Schottenheimer Play Calling?

[olyfan63]

Bevell could not use his personnel adequately, he could not call plays that used their strengths, he was predictable. Cable had his huge issues but so does Bevell. Bevell is so good there are teams stumbling over themselves to hire him and he is still waiting to pick the right offer I guess.

TRUTH.
"The Pick" in SB XVIX was primarily a result of Bevell's crap job of
1) Asking overmatched personnel to do things that were too big a stretch (Kearse pushing Browner off the line)
2) Bevell failing to use personnel strengths, like going to a #6 WR on the biggest play of all.
3) Bevell being overly predictable, to the point Browner knew exactly what play was coming, and aligned his teammates.

The last few games, it seems like Schottenheimer has found the rhythm, has the right guys in to execute successfully for key plays.

This game, the offense had a lot fewer "negative plays"; the sack of Russell on first down, back to the 5 yard line or so, was the most negative play I recalled. Then Schotty and Solari seemed to massively improve the blitz pickup work after that, for the rest of the game.

Aint it amazin to have an O-Line coach and an Offensive Coordinator that are singing from the same sheet of music? In hindsight, it's hard to fault Bevell as much as before, because he had to try to make plays work with Cable's crap O-Line. Leaving Russell to try to make up the difference. All we ever dreamed of was just to have an NFL-average O-Line, and now we actually have an above-average O-Line.

I suppose the first step in getting functional as an offense was to remove the dysfunction.
So refreshing to see a functional offense this year. Picking up 3rd and 2 on the ground. Rushing TD's consistently from goal-to-go at the 1 or 2 yard line. 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4, etc. conversions improving by the week, with short passes being successful.

I have to say, Norv Turner, with a reputation as a great NFL offensive mind, called a great game for the Panthers today. Schotty's offense, as boring and predictable as many of us feared it might be at the start of the season, matched Turner's offense play-for-play today, against a *very tough* Carolina defense, and then raised him one play.

 

[justafan]

My point wasn't that Bevell or Cable were good; only that that the head coach gets credit for success if he take the heat for failure.

I got your point. He pulled the plug on all the key figures that were screwing up the team chemistry in my opinion.He should get credit.

I think with all the changes made with personnel and coaching staff this has been his best coaching job he has done since he got here.

Schotti, Solari and Norton were a great fit at the right time.If not for xs and os just for becoming a TEAM again.

 

[knownone]

3rd and long is hard to convert in the NFL.

You need 1 of 2 things.

A big time target. Julio Jones, Gronk, etc., preferably with some size. Seattle throws to David Moore often in these situations he is 6'0''.

Or an inept defense, or a bust in coverage. 3rd and long is very hard to convert, and cannot be converted even semi consistently.

Will Dissly could be that guy in the future, but it is hard to say now that he severely hurt his knee.


Schotty overall is a big upgrade over Bevell, but is he in no way shape or form a passing game savant. He was brought in to improve the running game, and help Wilson become more disciplined as a pocket passer, working with him on little fundamental things.

He is doing a good job overall, but nothing that would get him a Head Coaching job. (Great OCs are now the future Head Coaches of this league.)

I agree, a surefire #1 receiver like Julio or Hopkins would make this offense elite.

I'll give Schotty a pass on his passing scheme. We're the 8th best passing offense in terms of big plays. Considering 6 of the 8 teams in front of us have 7 or more wins, I can live with our relatively bland looking scheme.

 

[semiahmoo]

Bevell could not use his personnel adequately, he could not call plays that used their strengths, he was predictable. Cable had his huge issues but so does Bevell. Bevell is so good there are teams stumbling over themselves to hire him and he is still waiting to pick the right offer I guess.

TRUTH.
"The Pick" in SB XVIX was primarily a result of Bevell's crap job of
1) Asking overmatched personnel to do things that were too big a stretch (Kearse pushing Browner off the line)
2) Bevell failing to use personnel strengths, like going to a #6 WR on the biggest play of all.
3) Bevell being overly predictable, to the point Browner knew exactly what play was coming, and aligned his teammates.

The last few games, it seems like Schottenheimer has found the rhythm, has the right guys in to execute successfully for key plays.

This game, the offense had a lot fewer "negative plays"; the sack of Russell on first down, back to the 5 yard line or so, was the most negative play I recalled. Then Schotty and Solari seemed to massively improve the blitz pickup work after that, for the rest of the game.

