Seahawks and Wagner beginning extension discussions

kf3339

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They are right getting Wagner done and delaying Wilson's deal. He doesn't have the advantage for several years. This is not baseball.

Worst case is we franchise him for 2016 and make a decision for 2017 at that time. The pressure is on Wilson to both prove the extra value with increased production and keep healthy. If he can do both then we pay him or trade him. It's not an issue right now.

The far more important goal should be to keep the defense intact since that is our signature statement to the league.
 

Sports Hernia

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chris98251":1zb0xrhc said:
Wilson’s agent sends extensive position paper to Seahawks, 16 pages to outline what they want.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...t-sends-extensive-position-paper-to-seahawks/

Like I said this is going to go Scott Boras and Arod on us you watch.
Which is why you don't let baseball agents do football contracts. If he lets Wilson play this upcoming season for 1.5 mil, he overplayed his hand and cost his client and himself money. I don't see that happening however.
 

kearly

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Shadowhawk":8u6omebg said:
Or maybe it's neither. Maybe the team is realizing that they need to up their offer for Wilson and want to at least get the idea of what Watner is going to cost so they can determine what to do with Wilson's deal. You're right that the two are intertwined. If Wilson's agent is playing hardball, why not get an idea of what It will take to sign Wagner so they have a better idea of how to get Wilson to sign on the dotted line?

Look at how hard it's been to get Wilson to sign with Seattle leaving all their options open. Now they are possibly paying a huge chunk of their 2015 money to Wagner. If it was hard to get Wilson to sign with $13 million to work with, imagine what it might be like with $5-6 million to work with in 2015.

Not impossible, but it definitely doesn't make the negotiations easier. If it wasn't an issue, they would have signed Wagner a long time ago.
 

kearly

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hawknation2015":1mzg1d5k said:
I agree but it depends on how you define what is, and what is not, "to Wilson's advantage."

Wilson's advantage should be signing a $20+ million a year deal that both secures his future with the team and allows the team to ease into his massive salary increase, so that it can keep as many of their playmakers around him as possible. Newton recently signed such a deal, with Wilson's former agent no less.

I would argue that it is NOT to Wilson's advantage to have a drawn out, borderline-litigious negotiation process that undermines the stability of the team and his image as a team-first player. It may be to the benefit of the agent, increasing his own take-home commission, as the market value for the position rises exponentially. The same agent who just three years ago said he was too inexperienced in NFL deals to negotiate Wilson's relatively simple rookie contract.

If Wilson's long-term interest is in becoming the best player he can become -- and thereby making the most money he can on and off the field -- then I don't think such a negotiating stance is to Wilson's advantage.

There is some logic to that. I don't really disagree.

That said, I still remember when Walter Jones was going through his contract battles and it made Wilson's look like a walk in the park. He was so difficult to sign that Seattle had to franchise him three straight years before finally getting him to sign a deal. And all that fighting over money... it did zero damage to Walter Jones image. Generally speaking, as long as a player signs back with his own team, fans tend to not hold it against him for using his collectively bargained rights to the fullest extent.

On the other hand, it is fairly common for relationships to be damaged from contract negotiations or other financial decisions. We've seen hints of that with Bennett, Marshawn, and Irvin this offseason. When Graham was traded here, Loomis admitted that part of the reason he was willing to trade Graham was because their relationship got very awkward after they went back and forth battling over Graham's 2014 contract extension. Steve Hutchinson felt disrespected by Ruskell and Reinfeldt, and that led to him and his agent concocting a poison pill to sign away from Seattle.

While I do think Wilson will probably be a Seahawk for life, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at all worried about a possible relationship strain that comes of this if the battle goes on a very long time and continues to feel personal. Wilson has already shown signs of emotional strain on twitter from it.

Regarding Wilson taking a little less money to help the team, I'm not saying it's wrong to think this way, but players generally don't do hometown discounts, at least not on their first big contract.

And as I've said before, Wilson's 'real' value to the team in terms of wins added per dollar is way higher than $20 million. I feel that Wilson is an elite QB who is solely responsible for about 33% of his teams win total, so I'm okay with him asking for 16% of his team's cap space.

I also think the amount of wins added from $1-2 million a year is really small. Every little bit counts and all that. Part of what makes JS a great GM is his frugal and disciplined nature. If he could sign Wilson for $20 million, then obviously I'd be applauding him. I just think that if he signs Wilson for a little more, it's not the end of the world. And besides that, it should be abundantly clear at this point that getting Wilson for only $20 million AYP in new money is a total fantasy. It will never happen.

Seattle is probably better off compromising a bit right now for many reasons. I think it saves money in the long term (Wilson's demands will probably be much higher after Andrew Luck gets paid). The longer this takes, the bigger the contract will end up being.
 

theincrediblesok

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The FO has to know that the time to get Wilson's contract done is before Luck does his. Seeing as how all the other young QBs just got some pretty good amount per year I would think that they know Luck will get his and it will be costly for them to try to keep Wilson if it gets to the point where they can't reach a deal with him. On the other hand if Wilson does want to be paid as the highest paid player in the NFL, he could just play this whole thing out while getting franchised until Luck signs his big contract.
 

Anthony!

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hawknation2015":3uf40b9u said:
kearly":3uf40b9u said:
If paying Wagner had no impact on signing Wilson to an extension this offseason, they would have signed him months ago.

So to me, this development hints that either Seattle and Wilson are extremely close to announcing a deal or that they are so far apart that the FO has basically given up on getting a deal in 2015. And given that Wilson's agent just sent JS a 16 page manifesto about the conditions that must be met, I'm guessing it's not the former.

