[Kennedyin92]

It's interesting watching the collective reaction to yesterday's game, you'd think the late 80's and '90s iterations of the Hawks never existed. Yesterday was the worst game I've seen them play in a very long time, so bad that I actually turned my attention to more important things, but to insinuate that it's anywhere close to the worst we've seen is foolhardy. Ifyou were not a fan in those days, I'd be glad to give you a primer.

 

[semiahmoo]

It's interesting watching the collective reaction to yesterday's game, you'd think the late 80's and '90s iterations of the Hawks never existed. Yesterday was the worst game I've seen them play in a very long time, so bad that I actually turned my attention to more important things, but to insinuate that it's anywhere close to the worst we've seen is foolhardy. Ifyou were not a fan in those days, I'd be glad to give you a primer.

The original post had nothing to do with comparing this year's team to the 80's or 90's, but rather admitting that Sunday's blowout was not the first such loss, that the 2016 Hawks have been good, but rarely great, and sometimes awful, and thoughts as to why that is.

Pete Carroll will be in the final year of his current contract next season. A turning of the page does appear to be underway. If so, kudos to Pete for some great football, but methinks there will be some tough challenges ahead as this team tries to rediscover itself, particularly if this year's playoffs is a one-and-done affair.

I would love to see Pete make at least one more significant run toward a Super Bowl appearance, but this year's Hawks seem to be missing the arrogant snarl of previous recent teams, and our opponents no longer fear us like they once did.

(Maybe that will work in our favor is Pete can find someway to turn on the switch come playoffs? Who knows?)

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

"this year's Hawks seem to be missing the arrogant snarl of previous recent teams"

Where is the evidence to support that premise?

There have been a ~lot~ of vicious hits by our D this year, even including some yesterday. On O, Rawls was absolutely pounding that rock, behind a few devastating blocks.

 

[Seymour]

It's interesting watching the collective reaction to yesterday's game, you'd think the late 80's and '90s iterations of the Hawks never existed. Yesterday was the worst game I've seen them play in a very long time, so bad that I actually turned my attention to more important things, but to insinuate that it's anywhere close to the worst we've seen is foolhardy. Ifyou were not a fan in those days, I'd be glad to give you a primer.

The original post had nothing to do with comparing this year's team to the 80's or 90's, but rather admitting that Sunday's blowout was not the first such loss, that the 2016 Hawks have been good, but rarely great, and sometimes awful, and thoughts as to why that is.

Pete Carroll will be in the final year of his current contract next season. A turning of the page does appear to be underway. If so, kudos to Pete for some great football, but methinks there will be some tough challenges ahead as this team tries to rediscover itself, particularly if this year's playoffs is a one-and-done affair.

I would love to see Pete make at least one more significant run toward a Super Bowl appearance, but this year's Hawks seem to be missing the arrogant snarl of previous recent teams, and our opponents no longer fear us like they once did.

(Maybe that will work in our favor is Pete can find someway to turn on the switch come playoffs? Who knows?)

You might want to keep up. Pete signed this July and is here through 2019. :179422:

 

[captSE]

Ha ha. Let us know when you wake up - you're having a bad dream.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

 

[Kennedyin92]

It's interesting watching the collective reaction to yesterday's game, you'd think the late 80's and '90s iterations of the Hawks never existed. Yesterday was the worst game I've seen them play in a very long time, so bad that I actually turned my attention to more important things, but to insinuate that it's anywhere close to the worst we've seen is foolhardy. Ifyou were not a fan in those days, I'd be glad to give you a primer.

The original post had nothing to do with comparing this year's team to the 80's or 90's, but rather admitting that Sunday's blowout was not the first such loss, that the 2016 Hawks have been good, but rarely great, and sometimes awful, and thoughts as to why that is.

Pete Carroll will be in the final year of his current contract next season. A turning of the page does appear to be underway. If so, kudos to Pete for some great football, but methinks there will be some tough challenges ahead as this team tries to rediscover itself, particularly if this year's playoffs is a one-and-done affair.

I would love to see Pete make at least one more significant run toward a Super Bowl appearance, but this year's Hawks seem to be missing the arrogant snarl of previous recent teams, and our opponents no longer fear us like they once did.

(Maybe that will work in our favor is Pete can find someway to turn on the switch come playoffs? Who knows?)

Thank you for the lecture as to the intent of the OP, I'm well aware that I was the one to make the comparison.

 

[semiahmoo]

It's interesting watching the collective reaction to yesterday's game, you'd think the late 80's and '90s iterations of the Hawks never existed. Yesterday was the worst game I've seen them play in a very long time, so bad that I actually turned my attention to more important things, but to insinuate that it's anywhere close to the worst we've seen is foolhardy. Ifyou were not a fan in those days, I'd be glad to give you a primer.

The original post had nothing to do with comparing this year's team to the 80's or 90's, but rather admitting that Sunday's blowout was not the first such loss, that the 2016 Hawks have been good, but rarely great, and sometimes awful, and thoughts as to why that is.

Pete Carroll will be in the final year of his current contract next season. A turning of the page does appear to be underway. If so, kudos to Pete for some great football, but methinks there will be some tough challenges ahead as this team tries to rediscover itself, particularly if this year's playoffs is a one-and-done affair.

I would love to see Pete make at least one more significant run toward a Super Bowl appearance, but this year's Hawks seem to be missing the arrogant snarl of previous recent teams, and our opponents no longer fear us like they once did.

(Maybe that will work in our favor is Pete can find someway to turn on the switch come playoffs? Who knows?)

You might want to keep up. Pete signed this July and is here through 2019. :179422:

Yup. Pete is here should he choose to 2019, not 2018.

Good catch. It's 2019 that has both he and Wilson's contracts up unless they are extended. (Unlikely for PC, possible for RW - but again emphasizing a turning of the page may already be underway.)

 

[London12]

It saddens me a lot to see a lot of these comments.

If I may take an example from "soccer" here in England, Alex Ferguson was the man that brought many consecutive trophies to Manchester United in a ten year period after years of nada. He went through a rough patch for three years where people called for his head. The next season United won the league, the season after the European cup. Years of success followed until his retirement. Since then we have gone through years of mediocrity.

Tldr - you really don't know what you've got until it's gone. Don't get rid of a winning coach based on a down year as there is no guarantee of success after. Also this is hardly a down year.

 

[semiahmoo]

It saddens me a lot to see a lot of these comments.

If I may take an example from "soccer" here in England, Alex Ferguson was the man that brought many consecutive trophies to Manchester United in a ten year period after years of nada. He went through a rough patch for three years where people called for his head. The next season United won the league, the season after the European cup. Years of success followed until his retirement. Since then we have gone through years of mediocrity.

Tldr - you really don't know what you've got until it's gone. Don't get rid of a winning coach based on a down year as there is no guarantee of success after. Also this is hardly a down year.

Not talking of "getting rid" of Carroll, but rather a sense he is himself already on the way out of his own choosing. Not necessarily after this season, but perhaps the one after?

There comes a time when a coach feels they have reached a point of diminishing returns, and if this playoff run is a brief and disappointing one, Pete may very well reach that point.

He has every right to go out on his own terms at a time of his choosing with what remains of his contract, but if he chooses to bow out earlier than 2019, I would not be surprised. It is going to take an enormous amount of skill to keep this team patched together beyond this season. There are some strong undercurrents just beneath the surface of what is seen during game day that will prove a serious PITA for any head coach - Carroll included.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

My undercurrents are strong as well. I exercise them regularly.