Aint it amazin to have an O-Line coach and an Offensive Coordinator that are singing from the same sheet of music? In hindsight, it's hard to fault Bevell as much as before, because he had to try to make plays work with Cable's crap O-Line. Leaving Russell to try to make up the difference. All we ever dreamed of was just to have an NFL-average O-Line, and now we actually have an above-average O-Line.

I suppose the first step in getting functional as an offense was to remove the dysfunction.
So refreshing to see a functional offense this year. Picking up 3rd and 2 on the ground. Rushing TD's consistently from goal-to-go at the 1 or 2 yard line. 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4, etc. conversions improving by the week, with short passes being successful.

I have to say, Norv Turner, with a reputation as a great NFL offensive mind, called a great game for the Panthers today. Schotty's offense, as boring and predictable as many of us feared it might be at the start of the season, matched Turner's offense play-for-play today, against a *very tough* Carolina defense, and then raised him one play.

Man, that's a great post.

Really well done.

 

[semiahmoo]

3rd and long is hard to convert in the NFL.

You need 1 of 2 things.

A big time target. Julio Jones, Gronk, etc., preferably with some size. Seattle throws to David Moore often in these situations he is 6'0''.

Or an inept defense, or a bust in coverage. 3rd and long is very hard to convert, and cannot be converted even semi consistently.

Will Dissly could be that guy in the future, but it is hard to say now that he severely hurt his knee.


Schotty overall is a big upgrade over Bevell, but is he in no way shape or form a passing game savant. He was brought in to improve the running game, and help Wilson become more disciplined as a pocket passer, working with him on little fundamental things.

He is doing a good job overall, but nothing that would get him a Head Coaching job. (Great OCs are now the future Head Coaches of this league.)

I agree, a surefire #1 receiver like Julio or Hopkins would make this offense elite.

I'll give Schotty a pass on his passing scheme. We're the 8th best passing offense in terms of big plays. Considering 6 of the 8 teams in front of us have 7 or more wins, I can live with our relatively bland looking scheme.

Another good point. The offense is just a couple pieces from being very-very-very good and Schotty is at the center for that transformation. His "bland scheme" is a new OC working within the confines of his QB. Russ has strengths but also some glaring weaknesses. In a relatively short amount of time Schotty has managed to minimize those weaknesses, accentuate the strengths, and Russ is clearly more comfortable and effective because of it. Would have been nice to see what could have been say, two seasons earlier, with Schotty here, an O-line not hampered by Cable's incompetence, and most of our dominant defense still in place. Could have been something special.

We are in the here and now, though. It hasn't always been a smooth Schotty transition but as of now, a pretty darn successful one given the offense is outperforming almost all earlier expectations.

GO HAWKS!

 

[Lords of Scythia]

After week 2, two ugly losses, offense looking awful, there was a fair amount of disgust with Schottenheimer and his handling of the offense.

What do people think of Schottenheimer's play calling body of work at this point? And his handling of Russell Wilson and the seeming higher level of authority that Russell has this year?

What I saw that I liked today is that Schotty and the O coaches identify matchups that develop during the game, based on guys getting injured, and less-capable backups coming in. Several of the 'Hawks big plays came against a rookie backup DB that replaced an injured guy. And, they made it look natural within the context of the offense, without twisting or perverting the offense.

Also, today, with Carolina stuffing/limiting our running game, Schotty adjusted to go to the passing game more, without totally abandoning the run game.

I'm seeing much better situational awareness from the offensive braintrust overall than what we saw in the Bevell/Cable years. The OFFENSE won this game today. The defense made just enough plays, one more play than the Panthers, to allow the offense to pull out the win.

Also today, we picked up short yardage 1st downs with runs a couple times. Our improved O-Line sure helps. And I'd credit Schottenheimer for getting in good personnel packages, e.g., Fant playing TE, that make "predictable" plays more successful.

I'll say he could stand to improve on third-and-long, but only because it feels like our D gives up more 3rd-and-long conversions than our O picks up, and it feels like we "concede" on too many 3rd and longs. (Double-edged sword, maybe being more aggressive results in more turnovers)

What are people seeing from Schotty in the play-calling and adjustments that they like?
Where are there blind spots or predictability issues where Schotty & Co. could stand to improve?

Figuring out which players are weak is a standard thing all coordinators do, and how to exploit it. The situation changed when dude got injured, so they changed their attack. Any play-caller would do that.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chris98251]

After week 2, two ugly losses, offense looking awful, there was a fair amount of disgust with Schottenheimer and his handling of the offense.

