Silence Is Deafening

[knownone]

We only have to look at the Bucs.

They went and got Tom Brady, Arians knew that he would be a dead man if he didn't get him support, they went out and got a O line first, and then WR's and RB's. A few pieces for defense and where it took a bit to gell at the start of the season and for Tom to learn the playbook and adapt to his new team by midway they were rolling.

It's a want by the team and of course willing to shuffle players and salary.

Are you sure the Bucs are a good example, though?

Before Brady, the Bucs were a team loaded with talent that couldn't win because of inconsistent QB play. Their roster is full of players drafted in the top half of every round. For example, they've drafted 7 starters in the last 3 years: early second or first-round picks (3 players are top 15 picks). On average, they've picked 16 spots ahead of Seattle.

For perspective, here's a draft value comparison of those drafts before trades: Seattle's average draft value is 544. The Bucs average draft value is 830. In other words, the difference between the average value of a single Seahawk's draft pick and a single Buccaneers draft pick is a late 2nd round pick. Think about that for a second; imagine what JS could do with 6 additional second-round picks worth of talent in 3 years.

Additionally, the only significant addition the Bucs made to the O-line was drafting Tristan Wirfs with the 13th overall pick. Brady joined a team with two second-team All-Pro receivers and a promising young RB. He recruited Gronkowski and Brown (two additional all-pros). And Fournette chose to play with them because of Brady. On top of that, Brown and Fournette were on cheap deals because they are basketcases.

So how exactly do Pete and John emulate the Buccaneers? They don't have the draft capital because they've been too good, and they've traded picks away to improve their defense. The likelihood of them finding bargains like Brown, Fournette, and Gronk are relatively low. And let's remember, they did make similar moves as the Bucs; They tried to sign Brown, brought in Olsen, and attempted to revive Gordon's career. It didn't work out, but those types of moves rarely do. Furthermore, Russell's contract is anywhere from 5 to 7 million more per season than Brady's.

I guess I don't really see a blueprint for Seattle to emulate the Bucs. It's a nice thing to say. However, it's almost impossible for them to do given the context of their current situation. What are they going to do? How are they going to draft a top 15 O-lineman? Who are this year's Gronk, Brown, and Fournette? Unless you are certain you can answer these questions, to assume it's a viable way to build a team is wishful thinking.

 

[chris98251]

We only have to look at the Bucs.

They went and got Tom Brady, Arians knew that he would be a dead man if he didn't get him support, they went out and got a O line first, and then WR's and RB's. A few pieces for defense and where it took a bit to gell at the start of the season and for Tom to learn the playbook and adapt to his new team by midway they were rolling.

It's a want by the team and of course willing to shuffle players and salary.

Are you sure the Bucs are a good example, though?

Before Brady, the Bucs were a team loaded with talent that couldn't win because of inconsistent QB play. Their roster is full of players drafted in the top half of every round. For example, they've drafted 7 starters in the last 3 years: early second or first-round picks (3 players are top 15 picks). On average, they've picked 16 spots ahead of Seattle.

For perspective, here's a draft value comparison of those drafts before trades: Seattle's average draft value is 544. The Bucs average draft value is 830. In other words, the difference between the average value of a single Seahawk's draft pick and a single Buccaneers draft pick is a late 2nd round pick. Think about that for a second; imagine what JS could do with 6 additional second-round picks worth of talent in 3 years.

Additionally, the only significant addition the Bucs made to the O-line was drafting Tristan Wirfs with the 13th overall pick. Brady joined a team with two second-team All-Pro receivers and a promising young RB. He recruited Gronkowski and Brown (two additional all-pros). And Fournette chose to play with them because of Brady. On top of that, Brown and Fournette were on cheap deals because they are basketcases.

