Sherman backing Newton..

[Laloosh]

The guy has the most yards from scrimmage in the history of the league in first 5 years, what more does he half to do?

Relax man. You can't expect an opposing fan base to fall in love with your QB. He's the competition, and while we have a healthy respect for him, not everyone is going to love him. Especially after he showed up in those pants that he paid $850.00 for!

The ones that didn't even go to his ankles?

 

[253hawk]

How did you come up with that touchdown number?

Newton has over 120 touchdowns since 2012 including rushing TDs.

Strictly passing TDs over their first 4 years, it looks like.

 

[Cary Kollins]

How did you come up with that touchdown number?

Newton has over 120 touchdowns since 2012 including rushing TDs.

Strictly passing TDs over their first 4 years, it looks like.

even still, that number comes out to 96

 

[253hawk]

Newton threw 35 this year, but it's his 5th year, so those don't count for the 'first 4 seasons'. You take the 21 he threw from 2011 instead.

 

[Laloosh]

The guy has the most yards from scrimmage in the history of the league in first 5 years, what more does he half to do?

'Half' was obviously a Freudian slip because piling up yards is only 'half' the battle if you don't get the points go with them. Yards from scrimmage are far from the entire picture. Many losses come despite grunches of 'yards from scrimmage' between the 20yd lines.

Going with the assumption that the Panthers D has been pretty good since Cam has been there, we can further assume that it all came together for him when his offensive line became all-world. Russ has never had that luxury, yet he's managed to have better numbers across the board (minus the nearly-meaningless 'yards from scrimmage' figure from a mobile QB in a spread, RO offense!).

Cam SHOULD be doing VERY well behind an OL that is AT LEAST ranked top 10 in all categories this season! Play badly behind that OL, and you shouldn't be a starting QB in this league.

First four years (Sorry, Wilson drafted one year later):

W/L record
Newton: 29-31-1
Wilson: 46-18-0
TD
Newton: 82
Wilson: 106
INT
Newton: 54
Wilson: 34
Rating
Newton: 85.4
Wilson: 101.8!
Sacks
Newton: 152
Wilson: 164
Yards from scrimmage
Newton: 16997
Wilson: 16404

Does having 600 more yards from scrimmage, over four years, compensate for having noticeably lower numbers in areas that actually count for something?

How did you come up with that touchdown number?

Newton has over 120 touchdowns since 2012 including rushing TDs.

How did you come up with that touchdown number?

Newton has over 120 touchdowns since 2012 including rushing TDs.

Strictly passing TDs over their first 4 years, it looks like.

even still, that number comes out to 96

He said (pretty plainly, first 4 years) as comparing Wilson's first 4 to Newton's first 5 would be pretty pointless (I assume).



Looks like 82 to me.

 

[Cary Kollins]

Newton threw 35 this year, but it's his 5th year, so those don't count for the 'first 4 seasons'. You take the 21 he threw from 2011 instead.

haha oh I see. I read it as the last four seasons, because why would we not count Cam's MVP season? So yes, again numbers can be used to argue any point. Not to mention "the assumption that Carolina D has been good" since Cam has been there....uh, no it hasn't.


Wilson and Newton are two different QBs, both probably going to be very good for a long time.

Wilson is like a new-age Drew Brees.

Cam isn't really comparable because no other QB has had his athletic makeup.

Wilson will probably always have better numbers in certain categories, such as efficiency, because they run completely different offenses and are asked to do different things.

 

[253hawk]

Well, it's only fair to compare the first 4 since Wilson hasn't played 5. But if you want, you can average his first 4 out and estimate a 5th season and he'd still be ahead by 14 TDs. Not bad for a guy on a team that runs almost as much as any other, plays behind a porous OL that he can't see over, and throws to UDFAs.

 

[Cary Kollins]

Well, it's only fair to compare the first 4 since Wilson hasn't played 5. But if you want, you can average his first 4 out and estimate a 5th season and he'd still be ahead by 14 TDs. Not bad for a guy on a team that runs almost as much as any other, plays behind a porous OL that he can't see over, and throws to UDFAs.

Seems silly to not include Cam's stats for this season, but honestly this is so trivial I'm over it.

Wilson is a great quarterback, a future hall of famer if he keeps it up.

 

[Uncle Si]

Newton threw 35 this year, but it's his 5th year, so those don't count for the 'first 4 seasons'. You take the 21 he threw from 2011 instead.

haha oh I see. I read it as the last four seasons, because why would we not count Cam's MVP season? So yes, again numbers can be used to argue any point. Not to mention "the assumption that Carolina D has been good" since Cam has been there....uh, no it hasn't.


Wilson and Newton are two different QBs, both probably going to be very good for a long time.

Wilson is like a new-age Drew Brees.

Cam isn't really comparable because no other QB has had his athletic makeup.

Wilson will probably always have better numbers in certain categories, such as efficiency, because they run completely different offenses and are asked to do different things.

