The biggest credit to Carroll

[OneLofaTatupu]

All I have to say is thank God the team isn’t run by us the fans.

Might be fun. Imagine what would be going on in Philly.

 

[LTH]

Each game and each week are different and unique.

Pete Carroll and Clint Hurtt made the winning decisions in going with Julian Love and Artie Burns and Michael Jackson. All three players answered the call and validated the belief and trust of their coaches.

Inspiring.

Here is what I think is interesting. I think there was more to Jamal adams not playing than his knee. I think Carroll used the injury as an excuses not to throw Jamal under the bus AGAIN. I think it's going to to be interesting,if Pete starts him, how Jamal responds to his Benching. I mean I really can't say for sure that my premise of Jamal is correct because I don't have fact to back it up, but I believe it to be true?

Woolen is another one who I am curious how he is going to respond to Carroll's actions.

The other thing that I am looking at is, the Hawks need to find away to defend the short pass in the middle. Bobby and Brooks have not been good in this area and opposing teams are going to exploit that.



LTH

 

[hoxrox]

Here is what I think is interesting. I think there was more to Jamal adams not playing than his knee. I think Carroll used the injury as an excuses not to throw Jamal under the bus AGAIN. I think it's going to to be interesting,if Pete starts him, how Jamal responds to his Benching. I mean I really can't say for sure that my premise of Jamal is correct because I don't have fact to back it up, but I believe it to be true?

Prior to the Eagles game, "PO'd Pete" said that changes would be made.

We find out later that the change was that Woolen would lose starter reps, and that Adams would be benched.

According to this tweet, he was a "healthy scratch" so there could be some truth to what you're saying:



Adams didn't even show up to the stadium. If it was just an injury thing, he would at least be on the sidelines supporting his teammates. I think this was a benching to send a message to not only Adams, but the entire locker room.

 

[ZagHawk]

His belief in his players and assistants is his greatest fault sometimes.

This. Major double edged sword.

For those who don't understand:

It has proven to get some good talent out of players who need a second chance, also allows some special players with unique energy (like how I worded that?) to feel comfortable and play free to the best of their ability (a lot of the LOB, Beast, even DK). However, it also creates situations where we have seen gameplans that don't adapt because he firmly believes the team just needs to execute or will execute. Maybe your O-Line is incapable of holding Aaron Donald or Nick Bosa for 5 seconds...regardless of your belief.

 

[toffee]

Prior to the Eagles game, "PO'd Pete" said that changes would be made.

We find out later that the change was that Woolen would lose starter reps, and that Adams would be benched.

According to this tweet, he was a "healthy scratch" so there could be some truth to what you're saying:



Adams didn't even show up to the stadium. If it was just an injury thing, he would at least be on the sidelines supporting his teammates. I think this was a benching to send a message to not only Adams, but the entire locker room.

Love played well.

 

[GemCity]

When a team goes on a four game losing streak and players are directly contradicting the coach in press statements, it’s not far-fetched to wonder if the coach has “…lost the locker room”.

Considering players like Sherm have said that PCs hoorah get old once players become more experienced, do we really think it’s crazy to ask the question?

No doubt it was a great win.

One has to wonder how and more importantly, why, a young stud like Riq Woolen has fallen off so quickly.

This roster has underperformed. If you think otherwise, there’s not much to discuss as your homerism cannot be cracked.

Yet, the season is not lost. Post game, the energy was good. We should be able to win out and with a little luck…go into the playoffs with the same record as everyone else….0-0.

 

[Maelstrom787]

When a team goes on a four game losing streak and players are directly contradicting the coach in press statements, it’s not far-fetched to wonder if the coach has “…lost the locker room”.

Considering players like Sherm have said that PCs hoorah get old once players become more experienced, do we really think it’s crazy to ask the question?

No doubt it was a great win.

One has to wonder how and more importantly, why, a young stud like Riq Woolen has fallen off so quickly.

This roster has underperformed. If you think otherwise, there’s not much to discuss as your homerism cannot be cracked.

Yet, the season is not lost. Post game, the energy was good. We should be able to win out and with a little luck…go into the playoffs with the same record as everyone else….0-0.

Riq Woolen has fallen off in the mental side of the game. He was never an especially willing tackler, but he's had some lapses in effort in that regard. He's also busted some crucial coverages, and is probably a direct catalyst for Pete's anger before this week.

Now this does kind of make sense given what he looked like as a college player.

There's only one way that a player with fairly incomparable speed coupled with the PERFECT body for the position lasts until the halfway point of day 3 in his draft. Red flags.

I don't think they're doing a poor job of motivating him. I think he's got some searching within himself to do. His potential is absolutely limitless. He has no excuse for regressing while the others around him improve.