I don't know what the two sides are arguing over, but I do know that waiting plays to Wilson's advantage, so long as he doesn't get hurt next year. If WIlson stays healthy and sees a spike in production with his new weapons, Seattle might be lucky to get Wilson at $25 million AYP next year.

I agree but it depends on how you define what is, and what is not, "to Wilson's advantage."

Wilson's advantage should be signing a $20+ million a year deal that both secures his future with the team and allows the team to ease into his massive salary increase, so that it can keep as many of their playmakers around him as possible. Newton recently signed such a deal, with Wilson's former agent no less.

I would argue that it is NOT to Wilson's advantage to have a drawn out, borderline-litigious negotiation process that undermines the stability of the team and his image as a team-first player. It may be to the benefit of the agent, increasing his own take-home commission, as the market value for the position rises exponentially. The same agent who just three years ago said he was too inexperienced in NFL deals to negotiate Wilson's relatively simple rookie contract.

If Wilson's long-term interest is in becoming the best player he can become -- and thereby making the most money he can on and off the field -- then I don't think such a negotiating stance is to Wilson's advantage.

well maybe they will offer 20+ mil as of now what we have heard is 80 over 4 years which is less than Tennenhill and Cam. So maybe the Fo should talk a look at what others are being paid and pay him whats fair rather than say hey its Wilson unlike everyone else he will take what we offer. FYI he has only 2 top playmakers Lynch and JG so not a whole lot to be kept around him. Tell me when they redid Shermans, ET, or Kams deal did you say the should take whatever so they could keep playmakers around them? They did not they paid them top money. Did you say this when Lynch held the team hostage not once but twice? I am guessing not, but hey its Wilson any Qb would do why bother.
 

Anthony!

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theincrediblesok":10zbsbo5 said:
The FO has to know that the time to get Wilson's contract done is before Luck does his. Seeing as how all the other young QBs just got some pretty good amount per year I would think that they know Luck will get his and it will be costly for them to try to keep Wilson if it gets to the point where they can't reach a deal with him. On the other hand if Wilson does want to be paid as the highest paid player in the NFL, he could just play this whole thing out while getting franchised until Luck signs his big contract.

I will say the same thing I have aid before, maybe the FO does not view Rw the way he should be Maybe they feel any Qb would do, maybe they think those other QBs are better. At this point you have 2 teams Carolina and Miami paying their QBs top Money or close to it, and ours if we believe the 4 year 20 mil mark has not as of now offered top pay. I might be wrong but at this point with everything said it is a possibility they do not view Rw as a top QB. Maybe them getting Graham was more about getting more talent o they can get a cheaper answer at QB.
 

kearly

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theincrediblesok":1bpn4ngs said:
The FO has to know that the time to get Wilson's contract done is before Luck does his. Seeing as how all the other young QBs just got some pretty good amount per year I would think that they know Luck will get his and it will be costly for them to try to keep Wilson if it gets to the point where they can't reach a deal with him. On the other hand if Wilson does want to be paid as the highest paid player in the NFL, he could just play this whole thing out while getting franchised until Luck signs his big contract.

I think that's exactly what's going on. It's why Wilson is talking so much about playing for $1.5 million in 2015. Why his agent is sending 16 page manifestos. They know 2016 is golden. It's going to take a big ass offer to make them settle before then.
 

ringless

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My personal hopes are that both Wagner and Wilson play out this year on their current contracts....
 

hieroglyphics

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Lords of Scythia":rva36d47 said:
The Wilson one is obviously going to be painful and prolonged. They probably just want to get on with business. The FO will save $ for Wilson--it's not like Wally Walker is our GM.

I miss the days where the only problem with the Sonics was the front office.
 

hieroglyphics

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The longer Seattle holds out for Wilson signing, the better for the team anyway if they expect the cap to increase. Wilson gets his and Seattle is still able to make room for more talent.

Not to mention, just as there will be a young player who will break through this year and take a future role in the organization, there will inevitably be a dropoff of some pricey player this year as well, leaving more long-term room for Wilson.

Its not a bad move to wait and see what happens for Seattle.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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chris98251":13whsyvn said:
Wilson’s agent sends extensive position paper to Seahawks, 16 pages to outline what they want.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...t-sends-extensive-position-paper-to-seahawks/

Like I said this is going to go Scott Boras and Arod on us you watch.
Typical for quarterback negotiations they're always full of drama if you're trying to lock one down that's elite. Relax it's how the game is played.

Smart to get things rolling with Wagner though. I expect that to go pretty smoothly.
 

seahawksTopGear

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kearly":2lcrlgir said:
theincrediblesok":2lcrlgir said:
I think that's exactly what's going on. It's why Wilson is talking so much about playing for $1.5 million in 2015. Why his agent is sending 16 page manifestos. They know 2016 is golden. It's going to take a big ass offer to make them settle before then.

I see things a little differently, the FO would be ecstatic if Willson where to take a team friendly contract. Barring that I believe that they would be pretty happy making Willson exactly what he wants, the highest payed QB in the NFL. They can't do that while he has a year at 1.5million and they can't do it while Luck does not finalize his contract.

So he will play this year for 1.5 mill, Luck will get his contract (under 23 mil a year because it will fold his remaining years in) and then we will sign Willson at 24mil for 4 years (1.5mil + 4*24 = 19.5 mill a year for the next five years, a steal, they may go as high as 25mil and still come up fine)

This will make everybody win, FO can easily afford with raised cap. The seahawks will boast of having the best/highest payed QB on the league and show they support homegrown talent and Willson will hopefully play his heart out for this team the way he has been so far.

If willson ends up half a mil under Luck he will not be happy for the next four years, and I think the FO knows this.
 
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