Schneider- Recoup Kam's signing bonus because of holdout?

[Ozzy]

Kap chilled with Kam in the club just to get close to a ring.

Does PC/JS not see the mental affect this has on a rival?

And they treat the 2nd best defender on the team (Bobby is #1) like he's expendable.

Kam isn't the 2nd best defender, Wags is. Earl is #1.

I have no idea why many in the fan base don't give Sherman more respect. I think its a guilt thing because other fans don't like him. Wags/Kam are great, they aren't even close to Sherman.

 

[Hasselbeck]

They probably need to throw him a bone though...maybe guarantee next year's salary or convert a couple million of it into a bonus for this season.

No.. they don't. You do that for Kam, then you have to do that for Bennett. Then you probably have to do it for Avril. And Matthews had a great SB so give him more too. And on, and on, and on, and on.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

They probably need to throw him a bone though...maybe guarantee next year's salary or convert a couple million of it into a bonus for this season.

No.. they don't. You do that for Kam, then you have to do that for Bennett. Then you probably have to do it for Avril. And Matthews had a great SB so give him more too. And on, and on, and on, and on.

Yeah I just don't see how Kam wins this one.

Lynch had some leverage, and some incentive bonus that COULD be moved over to guaranteed last year. As far as I know, Kam isn't there with his contract, AND he still has three years left.

I hope this doesn't get contentious, but it could if Kam draws the line in the sand and refuses to come into camp.

 

[dontbelikethat]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JosinaAnderson/status/629288939401166848[/tweet]

Leverage play, but it is what it is. She's close to the entire LOB.

 

[Jerhawk]

I love kam, and I'm not too worried about this holdout. While it would be nice to have him in camp, I'd rather have him fully healthy and rested when the season begins. He has nothing to prove to the team. He'll be back and motivated

 

[mikeak]

Revis has said it, and it really is true... it's not the players responsibility to manage a teams cap. .

Agree with that, but if the player ignores the cap then they do so with the understanding that they only care about playing for the team with the most money to pay and not the best chance of winning. This is fine and it is the A-Rod to Texas mentality but then don't come complaining later when your team sucks

If a player decides they would rather stay home and eat cheetos than play for the team, or wants to go to a different team or pursue another career rather than play for the money that is being offered, that is their own choice. Just because the Seahawks can only pay Kam 4.5 million, doesn't mean he has to play for that. He can very much decide that 4.5 million isn't lucrative enough for him to get off the couch.
.

He absolutely has the option to sit on the couch

He absolutely does NOT have the option to play for a different team. He is under contract. He can choose to retire or holdout until a new contract from Seahawks emerge or Seahawks trade him as they decide. He does not have the ability to go somewhere else nor does he have the opportunity to sit out this year and go somewhere else next year.

Personally I have no real issue with players 3 years completed on a 4 year contract that wants more money before the 4th year starts. I don't have any issue with marginal players that suddenly emerge as stars wanting more money because they are underpaid

I do most definately have an issue with good / star players making good contracts and then one year in wanting a new one just like Bennett and Kam. There is a bit of a risk involved in signing multi-year contracts but these guys just look at the base salary and ignore everything else. Sometimes you underperform a little bit and sometimes you overperform a bit - being paid like a "walk-on" and being a star is different than being paid like a very good to great player and outperforming that slightly

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If this was next year or 2017 and Kam had an injury free season and no drop off in play I'd understand this holdout.

But Kam was dinged up last year at the beginning, and had a serious injury to end the year. Not saying he's not a big part of our D, but the timing of not only where he's at with his contract, but health wise doesn't work for me. IMO he's getting some bad advice.

 

[dumbrabbit]

This may or may not be the best place for this, but I just wanted to point it out.

I find it funny how the fans support the players against the "greedy owners" in collective bargaining negotiations, yet are against players holding out for more money during training camps. I just don't understand this. In this case people are suggesting that Kam and Bennett are considered "Greedy players" and should just show up, yet the owners get blasted more for being "greedy" and stealing money from the players.

The whole thing is a business and I respect that. Football careers are shorter than other sports and have longer lasting health effects; a player's career is a money grab. At this point all I hope for is a resolution that both parties can be happy about.

 

[rideaducati]

I would tell him that he either honors his contract or he retires. I would go after the signing bonus too. As of right now, I would tell him he has 24 hours to report to camp or the Seahawks will be coming after signing bonus money and fine money. A team can't cave in to players under contract for three more years.

 

[Redsand187]

Revis has said it, and it really is true... it's not the players responsibility to manage a teams cap. .

Agree with that, but if the player ignores the cap then they do so with the understanding that they only care about playing for the team with the most money to pay and not the best chance of winning. This is fine and it is the A-Rod to Texas mentality but then don't come complaining later when your team sucks

If a player decides they would rather stay home and eat cheetos than play for the team, or wants to go to a different team or pursue another career rather than play for the money that is being offered, that is their own choice. Just because the Seahawks can only pay Kam 4.5 million, doesn't mean he has to play for that. He can very much decide that 4.5 million isn't lucrative enough for him to get off the couch.
.

