Soon to be the End of the Pete Carroll Era?

[semiahmoo]

It saddens me a lot to see a lot of these comments.

If I may take an example from "soccer" here in England, Alex Ferguson was the man that brought many consecutive trophies to Manchester United in a ten year period after years of nada. He went through a rough patch for three years where people called for his head. The next season United won the league, the season after the European cup. Years of success followed until his retirement. Since then we have gone through years of mediocrity.

Tldr - you really don't know what you've got until it's gone. Don't get rid of a winning coach based on a down year as there is no guarantee of success after. Also this is hardly a down year.

Not talking of "getting rid" of Carroll, but rather a sense he is himself already on the way out of his own choosing. Not necessarily after this season, but perhaps the one after?

There comes a time when a coach feels they have reached a point of diminishing returns, and if this playoff run is a brief and disappointing one, Pete may very well reach that point.

He has every right to go out on his own terms at a time of his choosing with what remains of his contract, but if he chooses to bow out earlier than 2019, I would not be surprised. It is going to take an enormous amount of skill to keep this team patched together beyond this season. There are some strong undercurrents just beneath the surface of what is seen during game day that will prove a serious PITA for any head coach - Carroll included.

 

[CANHawk]

What is it about this site lately that makes people feel they need to dig in and defend their stupid comment to the death? Why can't people just say, "yeah, that is kinda dumb I guess..." and move on?

So many here seem to think they have to be some sort of wise pontificator of sage football knowledge instead of just being Joe Sixpack watching a TV show..?

sent from the charred remains of a note 7 using tapatalk

 

[sc85sis]

I don't think the "2nd and wrong" in XLIX in the player's eyes is the reason for the downturn.
Too many games and plays since then. We as fans can simplistically look and say "there was the moment".

The salary cap, injuries, age, and maybe overconfidence by the coaching staff at times may be a problem and reasons for the drop off, but what happens if they go to the Super Bowl and win it THIS YEAR??? .....with those same issues.

There is still a ton of talent on this team, the core of this team is still strong. Have they underachieved for their talent level this year? YES. Have the coaching staff been slow to make ingame adjustments, IMHO yes. Have injuries to key players of the core been an issue, YES!


There have been a lot less talented teams in the NFL win the Super Bowl in the past decade than this team.
This is a down year for the NFL, if any year is the year to struggle but still make the playoffs and win it all, it's this year.

*allas, the best team recordwise, has looked like poo the past couple of games and if their opponents had any kind of offense they get smoked like Seattle did at GB today. It's all when you peak which is hopefully in the playoffs for Seattle.

I agree with pretty much everything here. But while I don't think the XLIX is the reason for the downturn, I think it was damaging to Pete's credibility in the eyes of the players. When you are being told to always compete and held to that standard, and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus... I think I would be sitting there thinking WTH. While I wouldn't call it a downfall, this team has had a different feel to it since then.

When has Pete EVER thrown his players under the bus? That is patently false. He took the heat for that call

 

[sc85sis]

But to put all the blame on Pete for the O-line personnel seems strange to me. That's all on the GM. Even if all the responsibility was handed to Tom Cable, John Schneider is the one who ultimately is in charge of overseeing that. He can veto Tom Cable if he doesn't think the O-line looks good enough.

O-line looked plenty good against the Panthers, who had the #1 rush defense going into that game.

That's why I put these kinds of bad losses on Pete. The talent is there all over this roster, so when we put up a stinker, that's all preparedness and motivation. Pete.

It may be in Pete, but the players also have to execute. Pete didn't overthrow the ball or gave passes bounce off his hands. These are grown men, not pee wee players. They are responsible for getting themselves ready to play just as much as Pete is.

 

[semiahmoo]

I agree with pretty much everything here. But while I don't think the XLIX is the reason for the downturn, I think it was damaging to Pete's credibility in the eyes of the players. When you are being told to always compete and held to that standard, and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus... I think I would be sitting there thinking WTH. While I wouldn't call it a downfall, this team has had a different feel to it since then.

When has Pete EVER thrown his players under the bus? That is patently false. He took the heat for that call

Wasn't it Bevell who kind of "threw payers under the bus?" Maybe Pete's defense of Bevell is where that comment originates? At any rate, I agree with those who say there remains some residual damage from "The Play" that this team has not fully healed from and perhaps never will during what remains of the Carroll era if the organization is unwilling to part with the current OC. Pete is clearly a very loyal guy, and kudos for that, but at some point, loyalty to one can become a burden to the collective good of all.

 

[bighawk]

Total overreaction to one game. Carroll would change up his staff before he give up like firing Cable which I think should be his first move. Injuries and the o-line is our main issues.

 

[thebanjodude]

What is it about this site lately that makes people feel they need to dig in and defend their stupid comment to the death? Why can't people just say, "yeah, that is kinda dumb I guess..." and move on?