EDIT: That being said, yes. The roster has absolutely underperformed on the overall scale - but one has to wonder where the culpability for that is. I think it lands pretty squarely on coaching (yes, Pete hires them so he ultimately is at fault, but this all feels like it could be cleaned up with guys who coach the details better) with some blame going towards personnel decisions (cough BOBBY WAGNERS CORPSE cough) sabotaging other players.

 

[GemCity]

Riq Woolen has fallen off in the mental side of the game. He was never an especially willing tackler, but he's had some lapses in effort in that regard. He's also busted some crucial coverages, and is probably a direct catalyst for Pete's anger before this week.

Now this does kind of make sense given what he looked like as a college player.

There's only one way that a player with fairly incomparable speed coupled with the PERFECT body for the position lasts until the halfway point of day 3 in his draft. Red flags.

I don't think they're doing a poor job of motivating him. I think he's got some searching within himself to do. His potential is absolutely limitless. He has no excuse for regressing while the others around him improve.

Do you tend to think he struggles more with the zone in comparison to man-to-man?

I haven’t had the time to watch his coverage other than the actual games (i.e., not usually seeing the entire secondary).

 

[Maelstrom787]

Don’t tend to think he struggles more with the zone in comparison to man-to-man?

I haven’t had the time to watch his coverage other than the actual games (i.e., not usually seeing the entire secondary).

I think he could do both really well. He's already pretty good in man. I think his overall absurd efficiency in man is misleading - he can get beat pretty soundly by savvy receivers.

If he's bad in zone, he'll simply never be good overall. Even the most man heavy teams in the league run more zone than they do man. He has all of the tools to be astounding in zone because he can cover so much range nearly instantly. Couple that with his freakish catch radius and he's pretty much built in a lab to be Sherm, but with rockets strapped to his ankles.

 

[OrangeGravy]

When a team goes on a four game losing streak and players are directly contradicting the coach in press statements, it’s not far-fetched to wonder if the coach has “…lost the locker room”.

Considering players like Sherm have said that PCs hoorah get old once players become more experienced, do we really think it’s crazy to ask the question?

No doubt it was a great win.

One has to wonder how and more importantly, why, a young stud like Riq Woolen has fallen off so quickly.

This roster has underperformed. If you think otherwise, there’s not much to discuss as your homerism cannot be cracked.

Yet, the season is not lost. Post game, the energy was good. We should be able to win out and with a little luck…go into the playoffs with the same record as everyone else….0-0.

He had knee surgery.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I think he could do both really well. He's already pretty good in man. I think his overall absurd efficiency in man is misleading - he can get beat pretty soundly by savvy receivers.

If he's bad in zone, he'll simply never be good overall. Even the most man heavy teams in the league run more zone than they do man. He has all of the tools to be astounding in zone because he can cover so much range nearly instantly. Couple that with his freakish catch radius and he's pretty much built in a lab to be Sherm, but with rockets strapped to his ankles.

He had his knee scoped before the season started. He made a lot of mistakes last year, but was fast enough to recover. After his knee procedure, he doesn't yet.

 

[Maelstrom787]

He had his knee scoped before the season started. He made a lot of mistakes last year, but was fast enough to recover. After his knee procedure, he doesn't yet.

I dunno, His speed has looked fine to me. Same astounding acceleration. His processing hasn't improved at all, though. He's been contributing to coverage busts and his bad tackling is even worse after his shoulder injury.

I really think he's just not locked in mentally. Competition is going to have to motivate him, because there's no excuse for him to be legitimately losing snaps to Mike Jackson.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I dunno, His speed has looked fine to me. Same astounding acceleration. His processing hasn't improved at all, though. He's been contributing to coverage busts and his bad tackling is even worse after his shoulder injury.

I really think he's just not locked in mentally. Competition is going to have to motivate him, because there's no excuse for him to be legitimately losing snaps to Mike Jackson.

Confidence takes a hit with injuries for some guys. Tackling is the only thing worse for me. He doesn't have his normal burst and he's busting same as last year, it just gets forgotten about when he recovered and made a play.
He's still really fast, just not fast enough to cover not knowing how to play yet

 

[Maelstrom787]

Confidence takes a hit with injuries for some guys. Tackling is the only thing worse for me. He doesn't have his normal burst and he's busting same as last year, it just gets forgotten about when he recovered and made a play.
He's still really fast, just not fast enough to cover not knowing how to play yet

That's a really good point that I hadn't considered (about his confidence). He's had a lot of highs and lows in his recent life. Crazy performance in draft process but fell in the actual draft. Insane rookie season but injuries suddenly limiting him. A lot goes into the mental makeup of a young player subjected to a lot of emotional peaks and valleys.

 

[keasley45]

When a team goes on a four game losing streak and players are directly contradicting the coach in press statements, it’s not far-fetched to wonder if the coach has “…lost the locker room”.

Considering players like Sherm have said that PCs hoorah get old once players become more experienced, do we really think it’s crazy to ask the question?

No doubt it was a great win.