What do people think of Schottenheimer's play calling body of work at this point? And his handling of Russell Wilson and the seeming higher level of authority that Russell has this year?

What I saw that I liked today is that Schotty and the O coaches identify matchups that develop during the game, based on guys getting injured, and less-capable backups coming in. Several of the 'Hawks big plays came against a rookie backup DB that replaced an injured guy. And, they made it look natural within the context of the offense, without twisting or perverting the offense.

Also, today, with Carolina stuffing/limiting our running game, Schotty adjusted to go to the passing game more, without totally abandoning the run game.

I'm seeing much better situational awareness from the offensive braintrust overall than what we saw in the Bevell/Cable years. The OFFENSE won this game today. The defense made just enough plays, one more play than the Panthers, to allow the offense to pull out the win.

Also today, we picked up short yardage 1st downs with runs a couple times. Our improved O-Line sure helps. And I'd credit Schottenheimer for getting in good personnel packages, e.g., Fant playing TE, that make "predictable" plays more successful.

I'll say he could stand to improve on third-and-long, but only because it feels like our D gives up more 3rd-and-long conversions than our O picks up, and it feels like we "concede" on too many 3rd and longs. (Double-edged sword, maybe being more aggressive results in more turnovers)

What are people seeing from Schotty in the play-calling and adjustments that they like?
Where are there blind spots or predictability issues where Schotty & Co. could stand to improve?

Figuring out which players are weak is a standard thing all coordinators do, and how to exploit it. The situation changed when dude got injured, so they changed their attack. Any play-caller would do that.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not any play caller.............

 

[olyfan63]

Figuring out which players are weak is a standard thing all coordinators do, and how to exploit it. The situation changed when dude got injured, so they changed their attack. Any play-caller would do that.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

The point was that Schottenheimer and Co. are actually being *successful* at exploiting the favorable matchups that develop during a game. And doing so without twisting or gyrating the offense to an absurd degree. During the Bevell/Cable years, I have no doubt that Bevell *tried* to exploit favorable matchups when they appeared (Case in point, Chris Matthews in SB49 1st half, successful until Patriots adjusted), it's just that the Bevell/Cable dysfunction was so bad that there was limited success. Or are these announcers today just much better at pointing out the matchups and how Seattle is taking advantage of them?

In the Bevell years, the O-Line pass protection was typically so bad that Russell would wind up scrambling for his life, or sacked, before he could deliver a ball to take advantage of a favorable matchup.

Now, the O-Line actually pass-protects decently much of the time, and on the 4th and 3 TD pass to Moore, Carolina *blitzed* and Seattle's O-Line *Picked up the blitz*, giving Russell the time and pocket he needed to deliver a TD strike. I think that play also targeted one of the backup/3rd string/rookie Carolina DBs.

In the Bevell/Cable years, that blitz doesn't get picked up, Russell is under immediate pressure, scrambling for his life, maybe gets sacked, maybe forces a throw that gets picked.

Re the announcers, I think the answer to my own question is that previous years' announcing crews were so busy calling the pass rush and Russell's scramble that it was a moot point to try explain how Seattle was taking advantage of favorable matchups that had appeared during the game.

 

[HoldYourHawk]

Pete wanted to have a dominant run game and Schotty thus far has delivered it. It will be interesting to see the growth from the entire team next season with the same system and personnel returning.

 

[scutterhawk]

Schotty is more responsible for our wins than Pete.

The OC hired by the HC is more responsible for our wins than the HC. :34853_doh:

Ya right? LOLOL.
Hatred clouds good judgement. :17:

 

[semiahmoo]

Bevell could not use his personnel adequately, he could not call plays that used their strengths, he was predictable. Cable had his huge issues but so does Bevell. Bevell is so good there are teams stumbling over themselves to hire him and he is still waiting to pick the right offer I guess.

TRUTH.
"The Pick" in SB XVIX was primarily a result of Bevell's crap job of
1) Asking overmatched personnel to do things that were too big a stretch (Kearse pushing Browner off the line)
2) Bevell failing to use personnel strengths, like going to a #6 WR on the biggest play of all.
3) Bevell being overly predictable, to the point Browner knew exactly what play was coming, and aligned his teammates.

The last few games, it seems like Schottenheimer has found the rhythm, has the right guys in to execute successfully for key plays.