So many here seem to think they have to be some sort of wise pontificator of sage football knowledge instead of just being Joe Sixpack watching a TV show..?

sent from the charred remains of a note 7 using tapatalk

Because people like to tell narratives in the hope that they correctly guess the future. Apparently makes them feel validated somehow.

 

[semiahmoo]

I agree with pretty much everything here. But while I don't think the XLIX is the reason for the downturn, I think it was damaging to Pete's credibility in the eyes of the players. When you are being told to always compete and held to that standard, and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus... I think I would be sitting there thinking WTH. While I wouldn't call it a downfall, this team has had a different feel to it since then.

When has Pete EVER thrown his players under the bus? That is patently false. He took the heat for that call

Wasn't it Bevell who kind of "threw players under the bus?" Maybe Pete's defense of Bevell is where that comment originates? At any rate, I agree with those who say there remains some residual damage from "The Play" that this team has not fully healed from and perhaps never will during what remains of the Carroll era if the organization is unwilling to part with the current OC. Pete is clearly a very loyal guy, and kudos for that, but at some point, loyalty to one can become a burden to the collective good of all.[/quote]

 

[chris98251]

The problem is the chip on the shoulder is now gone. It was filled with money, age, families, national attention. The first time around everyone was fighting for their spot on the team and making peanuts. They had everything to lose and no respect. Now they all got their 8 figure pay days, tons of respect, they matured, got wives and children, a solid spot on the roster.

It's no longer a young starving team. I think that is what Lynch saw that caused him to walk away. It was easy being a veteran on the team when he was surrounded by these young guys that were pushing the limits and taking everyone by storm. Lightning struck and it kept the Beast energized, then the storm started to break and Marshawn saw it wasn't worth it. Why beat himself up? The coaches obviously thought he wasn't a sure thing anymore. His teammates had drifted, some away from the Seahawks, some just found a place to be comfortable and hang back.

I think he relied greatly on the environment of the locker room, and it changed. He made his money, he hadn't completely destroyed his body, he didn't have team that made him passionate about the game, so he walked away near the peak of his career, on his own terms and didn't lose out on anything. I think if he felt they had a chance to build a dynasty and return to the super bowl again and again, he would have stuck around. But he saw it the spark was gone. It was going to be hard work and it wasn't going to be fun.

Lynch leaving signals the era is coming to an end. Not because he's gone, not because Pete is washed up. There was a moment in time where everything lined up perfectly, that moment has passed.

That's not to say the team is no longer capable. But the path to a championship is different. To get there now is going to be based on experience, not on passion and unwillingness to lose.

Nice post and one I happen to agree with, the throw caution to the wind mentality on defense is not as evident, I will also add they are now at the height or downside of their careers, they have more dings and get slower, they are more aware of injuries, hence the Earl retirement comment. The Rawls infusion on offense helps but they need that on defense as well Frank Clark has some of that but we need it in the secondary also, we have enough to win still but we have to be clicking, we don't scare people anymore.

Were going to have a dilemma soon, we need the O line to get better, we need our secondary to be intimidating, with Kam injured more and now Earl the thump isn't there like before, people are throwing away from Sherman still but we are also seeing him get challenged as well. Pete needs to start looking at some tough Belechick type decisions while our players have value.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

Because people like to tell narratives in the hope that they correctly guess the future. Apparently makes them feel validated somehow.

So true. I think our fascination with narratives stems from our culture. From our early moments in life, we've been taught by the positive feedback received by narrative-makers to become narrative-makers ourselves. Narratives, such as interpreting the Seahwaks recent struggles as the end of an era, have been responsible for the end of the age of reason. It's a shame. Nonetheless, this only confirms what I have always known.

 

[semiahmoo]

Nice post and one I happen to agree with, the throw caution to the wind mentality on defense is not as evident, I will also add they are now at the height or downside of their careers, they have more dings and get slower, they are more aware of injuries, hence the Earl retirement comment. The Rawls infusion on offense helps but they need that on defense as well Frank Clark has some of that but we need it in the secondary also, we have enough to win still but we have to be clicking, we don't scare people anymore.

Were going to have a dilemma soon, we need the O line to get better, we need our secondary to be intimidating, with Kam injured more and now Earl the thump isn't there like before, people are throwing away from Sherman still but we are also seeing him get challenged as well. Pete needs to start looking at some tough Belechick type decisions while our players have value.[/quote]
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You outlined the huge challenge that lies ahead for this team and Pete Carroll very well.

And your mention of Belechick is spot-on. No coach in the league has done better at managing ego and talent, including shipping it out and replacing it with newer/hungrier guys who prove themselves just as talented as those who were replaced.The guy is a mumbling magician.