One has to wonder how and more importantly, why, a young stud like Riq Woolen has fallen off so quickly.

This roster has underperformed. If you think otherwise, there’s not much to discuss as your homerism cannot be cracked.

Yet, the season is not lost. Post game, the energy was good. We should be able to win out and with a little luck…go into the playoffs with the same record as everyone else….0-0.

A coaches message gets old whether it's rah rah or woof woof. That's not unique to Pete. Players tired of Vermeil. They tired of Parcels. And Sherm is notoriously thin skinned.

I think I agree in part that the roster has underperformed. I say in part, because when you see what Pete gets out of players who otherwise wouldnt achieve what they do, that accounts for something. How far above who he is, is Geno playing? Lock? I mean, 99.9% of everyone in the world thought starting Geno last year was a joke. And with Pete, he went on to post the season he did. We can talk about regression. But really, if he was playing way above his ceiling to begin with, doesn't that mean that he's getting good coaching and playing in a good system? Same with Lock.

Hoe many teams lose both starting tackles and manage to stay competitive?

On the flip, Pete's admission this week that the intensity in preparation the team had leading up to the Eagles game was above what they've had all year. That's disturbing because it points to a team that week in and week out hasn't been focused enough, and that showed in the product on the field and especially in thr losses we've had. It shouldn't have taken Pete 15 weeks to see what slapped him in the face in week 1. Same thing. Lack of focus. Sub-par preparation.

So where I'm landing is that I think Pete brings soemthing intangible to this team that gets players and sometimes the unit as a whole to perform better than what another staff would be able to extract. AND other times that same approach results in games slipping away that shouldn't. But in the end, at this point in our development, are we really more than a game off of what this team's potential really is? I don't know the answer to that. Because I can't say that many other coaching staffs would have gotten what ours did from Lock this past Monday or what it has from Geno since he's been a starter. I don't know many staffs that could March into Detroit with a backup o Line and beat the Lions. Or with a backup qb, missing its best defensive player, beat the 2nd best team in the NFC, when they had to have a win to keep pace for the 1 seed. Or go into Dallas, a place no one wins but the Cowboys, and go toe to toe with them... without your starting RB.

And.. I also don't see how you drop the 2nd game to the Rams. The first one, I caveat because we did lose both starting tackles against a defense featuring the best D lineman in the game. But yeah, we have sleep walked ourselves to losses.

But are players like Woolen now underperforming, or did they simply overperform last year? Because I seem to remember his play not being great toward the end of the season last year when teams began to understand what he struggles with.

At the end, I think we are right about where we should be. It's just been frustrating to watch and experience because we discount the incredible wins against teams we'd most likely penciled in as Ls to start the season, and dropped games we absokutley coukd have won, but gave away.

Unless Pete is really just done and the game has past him by, I still think that when it's all said and done, we end up being a really good team with a shot to win it all. The path their might just seem like it's lost until we arrive.

 

[sutz]

I look at the roster and I see a lot of young, first and second year guys who could grow into something special. Would hate to shuffle the deck at the top right now when they seem to be coming together. It's been a difficult year, but a lot of the bad shit we've seen just could be "rookie" mistakes and learning experiences.

YMMV

 

[ZagHawk]

I look at the roster and I see a lot of young, first and second year guys who could grow into something special. Would hate to shuffle the deck at the top right now when they seem to be coming together. It's been a difficult year, but a lot of the bad shit we've seen just could be "rookie" mistakes and learning experiences.

YMMV

Some will argue that McVay stepped into the Rams with all the players Fischer drafted. I think a lot of us are so worried about coaching changes regarding what could go wrong vs what could go right. Honestly this has been a life thing I've been working through myself, anxiety hanging onto or staying in unsatisfactory places because we're so worried about things getting worse like we step on that ledge we might fall vs maybe the ledge is fine and we'll get the most beautiful view you couldn't see standing 40 feet back from it.

As a fan the worst thing we have to deal with is losing football and Sundays we need to get excited about something else that day. It's the ownership fear of LOST REVENUE that is really preventing the change.

 

[ZagHawk]

Also worth noting...Bill Belichick is on the hot seat and his accolades (Brady or Not) far outweigh anything any coach (including Pete) has done. If Belichick can be on the hot seat so can Pete.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Unless the owner sits on her hands and does nothing.

 

[ZagHawk]

Unless the owner sits on her hands and does nothing.

I do agree with you...she will do nothing. Easier to do nothing and continue raking in money with a good product (better than average is good) until Pete himself is ready to retire and then be forced to make a decision later. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, this wheel isn't squeaky...it's just not capable of going past the speed limit. It'll get addressed when it's worn out or blows out.

I can see that inner board room meeting..Hey Jody sales have been down and fans are getting disgruntled with Pete and want more. Are we still making money in the stadium? yes. Are they still watching and buying jerseys? yes...the throwbacks were good. Okay sounds like a problem for 2025.