So how exactly do Pete and John emulate the Buccaneers? They don't have the draft capital because they've been too good, and they've traded picks away to improve their defense. The likelihood of them finding bargains like Brown, Fournette, and Gronk are relatively low. And let's remember, they did make similar moves as the Bucs; They tried to sign Brown, brought in Olsen, and attempted to revive Gordon's career. It didn't work out, but those types of moves rarely do. Furthermore, Russell's contract is anywhere from 5 to 7 million more per season than Brady's.

I guess I don't really see a blueprint for Seattle to emulate the Bucs. It's a nice thing to say. However, it's almost impossible for them to do given the context of their current situation. What are they going to do? How are they going to draft a top 15 O-lineman? Who are this year's Gronk, Brown, and Fournette? Unless you are certain you can answer these questions, to assume it's a viable way to build a team is wishful thinking.

There are going to be a lot of cuts due to the lower Cap, you build with the tools available, the Draft is probably the worst thing to use this year due to colleges having to change opponents and players sitting out and Teams not able to send scouts to watch and evaluate.

Free agents and tuning rosters. There are going to be name cuts and attempts to resign, the first wave we always set out, sometimes even the second wave, teams are going to blow their wads and we will be selective as always but there will be a lot of players to be had.

The question is what kind of players on offense is our new OC looking at, and once again is Pete going to allow what he wants to happen.

Brown is solid but our RT's have been getting beat on the edge a lot by speed guys, tells me footwork and lateral agility is needed versus road grader forward type. Zone Blocking like the Rams requires good agility and footwork as well as the backs and TE's to be able to chip guys.

 

[AROS]

At the end of the day, the sentiment across the league, media, et al, is that you never, ever, ever call out your OL publicly like he in fact did. Regardless if that wasn't his intention, that's how it came across.

So nobody on this forum or elsewhere can convince me that that alone didn't have a detrimental effect on team chemistry.

Forget everything else being discussed in this and other threads...

THAT is my biggest disappointment with Russell right now.

 

[DomeHawk]

Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

- Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

- Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

- Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

- Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this shit to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .

I agree with everything you say here until you get to the throwing players under the bus part. Russ isn't throwing players under the bus, he is doing what he feels he must do because this has went on far too long. If they won't fix it internally then he will take it to the national media, that's where we are at.

Good for him too, be proactive, you've been patient long enough. He's made it plain enuf for everyone to see, fix this or I'm gone. This is HIS career, he has every right to take control over it. And, this is the best thing for the team as well. I support Russ 100% in this.

 

[ducks41468]

I don't think it's a coincidence that so many key players from the SB team have ended up on bed terms with the organization. Lot of strong personalities, and not much accountability or management of those personalities.

 

[ducks41468]

Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

- Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

- Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

- Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

- Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this $h!t to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .

I agree with everything you say here until you get to the throwing players under the bus part. Russ isn't throwing players under the bus, he is doing what he feels he must do because this has went on far too long. If they won't fix it internally then he will take it to the national media, that's where we are at.

Good for him too, be proactive, you've been patient long enough. He's made it plain enuf for everyone to see, fix this or I'm gone. This is HIS career, he has every right to take control over it. And, this is the best thing for the team as well. I support Russ 100% in this.

Agreed. The timing is debatable, but the reality is that he spent the entirety of his career before parts of this year playing behind a poor line, and two most recent experiences were him destroyed by the Rams and then watching Mahomes get destroyed by the Bucs. No doubt at his age the recency bias and sense of urgency are coming into play.

 

[Jerhawk]

At the end of the day, the sentiment across the league, media, et al, is that you never, ever, ever call out your OL publicly like he in fact did. Regardless if that wasn't his intention, that's how it came across.

So nobody on this forum or elsewhere can convince me that that alone didn't have a detrimental effect on team chemistry.

Forget everything else being discussed in this and other threads...

THAT is my biggest disappointment with Russell right now.

:ditto: Exactly.

We all know the OL line sucks. There was zero benefit for Wilson saying what he did. He made himself look like a poor teammate and now his teammates will second guess his real intentions from here on in.