He absolutely has the option to sit on the couch

He absolutely does NOT have the option to play for a different team. He is under contract. He can choose to retire or holdout until a new contract from Seahawks emerge or Seahawks trade him as they decide. He does not have the ability to

I'm not saying he can go walk to another team and start playing. But for whatever reason he can say he doesn't want to play for the Seahawks anymore, hold out and tell them he wants to be traded, that he isn't going to come back to this team. They then have the option of getting rid of him for something, or getting rid of him for nothing.

A player can choose not to play for whatever reason they want. Maybe Kam just refuses to wear the new neon green jersey at camp :lol: A player can't be forced to play for any reason, so in the same spirit a player can refuse to play for any reason, whether it's not being paid what they want, or because they have developed a phobia of grass.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This may or may not be the best place for this, but I just wanted to point it out.

I find it funny how the fans support the players against the "greedy owners" in collective bargaining negotiations, yet are against players holding out for more money during training camps. I just don't understand this. In this case people are suggesting that Kam and Bennett are considered "Greedy players" and should just show up, yet the owners get blasted more for being "greedy" and stealing money from the players.

The whole thing is a business and I respect that. Football careers are shorter than other sports and have longer lasting health effects; a player's career is a money grab. At this point all I hope for is a resolution that both parties can be happy about.

I'm OK with holdouts, when they make sense and the player has leverage. I see neither in Kam's case.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

If this was next year or 2017 and Kam had an injury free season and no drop off in play I'd understand this holdout.

But Kam was dinged up last year at the beginning, and had a serious injury to end the year. Not saying he's not a big part of our D, but the timing of not only where he's at with his contract, but health wise doesn't work for me. IMO he's getting some bad advice.

Ones destiny is determined by who he choses to believe. Sounds to me that perhaps he is receiving bad advice or perhaps he is being "egged on" by uneducated advisors. I don't need to tell him what to do....he knows what is right.

 

[Hawks46]

Revis has said it, and it really is true... it's not the players responsibility to manage a teams cap. .

Agree with that, but if the player ignores the cap then they do so with the understanding that they only care about playing for the team with the most money to pay and not the best chance of winning. This is fine and it is the A-Rod to Texas mentality but then don't come complaining later when your team sucks

If a player decides they would rather stay home and eat cheetos than play for the team, or wants to go to a different team or pursue another career rather than play for the money that is being offered, that is their own choice. Just because the Seahawks can only pay Kam 4.5 million, doesn't mean he has to play for that. He can very much decide that 4.5 million isn't lucrative enough for him to get off the couch.
.

He absolutely has the option to sit on the couch

He absolutely does NOT have the option to play for a different team. He is under contract. He can choose to retire or holdout until a new contract from Seahawks emerge or Seahawks trade him as they decide. He does not have the ability to

I'm not saying he can go walk to another team and start playing. But for whatever reason he can say he doesn't want to play for the Seahawks anymore, hold out and tell them he wants to be traded, that he isn't going to come back to this team. They then have the option of getting rid of him for something, or getting rid of him for nothing.

A player can choose not to play for whatever reason they want. Maybe Kam just refuses to wear the new neon green jersey at camp :lol: A player can't be forced to play for any reason, so in the same spirit a player can refuse to play for any reason, whether it's not being paid what they want, or because they have developed a phobia of grass.

Here's the problem with that logic: when a team trades for a player, typically they're also trading for their contract. Players that have terrible contracts that hurt teams typically don't get traded for the full whammy. Either the team cuts them, or the player has to agree to a restructure.

That said, Kam is already one of the highest paid safeties in the league. Unless Jacksonville or Atltanta steps up to over pay Kam, I don't see a lot of teams getting in line to pay Kam 8-10 million a year (his contract was for what, 6 mi/year?). Ask New Orleans how much they're loving the Jairus Byrd contract right now.

 

[two dog]

I like the way Schneider is handling this. He's saying they won't redo the deal but at the same time, all the praise he's throwing Kam's way is avoiding things getting better. What's everyone's gut feeling? Could this really extend to the point where the team takes the field Week 1 in St. Louis with no Kam?

I think they could and would start the season without Kam. If management caves on this
then every guy and his dog will be lined up outside their door.

They could make some cosmetic contract tweaks to let Kam save face but they simply
can not do a new contract. First, they don't have the available wiggle room under the cap
and second, the consequences for dealing with the rest of their players would be lethal.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If this was next year or 2017 and Kam had an injury free season and no drop off in play I'd understand this holdout.

