Russell Wilson and the Quick Release

[RolandDeschain]

I think it has been mostly Russ. He has had to ignore his own tendencies to get this rhythm game.

Yet, the tipping point in the Russell-vs-Flynn debate was a preseason game where he played Peyton-Manning-at-his-best from the pocket all day before he was ever even named the starter.

I don't buy it. I think our coaching staff has been overly conservative with his passing development and that he actually would have been better off with a little more trial by fire as far as passing more goes, but I don't have any solid factual evidence to base this on; call it a hunch.

Certainly our highly mediocre (at best) pass protection that Russell has had for his NFL career to date has played a role, too.

 

[Sarlacc83]

Like the OP says, the advent of a quick passing game is a big deal. The only question is why it took this long.

Damn good question and I'm not sure there's a legitimate answer, personally.

I'm still not convinced it'll stay, either.

I think it has been mostly Russ. He has had to ignore his own tendencies to get this rhythm game.

I agree with Scotte.

Though I will add that I also think it's partly Unger. I think Max helps recognize those times when Russ is going to see the blitz, and if they can communicate, even through Wilson listening to the line calls, that is a tremendous help.

 

[Scottemojo]

Like the OP says, the advent of a quick passing game is a big deal. The only question is why it took this long.

Damn good question and I'm not sure there's a legitimate answer, personally.

I'm still not convinced it'll stay, either.

I think it has been mostly Russ. He has had to ignore his own tendencies to get this rhythm game.

I agree with Scotte.

Though I will add that I also think it's partly Unger. I think Max helps recognize those times when Russ is going to see the blitz, and if they can communicate, even through Wilson listening to the line calls, that is a tremendous help.

A lot of the rhythm passing has been with backups at center too though.

Pat Kirwan called our offense (and trust me, it was complimentary, much like our very simple defense) a well executed high school offense. Play action, boots, zone block. I have laid a lot of that on the OC, but Russ has some share too.

I look at it like this. Lots of QBs trust their arms, often too much. That is Luck's single biggest remaining flaw. Wilson trusts his play extending ability, to the point he has used it too much when he didn't have the playmakers for it. Our defense is built on the premise that most offenses are neither patient enough nor good enough at executing to sustain long drives, yet our offense was neither patient nor able to execute long drives. For our offense to be multiple enough for the different defenses we face, it had to get better at a quick game.

I LOVE that we are finally utilising the middle of the field and hot routes with increased regularity and focus.

Like Pete has said repeatedly, they have been asking this of Russ for a while, and he is the one who made the change. Pete has mentioned no other facet of the offense as having to make a change for this rhythm game, just Russ.

 

[Sarlacc83]

I'm only 31, but I am clearly getting too old to remember that last week was Unger's first game back. Might as well just give up now and settle into the inevitable senility.

At least I can still be a mod.

 

[bigskydoc]

I don't buy it. I think our coaching staff has been overly conservative with his passing development and that he actually would have been better off with a little more trial by fire as far as passing more goes, but I don't have any solid factual evidence to base this on; call it a hunch..

I don't know. There appeared to be a pretty dramatic switch in the playcalling, and what we ask/allow Wilson to do, that started in week 12 vs the Cards. Not incidentally, that is when we started winning. We sort of went back to basics and eliminated some of the flashier and more experimental stuff (not to mention the damn useless screens). Russ went back to a more disciplined style of play and started wearing the playbook on his wrist again. The quick, mid-range, passing attack with blitz beaters made an appearance, and we started winning. I truly believe they reigned Wilson in a little bit starting with that game.

If I had one criticism of Wilson and the way that Carrol has elected to develop him, it would be that Carrol is pressuring him to be elite just a little too quickly. Give him some time to learn to read and react to NFL defenses and make plays before asking him to finish the season with a 70% completion rate. Earlier in the season, I think we were asking him to trust his arm a little too much, rather than make plays and use his arm when he felt it was right. Then again, that same pressure brought home a Lombardi, so what do I know?.

Ever since that AZ game kicked off, Wilson has shown that he is quite good at recognizing and adjusting to the obvious blitz. He also does well with patience against an obvious 4 man rush. What he still struggles with is post-snap adjustment to disguised coverage. If you disguise a blitz and bring it, he struggles to recognize it and make the quick play. If you show blitz and pull out of it, he struggles to read it and adjust to the lack of pressure, instead goes straight to a hot route.

All of this is stuff he will learn and adjust to. The kid is only in his 3rd season, and even in this day and age of accelerated player development, he is ahead of the curve but should be given some time to learn and develop.