He could always make it up to them by buying them more stocks in Alaska Airlines, or, more importantly, come out and apologize or say that you misspoke or something. The silence from him and this "camp" of his is also deafening.

 

[TwistedHusky]

There was plenty of benefit for Wilson.

He improved his brand, his standing, and his power - if not the demand for his services, in a single 2 part process. First the interview, then the mini press conference.

Wilson is harnessing cognitive bias perfectly.

He was always 'the good soldier'. Built a brand on it.

So if he is speaking up now, the obvious implication is:

1. He tried everything else internally.

2. He had little choice.

His camp then released the same types of leaks referring to 1 & 2 above.

He single-handedly reversed the narrative.

He was a QB that has not delivered since the LOB loss and has not been that great in the playoffs without them.

That was literally what the media was saying about him during the pre-SB discussions about Brady, Rogers, and Wilson. A few hours before the SB started you could find it on sports talk shows. Go back and watch people talk about how he fell short of the MVP and why Carroll had to reel it in. Those discussions were out there.

Now, the narrative is that he is a fantastic QB that has been held back all this time by Carroll.

He basically pinned every playoff loss since the SB loss on Carroll. Listen to what the media is saying about him and Carroll now.

Now all he has to do is wait for confirmation bias to kick in.

He puts pressure on the organization, gets to potentially improve his OL, and might even force his way out of being under a defense-first coach to an offense-first in another city. And any shortcomings in the playoffs are all going to be pinned on Carroll...and already are being. (That has to be killing Carroll BTW.)

He polished his legacy, improved his standing, and rebuilt his brand in one fell swoop. I would be shocked if those questions were not fed to Dan Patrick before the interview. He has a history of feeding interviewers questions to open these kinds of doors.

 

[John63]

Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

- Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

- Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

- Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

- Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this $h!t to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .

I agree with everything you say here until you get to the throwing players under the bus part. Russ isn't throwing players under the bus, he is doing what he feels he must do because this has went on far too long. If they won't fix it internally then he will take it to the national media, that's where we are at.

Good for him too, be proactive, you've been patient long enough. He's made it plain enuf for everyone to see, fix this or I'm gone. This is HIS career, he has every right to take control over it. And, this is the best thing for the team as well. I support Russ 100% in this.

Agreed. The timing is debatable, but the reality is that he spent the entirety of his career before parts of this year playing behind a poor line, and two most recent experiences were him destroyed by the Rams and then watching Mahomes get destroyed by the Bucs. No doubt at his age the recency bias and sense of urgency are coming into play.

also lets remember the only player he called out needing to play better by name was himself.

 

[OrangeGravy]

There was plenty of benefit for Wilson.

He improved his brand, his standing, and his power - if not the demand for his services, in a single 2 part process. First the interview, then the mini press conference.

Wilson is harnessing cognitive bias perfectly.

He was always 'the good soldier'. Built a brand on it.

So if he is speaking up now, the obvious implication is:

1. He tried everything else internally.

2. He had little choice.

His camp then released the same types of leaks referring to 1 & 2 above.

He single-handedly reversed the narrative.

He was a QB that has not delivered since the LOB loss and has not been that great in the playoffs without them.

That was literally what the media was saying about him during the pre-SB discussions about Brady, Rogers, and Wilson. A few hours before the SB started you could find it on sports talk shows. Go back and watch people talk about how he fell short of the MVP and why Carroll had to reel it in. Those discussions were out there.

Now, the narrative is that he is a fantastic QB that has been held back all this time by Carroll.

He basically pinned every playoff loss since the SB loss on Carroll. Listen to what the media is saying about him and Carroll now.

Now all he has to do is wait for confirmation bias to kick in.

He puts pressure on the organization, gets to potentially improve his OL, and might even force his way out of being under a defense-first coach to an offense-first in another city. And any shortcomings in the playoffs are all going to be pinned on Carroll...and already are being. (That has to be killing Carroll BTW.)