This game, the offense had a lot fewer "negative plays"; the sack of Russell on first down, back to the 5 yard line or so, was the most negative play I recalled. Then Schotty and Solari seemed to massively improve the blitz pickup work after that, for the rest of the game.

Aint it amazin to have an O-Line coach and an Offensive Coordinator that are singing from the same sheet of music? In hindsight, it's hard to fault Bevell as much as before, because he had to try to make plays work with Cable's crap O-Line. Leaving Russell to try to make up the difference. All we ever dreamed of was just to have an NFL-average O-Line, and now we actually have an above-average O-Line.

I suppose the first step in getting functional as an offense was to remove the dysfunction.
So refreshing to see a functional offense this year. Picking up 3rd and 2 on the ground. Rushing TD's consistently from goal-to-go at the 1 or 2 yard line. 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4, etc. conversions improving by the week, with short passes being successful.

I have to say, Norv Turner, with a reputation as a great NFL offensive mind, called a great game for the Panthers today. Schotty's offense, as boring and predictable as many of us feared it might be at the start of the season, matched Turner's offense play-for-play today, against a *very tough* Carolina defense, and then raised him one play.

Absolutely 1000% right.

Well done.

 

[Atradees]

i like that that some of you guys talk so much you feel pretty. the o coordinator is new.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Still think the biggest turnaround for the offense is Solari. We can run and pass protect this year. We’ve been awful for the last two years at that. This year with a decent OL, suddenly the offense is competent.

I have no doubt that Bevell could adequately coordinate this version of the Hawks.

Put your lack of doubt in a trash bin. We're not as stupidly predictable as we used to be, and that's all on the OC.

 

[chris98251]

i like that that some of you guys talk so much you feel pretty. the o coordinator is new.

No I don't feel pretty, I am pretty If you were away or under a rock or new to the Forum some of us pointed out these shortcomings for three years with Cable and Bevell.

 

[DJ_CJ]

Schotty scheme plus Solari on line I would say is working all right considering we are leading rushing team along with red zone scoring...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KiwiHawk]

i like that that some of you guys talk so much you feel pretty. the o coordinator is new.

No I don't feel pretty, I am pretty If you were away or under a rock or new to the Forum some of us pointed out these shortcomings for three years with Cable and Bevell.

If by "pointing out" you mean "spewing an incessant litany" then I agree.

 

[TwilightError]

Schotty is more responsible for our wins than Pete.

That's what I think.

Russ is looking more and more comfortable which is great to see. And yes, much more authoritative which I remarked last season he needed to be. He's the team's star. Don't be afraid to sound off from time to time.

All in all, as said weeks earlier, this team is a lot more fun to watch this season vs recent previous ones.

GO HAWKS!

Russ looking more authoritative is the key. I believe it’s partly because the articles about melting locker room had some truth to them and the players who found it impossible to be under Wilson’s authority are now gone. So Russ can take his place as the number one leader in the team.

Partly it probably is because Schotty and Russ have found the way they get the best out of their new partnership. It just seems to work well right now.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Schottenheimer is great at designing run plays, but his passing game is lackluster. He calls some really weird pass plays, and does some weird things in certain situations. Hard to know if it's Schottenheimer or Pete behind the passing game, because it looks kind of similar to some of the pass plays Bevell called, and Pete stated that it is 70% his offense. I'm not talking about volume either, I'm talking about the design of the pass plays. Personally I think Wilson would looked even better if some of these pass plays were fixed.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Schottenheimer is great at designing run plays, but his passing game is lackluster. He calls some really weird pass plays, and does some weird things in certain situations. Hard to know if it's Schottenheimer or Pete behind the passing game, because it looks kind of similar to some of the pass plays Bevell called, and Pete stated that it is 70% his offense. I'm not talking about volume either, I'm talking about the design of the pass plays. Personally I think Wilson would looked even better if some of these pass plays were fixed.

Seemed to work this week.

 

[Threedee]

Still think the biggest turnaround for the offense is Solari. We can run and pass protect this year. We’ve been awful for the last two years at that. This year with a decent OL, suddenly the offense is competent.

I have no doubt that Bevell could adequately coordinate this version of the Hawks.

I think Bevell would coordinate this season's offense slightly less competently than a half-eaten ham sandwich. One of the primary reasons why this version of offense has taken form is the massive addition-by-subtraction that is not having Darrell F. Bevell a part of it.