- bsd RPA

 

[RolandDeschain]

I would definitely have to disagree there, regarding pressuring Wilson to be elite too fast. I think our offensive formations and play calling tendencies over the past couple of seasons have made it harder for Wilson to progress. If you ranked all 32 NFL offenses based on how predictable they are for opposing defenses to figure out, I think we'd likely be bottom five, maybe even bottom three. (Based overall on the past couple of seasons.) If you're going to be boringly predictable on offense, your execution has to be very, very good overall. The game last weekend was one of only a few in the past three seasons where we really took what a defense was giving us as far as working our offense goes. I hope we continue in that direction.

 

[kidhawk]

I would definitely have to disagree there, regarding pressuring Wilson to be elite too fast. I think our offensive formations and play calling tendencies over the past couple of seasons have made it harder for Wilson to progress. If you ranked all 32 NFL offenses based on how predictable they are for opposing defenses to figure out, I think we'd likely be bottom five, maybe even bottom three. (Based overall on the past couple of seasons.) If you're going to be boringly predictable on offense, your execution has to be very, very good overall. The game last weekend was one of only a few in the past three seasons where we really took what a defense was giving us as far as working our offense goes. I hope we continue in that direction.

Funny you mention predictability. According to Sherman, most NFL OC are predictable and boring.

“If it’s third down,” Sherman says, “a lot of times you can look at the formation and know the play, especially if it’s a team you’ve played this season.”

How is that possible?

In short, NFL play-callers are boring. Sherman estimates about 26 teams run the same handful of plays on third down. Of the teams he’s played over the last two years, he can think of three that don’t: New England, Denver and New Orleans.

Saw it in the article posted here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105517


Hopefully our offense can become one of the not so predictable third down offenses he mentions, and I think adding this quick read passing game to our other tools can give us that element.

 

[Scottemojo]

Notice Sherm didn't include Seattle in his unpredictable list.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Notice Sherm didn't include Seattle in his unpredictable list.

Yeah, because he's got such a history of bashing people on his own team. It's really telling that he didn't bring up Bevell.

:roll:

Funny you mention predictability. According to Sherman, most NFL OC are predictable and boring.

And look at who my favorite OC would be: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105533#p1541401 He just happens to work for the Patriots.

 

[Scottemojo]

Notice Sherm didn't include Seattle in his unpredictable list.

Yeah, because he's got such a history of bashing people on his own team. It's really telling that he didn't bring up Bevell.

:roll:

I should have included a stir the pot icon.

 

[kidhawk]

Notice Sherm didn't include Seattle in his unpredictable list.

It does say "of the tems he's played the last 2 years"....He never played against Seattle, so that wouldn't be included no matter what his thoughts were on the matter.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I should have included a stir the pot icon.

Probably. I'm mentally wiped out after digging up all those old quotes from me to prove Sarlacc wrong in the other thread.

 

[formido]

Wilson has had quick passes since he was a rookie. This isn't new. He was near the top of the league in passer rating for the first several games of this very season on quick passing, with a concomitant low YPA, but then had a transition period when the offense had to find its identity without Harvin.

Folks always do this, "Russell Wilson has found his quick passing game" too. No, it's always there. Maybe sometimes he doesn't pull the trigger as much as he could, but whether quick passing will be successful depends on the defense also. It works great against bad to good defenses. It works well against the best defenses if you have a specific mathcup advantage, like Larry Foote on Luke Willson or Antonio Gates on Kam Chancellor. But not every team is going to have obvious mismatches to take advantage of. Where were Wilson's quick passes against St. Louis, which is smack dab in this new era of quick passing?

What's good about Wilson is that, when he faces elite pass defenses that turn a quick passing game into nothing but empty plays, like Buffalo does to Aaron Rodgers or Seattle does to Peyton Manning, or worse turns it into a quick and dangerous way to throw away the game, like when Matt Ryan too confidently and rhythmically throws 4 picks to Arizona, he has resilience to his game and can cope with it. If a QB becomes too reliant on quick passing, he becomes susceptible to being fooled and losing against the best pass defenses.

Wilson takes what the defense gives him and can also force the issue.

 

[kidhawk]

Wilson has had quick passes since he was a rookie. This isn't new. He was near the top of the league in passer rating for the first several games of this very season on quick passing, with a concomitant low YPA, but then had a transition period when the offense had to find its identity without Harvin.

Folks always do this, "Russell Wilson has found his quick passing game" too. No, it's always there. Maybe sometimes he doesn't pull the trigger as much as he could, but whether quick passing will be successful depends on the defense also. It works great against bad to good defenses. It works well against the best defenses if you have a specific mathcup advantage, like Larry Foote on Luke Willson or Antonio Gates on Kam Chancellor. But not every team is going to have obvious mismatches to take advantage of. Where were Wilson's quick passes against St. Louis, which is smack dab in this new era of quick passing?