He polished his legacy, improved his standing, and rebuilt his brand in one fell swoop. I would be shocked if those questions were not fed to Dan Patrick before the interview. He has a history of feeding interviewers questions to open these kinds of doors.

There's no question that's how it went down with Dan Patrick. My question is what's the point when Russell is still not gonna win another SB whether here or somewhere else? None of that narrative manipulation will last. It goes away as soon as he hits another sh!t patch of play, which will happen next season no matter where he plays

 

[jammerhawk]

I've been trying to ignore some of these threads as they turn into Pete bashing threads, and that has become tiresome as they so disrespect a very good HC and point fingers at anyone who disagrees calling them out as idiots.

In response to Aros, what can the team say other than they are disappointed that Wilson is airing out his grievances in the media instead of in-house?

Beyond that Wilson has to know the team respects him, he was made the highest paid player in the NFL when he did his last deal and has only been eclipsed by a few recent deal a few years later. He was asked for input into the recent OC change. The team knows that the pass pro has been weak and that Wilson is being hit hurried and sacked far too often.
pete wants to make other teams respect our play action by running more and running more effectively. if the team was to respond it only creates more of media circus. He said they said etc., etc..

Wilson is offering up justification for weak play the last half of the year, sadly it's truly not on him but a genuine lack of creative play calling combine d with Pete's conservativism to prevent turnovers which had started to become more commonplace as RW pressed in the Let Russ Cook mode. wilson was in part to blame for QB pressures at times and about 20% of his sacks were on him not getting rid of the ball as he tried to make magic. There is little doubt he is good at making magic happen but certainly must have known the other teams were on to what the Hawks were trying to do and he was being spied pretty closely. There is little doubt though Wilson is right, he is getting hit far too often, and the pass pro needs a lot of help to stop that from happening. He also needs a more creative O that can't be easily defended with one size fits all type D's two high safety alignments. Divisionally he needs an answer to help better protect him from Aaron Donald who owns him and regularly eat his lunch. He needs an intermediate game better play action and running and at least 1- 100 yard rusher in a season. He needs some better talent supporting him and it is worth listening to him.

This situation has quieted down a good bit since the RW media tour. Perhaps he and Pete have talked and at least understand that both want to see positive change. I'm rather sure the team has to have spoken with Wilson about redoing his contract to roll the rock down the road by taking part of his salary and guaranteeing the $ thus allowing for amortization of the balance of the deal and cap saving to deploy elsewhere.

I still think this was a situation that came at a soft news cycle time perhaps purposefully on Wilson's part but is nevertheless less overblown and has been made into a mountain instead of the molehill it truly should be.

 

[wazzuwilly]

Nailed it!!!

 

[OrangeGravy]

I've been trying to ignore some of these threads as they turn into Pete bashing threads, and that has become tiresome as they so disrespect a very good HC and point fingers at anyone who disagrees calling them out as idiots.

In response to Aros, what can the team say other than they are disappointed that Wilson is airing out his grievances in the media instead of in-house?

Beyond that Wilson has to know the team respects him, he was made the highest paid player in the NFL when he did his last deal and has only been eclipsed by a few recent deal a few years later. He was asked for input into the recent OC change. The team knows that the pass pro has been weak and that Wilson is being hit hurried and sacked far too often.
pete wants to make other teams respect our play action by running more and running more effectively. if the team was to respond it only creates more of media circus. He said they said etc., etc..

Wilson is offering up justification for weak play the last half of the year, sadly it's truly not on him but a genuine lack of creative play calling combine d with Pete's conservativism to prevent turnovers which had started to become more commonplace as RW pressed in the Let Russ Cook mode. wilson was in part to blame for QB pressures at times and about 20% of his sacks were on him not getting rid of the ball as he tried to make magic. There is little doubt he is good at making magic happen but certainly must have known the other teams were on to what the Hawks were trying to do and he was being spied pretty closely. There is little doubt though Wilson is right, he is getting hit far too often, and the pass pro needs a lot of help to stop that from happening. He also needs a more creative O that can't be easily defended with one size fits all type D's two high safety alignments. Divisionally he needs an answer to help better protect him from Aaron Donald who owns him and regularly eat his lunch. He needs an intermediate game better play action and running and at least 1- 100 yard rusher in a season. He needs some better talent supporting him and it is worth listening to him.