But Kam was dinged up last year at the beginning, and had a serious injury to end the year. Not saying he's not a big part of our D, but the timing of not only where he's at with his contract, but health wise doesn't work for me. IMO he's getting some bad advice.

Ones destiny is determined by who he choses to believe. Sounds to me that perhaps he is receiving bad advice or perhaps he is being "egged on" by uneducated advisors. I don't need to tell him what to do....he knows what is right.

Confucius in the house.

 

[ivotuk]

This may or may not be the best place for this, but I just wanted to point it out.

I find it funny how the fans support the players against the "greedy owners" in collective bargaining negotiations, yet are against players holding out for more money during training camps. I just don't understand this. In this case people are suggesting that Kam and Bennett are considered "Greedy players" and should just show up, yet the owners get blasted more for being "greedy" and stealing money from the players.

The whole thing is a business and I respect that. Football careers are shorter than other sports and have longer lasting health effects; a player's career is a money grab. At this point all I hope for is a resolution that both parties can be happy about.

This is very true. I don't begrudge the owners or the players for making their money. But let's not forget, Uncle Sam collects a HUGE portion of that money EVERY time it changes hands.

So the IRS gets part of the 9 billion everyone loves to say the owners are getting, then they get close to half of the millions that players are getting paid. And that the Referees are getting paid, and the stadiums, and the cheerleaders, etc etc.

But I really don't want to hear about a players short career. I've had on the job injuries that effected my career, and if I would have had a couple of million in the bank at the time plus 1st class health insurance to cover all the subsequent surgeries, I'd be in great shape. But I don't.

And neither do tens of thousands of American workers who get injured working for some small or large business. The next time you see someone in a wheelchair (like happened to a friend of mine), think about a player complaining about his short career and what he sacrifices.

So I don't want to hear any indication of not being fairly treated by NFL players who get paid big bucks to play a Nationally televised game. And that enjoy all that celebrity. And I doubt that players who suffer like Jesse Williams has want to hear it either.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

It's a ridiculous hold out that'll amount to nothing.

The Seahawks aren't going to cave and we all know he isn't really going to sit out any regular season games. Idle threats.

A sorry, disappointing episode. We all appreciate Kam and the fact you put your body on the line -- but you're paid handsomely for that sacrifice already. You're basically choosing to throw away thousands of dollars every day. If you surrender 15% of your signing bonus ($150k) that's more than a lot of people earn in several years of hard graft. And the players dare to say things like, "well the fans can say what they want, we know it's a business blah blah blah." Totally ignoring a lot of fans DO sacrifice a lot to earn much less.

I wish I could afford to not go to work for a week to try and force a pay increase.

Only one winner here.

 

[mrt144]

I don't know, I've been with my job for 8 years and they feel it every time I'm out of the office for a week on vacation and I get told "What would we do without you?" 8 years with raises every year, even through 2007-2009 but I'm also an odd duck who would be happy living in yurt so long as I got some plants growing outside and Sunday Ticket inside.

Am I the only one here who isn't bothered by Kam's desires even if the mechanism of achieving it seems wholly ineffective?

Simultaneously, trotting out the lunchpail guilt trip seems a bit ridiculous when you realize we're all beating off to the prospect of the effort of 53 players, coaching staff and management winning the Superbowl as if it serves the greater good of our lives beyond warm feels associated with winning. Is the emotional payoff of a potential Superbowl worth the attention and money we give? (This is somewhat rhetorical as this is a fan site for the team and I'm here, as a fan)

 

[brimsalabim]

I guess this makes sense. A signing bonus is paid as a reward for getting your contract done so teams can then move forward and work other deals. I love Kam but it makes sense to me that a player refusing to honor their contract should have to return the bonus money they received for agreeing to said contract.

 

[Scottemojo]

Getting about tired of all these players not happy with the current millions they are making. You're like on year two of your of your 4 year contract that you signed. Maybe you should have thought about this a year ago ...

I just roll my eyes at the people who think players should honor their contracts when the team never has to be held to the same standard. The team can terminate their contract with the player at any time.

Obviously, the player can terminate his contract with the team at any time as well.

The team can terminate at any time, but they would still owe the guaranteed portion of the contract. See: Percy Harvin.

Fans make this quote about it not being as fair for players as for teams. But if Kam had a career ending injury, the team would still have to pay the Guaranteed portions of his deal. It goes both ways.

In fact, teams give huge signing bonuses to players, bonuses that really are pay for years not yet played.

I don't really have a problem with Kam's holdout except for one thing, when he was originally extended the Hawks made him the example for how they treat players who have the right kind of approach to the team sport. He was pretty much the first Pete Carroll pick to be singled out like that. He bought his mom a house, it was a really touching story. Late round pick works hard, and him and team appreciate each other.

This holdout has the feel of Kam seeing other contracts, a bit bigger than his, and feeling unappreciated.

Or maybe he is just pulling a big Walt and avoiding some training camp.