Cam and RW are far more similar than RW and Drew Bree's. Was that comparison just because of height?

Both will be good for a long time because they share the ability to expand the offense by being multi dimensional. Cam runs a bit more designed stuff than Wilson does now. But both make plays with their feet. Wilkins a bit better if a passer, Cam a bit better of a runner.

 

[Cary Kollins]

Cam and RW are far more similar than RW and Drew Bree's. Was that comparison just because of height?

Both will be good for a long time because they share the ability to expand the offense by being multi dimensional. Cam runs a bit more designed stuff than Wilson does now. But both make plays with their feet. Wilkins a bit better if a passer, Cam a bit better of a runner.

Height, accuracy and that "sixth sense" to escape pressure.

Plus the way they go about being a leader seems very similar. It's no surprise that Brees is one of Wilson's idols.


Of course Wilson is much more mobile than Brees, hence the "new age" part.

 

[Gibbo]

His o line was off the hook good. Put him behind the Seahawks line and see the same results as he has put up all previous years.

This.

 

[kobebryant]

We like Doug Baldwin around here, do we not? I know I do. He's entering a Steve Smith type prime (size, routes, hands, yac, toughness, anger, even the # is the same).

That said, dude mimed taking a poop in the endzone during the Super Bowl and he runs his mouth at everyone who he hears slight him. So if people are going to like,dislike, or even hate players based upon their extracurricular antics they should at least be consistent and not hypocritical.

 

[Steve2222]

We like Doug Baldwin around here, do we not? I know I do. He's entering a Steve Smith type prime (size, routes, hands, yac, toughness, anger, even the # is the same).

That said, dude mimed taking a poop in the endzone during the Super Bowl and he runs his mouth at everyone who he hears slight him. So if people are going to like,dislike, or even hate players based upon their extracurricular antics they should at least be consistent and not hypocritical.

I love Doug Baldwin. If he played for another team I'd probably strongly dislike him. Plus he's not cocky anyways. If anything he's arrogant and temperamental.

 

[kobebryant]

We like Doug Baldwin around here, do we not? I know I do. He's entering a Steve Smith type prime (size, routes, hands, yac, toughness, anger, even the # is the same).

That said, dude mimed taking a poop in the endzone during the Super Bowl and he runs his mouth at everyone who he hears slight him. So if people are going to like,dislike, or even hate players based upon their extracurricular antics they should at least be consistent and not hypocritical.

I love Doug Baldwin. If he played for another team I'd probably strongly dislike him. Plus he's not cocky anyways. If anything he's arrogant and temperamental.

And I like that reasoned honesty.

Citing team allegiance is good enough for me. But when people cite Cam's unconventional behaviour as a reason for disliking him, objectively there's a handful of guys we can look inward at on the Hawks who aren't exactly conventional in their behaviour (Doug, Marshawn, Sherm and Bennett are renowned smack talkers. From the overhead view, opposing fans could objectively take issue with a lot of Seahawks as well.

I'm fine with all of it though. Pro sports is ultimately entertainment.

 

[scutterhawk]

It's a JOKE .. calm down. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Apparently Steve2222 didn't get it eh?

I have no shame admitting our QB can be a little dorky.

Dorky?, that's YOUR opinion..... as for me, I see that he's chosen to NOT follow some goofy trends, such as not wearing his bb cap turned around, or wearing one with the bill flattened.....Like Kaepernick and a few other "DORKY'S" do.

 

[scutterhawk]

Newton threw 35 this year, but it's his 5th year, so those don't count for the 'first 4 seasons'. You take the 21 he threw from 2011 instead.

haha oh I see. I read it as the last four seasons, because why would we not count Cam's MVP season? So yes, again numbers can be used to argue any point. Not to mention "the assumption that Carolina D has been good" since Cam has been there....uh, no it hasn't.


Wilson and Newton are two different QBs, both probably going to be very good for a long time.

Wilson is like a new-age Drew Brees.

Cam isn't really comparable because no other QB has had his athletic makeup.

Wilson will probably always have better numbers in certain categories, such as efficiency, because they run completely different offenses and are asked to do different things.

Cam and RW are far more similar than RW and Drew Bree's. Was that comparison just because of height?

Both will be good for a long time because they share the ability to expand the offense by being multi dimensional. Cam runs a bit more designed stuff than Wilson does now. But both make plays with their feet. Wilkins a bit better if a passer, Cam a bit better of a runner.

Wilkins? LOLOLOLOL

 

[KiwiHawk]

And I like that reasoned honesty.

Citing team allegiance is good enough for me. But when people cite Cam's unconventional behaviour as a reason for disliking him, objectively there's a handful of guys we can look inward at on the Hawks who aren't exactly conventional in their behaviour (Doug, Marshawn, Sherm and Bennett are renowned smack talkers. From the overhead view, opposing fans could objectively take issue with a lot of Seahawks as well.