This situation has quieted down a good bit since the RW media tour. Perhaps he and Pete have talked and at least understand that both want to see positive change. I'm rather sure the team has to have spoken with Wilson about redoing his contract to roll the rock down the road by taking part of his salary and guaranteeing the $ thus allowing for amortization of the balance of the deal and cap saving to deploy elsewhere.

I still think this was a situation that came at a soft news cycle time perhaps purposefully on Wilson's part but is nevertheless less overblown and has been made into a mountain instead of the molehill it truly should be.

My only issue with Russell and O-line talk is that, for me, the return on O-line investment is so low. For example, in some hypothetical scenario where you could improve the O-line across the board by 50%, it will only result in something like a 15% improvement in actual on field results with a QB like Russell, Watson, etc....

That's how I see the Russell/O-line equation. Everyone agrees that this unit needs to be better. Better to me is a reduction in the complete jailbreak plays to something less than .5/game, so no more than 8 of those in the season with most of those probably coming when that unit just has a really bad day against a really good front. Combine that with being more consistent in the run game blocking and I think that's all you can really hope for from them. The other piece is the OC/scheme making up for a lot of ball holding time by Russell. 10 years in, I don't think he's gonna change much without the structure of play calls giving him no other choice but to get it out of his hand.

I suspect that Pete/John probably have similar feelings which has led to them having a tough time trying to get that formula correct. 5 all pro's across the board LT, LG,C,RG,RT would still look worse than they are with a mobile QB behind them. Obviously no team can afford that, so you evaluate everything and come up with another plan between over paying and massively under paying. Putting together an effective unit for a mobile QB is, I think, much tougher when taking in salary cap concerns.

All of that to basically say, it's a much more difficult dance to pull off with a mobile QB than it would be otherwise.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I wonder if Colts fans were calling for Manning's head when he called his O Line out in a post game presser??
I highly doubt it.

 

[Fade]

I wonder if Colts fans were calling for Manning's head when he called his O Line out in a post game presser??
I highly doubt it.

Shoot, Brady calls out his O-Line all the time in the middle of the game. :shock:

Talk about blowing things out of proportion.

First thing Wilson said also was that he needed to be better. He understands he is a part of the problem, too. But at the same time, they need to get much better up front. Wilson is holding PC & Co. accountable.



=============

No more blowing $50M in cap space on JAGs. Improve the roster, or he is leaving. The ball is in the front offices court. Let's see what they do.

Rob Staton killing it as usual.
[youtube]1_2YQO8He0M[/youtube]

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nothing Russ said was wrong. I'm glad he spoke up. I'm just laughing at how much it gets blown out of proportion. And shocked at how many people are almost taking it personal. Let alone bashing the guy and making him out to be something he isn't. He has been nothing but class his entire career. Can't say that about the "fans" who are throwing him under the bus.
And people magically create stuff that isn't close to being accurate. He flat out SAID he needs to get better at getting rid of the ball. People claim that he should put some blame on himself. Um, he did, and has for years.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Apparently, Rob Staton is my spirit animal. Agree with everything he said.

Pete has always been the problem, really since the SB loss but maybe at least a few years since the SB loss.

Pete did a lot for this team and city.

But every year he is hurting our success more than helping it now.

I honestly have no idea what Wilson was thinking.

He never should have extended and this is going to end badly for everyone involved. He plays one more year. But there is no way I see Wilson playing 2 years from now here.

None. Because there is no way Pete gets rid of himself, and that is the big problem holding everything back.