Of course, it helps immensely how the offense remains built around one of the greatest QB's to ever play the game who at 39 years of age looks capable of going another 3-5 season if he chooses to do so and avoids serious injury.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Wasn't it Bevell who kind of "threw payers under the bus?" Maybe Pete's defense of Bevell is where that comment originates? At any rate, I agree with those who say there remains some residual damage from "The Play" that this team has not fully healed from and perhaps never will during what remains of the Carroll era if the organization is unwilling to part with the current OC. Pete is clearly a very loyal guy, and kudos for that, but at some point, loyalty to one can become a burden to the collective good of all.

Pete is loyal to winning. That's why he keeps his Super Bowl caliber staff together and the Hawks are tied with the Pats for being the most successful franchise the past 5 years.

 

[semiahmoo]

Pete is loyal to winning. That's why he keeps his Super Bowl caliber staff together and the Hawks are tied with the Pats for being the most successful franchise the past 5 years.[/quote]

Not quite tied, but somewhat close - 75 wins vs 68 for the Hawks.

Point taken, though!

 

[Siouxhawk]

Pete is loyal to winning. That's why he keeps his Super Bowl caliber staff together and the Hawks are tied with the Pats for being the most successful franchise the past 5 years.

Not quite tied, but somewhat close - 75 wins vs 68 for the Hawks.

Point taken, though![/quote]
Playoff wins. We actually have more.

 

[semiahmoo]

Pete is loyal to winning. That's why he keeps his Super Bowl caliber staff together and the Hawks are tied with the Pats for being the most successful franchise the past 5 years.

Not quite tied, but somewhat close - 75 wins vs 68 for the Hawks.

Point taken, though!

Playoff wins. We actually have more.[/quote]

Gotcha! Hopefully we add to that total soon.

 

[Bobblehead]

I agree with pretty much everything here. But while I don't think the XLIX is the reason for the downturn, I think it was damaging to Pete's credibility in the eyes of the players. When you are being told to always compete and held to that standard, and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus... I think I would be sitting there thinking WTH. While I wouldn't call it a downfall, this team has had a different feel to it since then.

When has Pete EVER thrown his players under the bus? That is patently false. He took the heat for that call

Pete has never thrown anyone under the bus, which is totally commendable on his part.

 

[JustTheTip]

I agree with pretty much everything here. But while I don't think the XLIX is the reason for the downturn, I think it was damaging to Pete's credibility in the eyes of the players. When you are being told to always compete and held to that standard, and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus... I think I would be sitting there thinking WTH. While I wouldn't call it a downfall, this team has had a different feel to it since then.

When has Pete EVER thrown his players under the bus? That is patently false. He took the heat for that call[/quote]

Pete didn't. In my opinion Bevell did (sorry I wasn't clearer on that, as Bevell called the play I thought it would be apparent who I was referring to), while Pete and Wilson put it on themselves. But there were no repercussions for Bevell (either for the play or throwing a player under the bus), and for a player I could see how that might undermine what they were being asked to buy into.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Pete didn't. In my opinion Bevell did (sorry I wasn't clearer on that, as Bevell called the play I thought it would be apparent who I was referring to), while Pete and Wilson put it on themselves. But there were no repercussions for Bevell (either for the play or throwing a player under the bus), and for a player I could see how that might undermine what they were being asked to buy into.

Reporter: What went wrong on the interception?
Bevell: WE didn't go hard enough to the ball.

OMG. What a shocking statement. Two things. 1) It was the truth. 2) He was referring to the result of that play, not badmouthing Ricardo at all.

Repercussions? Don't understand this at all. Every good coach in the world will say that as long as you leave everything on the field, you should never have regrets. If things don't go your way, you dust yourself off, learn from it and be prepared the next time you're in that same position.

The coaching staff has done that because they are professionals.

 

[semiahmoo]

None of which has bearing on 2016 beyond there being residual resentment among some who were part of that Super Bowl who are still with the team today, which is quite a few critical players.

The recent flip the bird display is further evidence of the resentment that exists among some players and the coaching staff.

There is clearly some trouble in Hawks Paradise. How deep and disruptive remains to be seen.

 

[West TX Hawk]

That's not what Bevell said. Get your facts straight. Here's the actual quote:

"He could've done a better job of staying strong through the ball...Our guy's got to go hard to the ball as well."
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/8806/poor ... uper-bowl/

This indicates a complete lack of respect for Lockette and lack of accountability. He was the one who called the play to target a player with just 18 career receptions with the title on the line. In many ways the team has just not been quite the same ever since. Pete's ideology perhaps was questioned and players began to not fully buy in. Our team has remained competitive but there's been something lacking.

If you're satisfied with 10-6 type seasons and divisional round exits, then you'll be forever happy. For those of us that have been following the team since Patera, we realize these windows for a 2nd championship are limited and Pete needs to quickly ignite a spark and/or make some changes in the offseason. The era obviously is not over, but I'm not sure if we'll ever get that 2nd title with him. Let's hope they can go on a run now through the playoffs.