What's good about Wilson is that, when he faces elite pass defenses that turn a quick passing game into nothing but empty plays, like Buffalo does to Aaron Rodgers or Seattle does to Peyton Manning, or worse turns it into a quick and dangerous way to throw away the game, like when Matt Ryan too confidently and rhythmically throws 4 picks to Arizona, he has resilience to his game and can cope with it. If a QB becomes too reliant on quick passing, he becomes susceptible to being fooled and losing against the best pass defenses.

Wilson takes what the defense gives him and can also force the issue.

There's a huge difference that maybe you're missing or just ignoring, but Pete said they have been specifically working on in the second half of this season. Having it and having it at a high level are completely different things. It takes more than just the qb to be able to complete these passes properly.

 

[scutterhawk]

Like the OP says, the advent of a quick passing game is a big deal. The only question is why it took this long.

Lack of continuity maybe?
Okung, Unger, Carpenter, Richardsons' development, not having Z. Miller, the re-formulating of plays, because of all the game plans on how they were going to use with Harvin in place, the over all lack of time to getting all these changes ironed out.

RW isn't going to be able to do it all by his lonesome either, I think the development of his O-Line, Receivers and TE's has played a big part to his advancement (all the parts progressing together)
I do think Pete wants to see Wilson evolve alright, but first and foremost, I think he want's Wilsons progression to include maintaining ball control.

 

[volsunghawk]

Notice Sherm didn't include Seattle in his unpredictable list.

Yeah, because he's got such a history of bashing people on his own team. It's really telling that he didn't bring up Bevell.

:roll:

Funny you mention predictability. According to Sherman, most NFL OC are predictable and boring.

And look at who my favorite OC would be: http://seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105533#p1541401 He just happens to work for the Patriots.

I don't like the McDaniels idea. Go look at how the Pats offense finished in the years that McDaniels wasn't there. Virtually no different from now. When McDaniels went to Denver, they were a middling offense at best under his HC tenure, and then his lone year in St. Louis resulted in a bottom-of-the-league finish. Take him from Brady, and I don't think he's special in any way.

Plus, I don't see how a lateral move does McDaniels any good. Why would he leave New England when he'll likely have a great shot at inheriting that gig when Belichick is done and have an easier path to deep playoff runs each year?

 

[Sarlacc83]

I should have included a stir the pot icon.

Probably. I'm mentally wiped out after digging up all those old quotes from me to prove Sarlacc wrong in the other thread.

Half-true. You took your sweet time, and did not in relation to when I actually asked the question abour 5 coordinators which is what I was referring to. (I should have spelled it out, though.) Next time I will remember to comb your posts for when you make up your mind, though.

 

[DavidSeven]

If you've been reading between the lines earlier this season, or listening to what was actually said by our owner last week, you know that there has been opportunity for Russell to get the ball out faster. I think this has been something that people who are more reasoned in their evaluation of Russell have been talking about since early in the season. I've heard direct quotes from Carroll and Cable that there has been opportunity to get the ball out faster, that the protection and passing opportunities were there, etc.

Russell is a young quarterback. He is not going to diagnose a blitz with the same effectiveness of Manning or Brady. He also had to deal with four starting centers, no Zach Miller, a new receiving group, and the Harvin playbook getting scrapped. However, compare him to other young QBs, and I guarantee you that he is ahead of the game. It's all part of the maturation process, and the things he's been showing these last several weeks are beautiful signs.

 

[theincrediblesok]

I think it's all part of the game plan and maturing Wilson along slowly to the NFL level of each type of passes. The same way we saw Richardson only taking short passes but barley get him deep. Get Richardson to learn the basic easy stuff first before getting him to the more riskier passes.

The good thing about it is there is barely any quick passes to see on tape and now teams don't know what's been hitting them. Defenses rely so much on QB's tendency that if something was new they wouldn't know how to deal with it. Early in the season our WR corps concern was that they couldn't go deep and we didn't have a deep threat, and that's because defenses were blanketing our WR. Throw in the quick passes now some of the DB's will have to play closer to the line giving our guys some breathing room to make plays. At least that's how I'm seeing it as of lately.

 

[Mick063]

I haven't really heard much talk about it by any of the national media, and really haven't even heard much discussion about it by our own fans.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104237&p=1520136#p1520136

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104127&p=1518108#p1518108

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104058&p=1517723#p1517723

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=102896&p=1501551#p1501551

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=102896&p=1500724#p1500724

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98687&p=1445049#p1445049

Someone has far too much free time...you want a cookie or something for this?

I just don't get this response...why not just add to the topic?

I prefer snickerdoodle please.

In payment for six links directly related to the thread topic as opposed to your bitch session, a bigger waste of time, which appears to add nothing to the topic.