 

[GaiusMarius]

That's the weird thing about Wilson re-signing here. I always thought that he would take the $$$ (why shouldn't he?) AND that it would be clear: I am captain of the offense. Not Carroll. When the game is on the line, I call the shots on the offense, not Carroll. I am your highly paid QB and you are paying me acknowledging that I rock.

But from what we saw this last season (where Carroll and Wilson were not on the same page during the second half) that is not the case. Or Carroll went back on the deal (pray I don't alter it any further).

Or, do we think that Wilson re-signed here while not asking for the above? I have a hard time imagining that.

To me that's important because it shows that the well already has some poison in it from the LAST deal. I don't think Wilson is going anywhere this year, but he has fired a shot across the Seahawks' bow. Time to make some changes.

If we improve this year (even a poorer record, but more than a one and done in the playoffs) then all may yet be well. But I am less optimistic of improvement (12-4 is tough to do and a weak Rams team bounced us) given the challenges the team faces, which have nothing directly to do with this controversy. That's a function of little draft capital and cap challenges.

It will be hard to meet Wilson's demands for improvement. Not impossible and we have to give Schneider and Carroll the opportunity for work magic. But I think this is all about the NEXT off season, not this one. If Wilson does not like what he sees this coming season (i.e., not being captain of the offense with Carroll butting in, esp. if there are some picks), then this is all preamble for Wilson demanding an exit 1 year from now. It really comes down to what happens this season.

 

[MissoulaHawkFan]

Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

- Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

- Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

- Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

- Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this $h!t to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .

Hard disagree - if he's the leader we think he is - it won't matter and he'll work it out with Pete and his teammates. Everybody seems to conveniently be skipping the part where Dan Patrick initially asked the question, and RW did the usual cliche ramble for about 2 minutes. Dan Patrick pressed him on it and then RW gave a more candid answer. Hell he even admitted HE needed to BE BETTER at least a couple times during the more candid response.

The man has toe'd the company line for 10 years, kept it in house, has been all "Go Hawks!" and shit while basically running around like Patrick Mahomes did in the Super bowl for about 7 of those years. If the organization is pissed because he answered a question sorta candidly for the first time in 10 years, that says more about the organization than it does him.

Lastly - we've seen what Pete looks like without RW. 9 and 7 or 7 and 9. The LOB was already in place sans Bobby Wagner. RW becomes the QB (BEFORE the LOB hit it's stride in 2013) and leads Seattle to 11-5, and what should have been an NFC championship appearance, except oh wait, Pete's D gives up a drive (with only 30 seconds left in the game!) to the Falcons to kick a game-winning field goal.

 

[chris98251]

Here is what I see.

Shula great Coach and his window was the early 70's

Knoll great run mid 70's.

Johnson had his window late 80's early 90's

Walsh the early 80's till late 80's.

Landry early 70's

All these guys had windows, there are others such as Madden with the Raiders as well, but they have success windows, whether it be their systems a group of players or a staff that is in sync and work well together.

Pete may have come to the end of his window, he had success with his big Corners and systems, he had success with a generation back in Lynch and a Staff that has over time been hired by other teams.

The league adapting to his system, him being farther removed for the talent pool in college which he gleaned so well and the type of players he was selecting which other teams passed on since they were not prototypical in size for positions, has changed to where other teams choose them now based on Pete's success.

Getting Wilson fit into all the above as well.

What I am saying is also many of those teams held onto that coach too long Shula, Knoll, Landry.

Cowher eventually got Pittsburgh back to contention, Johnson's was able to get Dallas back to success, Miami is still looking, we seen the collapse after Walsh handed the controls to Seifert and he rode Walsh's players till they were gone.

You could throw The Rat in Denver into this as well until Elway retired.

Maybe we have seen the end of Pete's window, we are fading not collapsing.

Madden and Cowher, Johnson and Walsh stepped away while still a success, others retired in a losing house of cards.

Thoughts?