I'm fine with all of it though. Pro sports is ultimately entertainment.

There are degrees. Making a first down in a critical situation is a fair call for celebration. Do it most of the time and it loses any sense of occasion and becomes tiresome. Cam seems to be that dude who doesn't get when a meme has run its course.

I get that some people are inherently more expressive and demonstrative than other people, but there's a difference between happy-to-get-pizza excitement and kid-going-to-Chuck-E-Cheese excitement.

If Cam could turn it down a bit, and choose his moments, that'd be great.

Also you mention Sherman. Do keep in mind that Sherman is playing the media to his own ends. He came on strong to promote his "brand", then mellowed out to become more approachable and is promoting his knowledge of the game and cerebral side. He still does the occasional thing to keep him being talked about, but for the most part is cementing his post-NFL opportunities. It's a far more calculated thing than what Cam is doing.

 

[kobebryant]

And I like that reasoned honesty.

Citing team allegiance is good enough for me. But when people cite Cam's unconventional behaviour as a reason for disliking him, objectively there's a handful of guys we can look inward at on the Hawks who aren't exactly conventional in their behaviour (Doug, Marshawn, Sherm and Bennett are renowned smack talkers. From the overhead view, opposing fans could objectively take issue with a lot of Seahawks as well.

I'm fine with all of it though. Pro sports is ultimately entertainment.

Also you mention Sherman. Do keep in mind that Sherman is playing the media to his own ends. He came on strong to promote his "brand", then mellowed out to become more approachable and is promoting his knowledge of the game and cerebral side. He still does the occasional thing to keep him being talked about, but for the most part is cementing his post-NFL opportunities. It's a far more calculated thing than what Cam is doing.

Very true. But for arguments sake should we not prefer someone to be the most natural and unfiltered version of themselves rather than calculated?

To me there is no right or wrong way to go about it, but a lot of what Sherm, Newton and Russ do is brand building in their own unique way. I think Russ falls more inline with the approach taken by traditionally safe corporate types like Jordan, Lebron, Tiger (prior to his fall), Jeter and that is why he may be more widely accepted.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Very true. But for arguments sake should we not prefer someone to be the most natural and unfiltered version of themselves rather than calculated?

To me there is no right or wrong way to go about it, but a lot of what Sherm, Newton and Russ do is brand building in their own unique way. I think Russ falls more inline with the approach taken by traditionally safe corporate types like Jordan, Lebron, Tiger (prior to his fall), Jeter and that is why he may be more widely accepted.

Well, that's pretty much the issue. Cam's antics make him seem like a self-important narcissist. Rarely celebrating with teammates, he tends to over-celebrate his personal achievements, and he doesn't dull the edge of it with very much humility. Lack of humility from a hero figure leads to an inevitable backlash of public opinion.

Sherman rode out the backlash and emerged as a much more humble creature, playing up his respect for guys like Larry Fitzgerald, but the backlash was always mitigated by the fact he was a founding member of the LoB and had a brotherhood thing going on that made him seem less self-absorbed. Showing respect for the elite receivers in the NFL then made it seem like he was actually a rational guy and maybe Crabtree really was that mediocre and undeserving of respect.

Russ is of course a cyborg, so don't use him as a comparison because he is only as human as his AI allows. Many think he was dorky for looking up things online to say to Ciara, but the reality is that everything he says, thinks, and feels is a result of data retrieval - the internet being a prime source - with just enough God thrown in to make people think he's not really a machine.

 

[kobebryant]

Very true. But for arguments sake should we not prefer someone to be the most natural and unfiltered version of themselves rather than calculated?

To me there is no right or wrong way to go about it, but a lot of what Sherm, Newton and Russ do is brand building in their own unique way. I think Russ falls more inline with the approach taken by traditionally safe corporate types like Jordan, Lebron, Tiger (prior to his fall), Jeter and that is why he may be more widely accepted.

Well, that's pretty much the issue. Cam's antics make him seem like a self-important narcissist. Rarely celebrating with teammates, he tends to over-celebrate his personal achievements, and he doesn't dull the edge of it with very much humility. Lack of humility from a hero figure leads to an inevitable backlash of public opinion.

Sherman rode out the backlash and emerged as a much more humble creature, playing up his respect for guys like Larry Fitzgerald, but the backlash was always mitigated by the fact he was a founding member of the LoB and had a brotherhood thing going on that made him seem less self-absorbed. Showing respect for the elite receivers in the NFL then made it seem like he was actually a rational guy and maybe Crabtree really was that mediocre and undeserving of respect.

Russ is of course a cyborg, so don't use him as a comparison because he is only as human as his AI allows. Many think he was dorky for looking up things online to say to Ciara, but the reality is that everything he says, thinks, and feels is a result of data retrieval - the internet being a prime source - with just enough God thrown in to make people think he's not really a machine.

hahaha that's perfect.