Robert Turbin and a missed touchdown
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hawknation2015
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People are going to blast Turbin, and he is not my favorite rusher, but the thing that stopped him on this play was Britt suddenly getting knocked back by Denver's LE.
Wow . . . what a disappointing start for Britt. My thoughts had been so absorbed with the center and left guard positions that I took Britt’s development for granted. This is a player who allowed the most pressures in the NFL last season, so really that was a bit of willful blindness on my part.
It's clear that Britt has lost weight, presumably to improve his mobility as an outside pass protector. Unfortunately, the new slimmed down Britt has sacrificed the strength that made him a palatable player last season. He got knocked back on a bull rush from Von Miller (admittedly, by a great player) but that is not something that happened as frequently last season when he had that extra upper body strength. Last season, he was the one knocking guys back, even if he was beaten at times by speed rushers. He was also much less effective as a run blocker, as this play showed.
In an ideal world, Britt would be playing inside at guard at his prior weight, where his run blocking would shine and he would have a tighter window to work in pass pro. But this isn't an ideal world and that ain’t happening this year, or in the near future, because they have left the depth at OT so thin. Jesse Davis is an NFL player in name only; he would struggle in the CFL. Gilliam is even worse than Britt in pass pro. Like last season, we are just going to have to live with some of the pressures coming from the right side (J.R. Sweezy was also beaten pretty badly in the red zone).
Wow . . . what a disappointing start for Britt. My thoughts had been so absorbed with the center and left guard positions that I took Britt’s development for granted. This is a player who allowed the most pressures in the NFL last season, so really that was a bit of willful blindness on my part.
It's clear that Britt has lost weight, presumably to improve his mobility as an outside pass protector. Unfortunately, the new slimmed down Britt has sacrificed the strength that made him a palatable player last season. He got knocked back on a bull rush from Von Miller (admittedly, by a great player) but that is not something that happened as frequently last season when he had that extra upper body strength. Last season, he was the one knocking guys back, even if he was beaten at times by speed rushers. He was also much less effective as a run blocker, as this play showed.
In an ideal world, Britt would be playing inside at guard at his prior weight, where his run blocking would shine and he would have a tighter window to work in pass pro. But this isn't an ideal world and that ain’t happening this year, or in the near future, because they have left the depth at OT so thin. Jesse Davis is an NFL player in name only; he would struggle in the CFL. Gilliam is even worse than Britt in pass pro. Like last season, we are just going to have to live with some of the pressures coming from the right side (J.R. Sweezy was also beaten pretty badly in the red zone).
The author of the article is describing a running back who didn't get to the correct gap on a correctly blocked play. The run coordinator has stated many times that the running back must get to the correct gap. What the running back does after he gets thru the hole is up to him. That is the understanding the run coordinator has with Marshawn Lynch and that is what he expects from all running backs.
hawknation2015
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Jville":2h8cayek said:
What you also don't see in that picture is Alvin Bailey standing in the way of that red line. The reason a RB would cut back against the flow of play to find a seam is because the designed running lane is blocked. That was true on this play because of Bailey. All that said, I think Turbin gets much closer to the end zone if not for Britt suddenly getting owned.
hawknation2015
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People see things on twitter and they assume they are true without doing their own critical thinking.
Here's what I'm talking about:
Bailey pulls and fails to open up a hole.
This ends up forming a wall of bodies to the right side of the line.
See the wall of bodies now?
This forces Turbin cut back to find the open space to his left.
But that suddenly closes when Britt is knocked back.
Here's what I'm talking about:
Bailey pulls and fails to open up a hole.
This ends up forming a wall of bodies to the right side of the line.
See the wall of bodies now?
This forces Turbin cut back to find the open space to his left.
But that suddenly closes when Britt is knocked back.
hawknation2015
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Jville":3jchmdni said:
The reason that picture, which was posted on twitter, is highly misleading is because it implies that there is a free path between Cottom and Britt . . . when in reality, Bailey and the Broncos' Davis are standing in that space. There is sometimes good cause for the RB to cut back, and this was one of those necessary situations.
But, yes, you are entitled to your own opinion that Turbin ignored the correct play without any justification. The All-22 should give us an even clearer view of how little space there was on that right side.
HN2015 look at the blue LOS and them compare where Britt is in every picture you posted. At worst he is still on the LOS in the last picture. I wouldn't call this getting blown back as you repeatedly said. Also the guy Britt is blocking is falling down forward as you can see he is nearly bent all the way over in the second to last picture. What I see here is that Turbin runs right into him and is tackled. The play was designed to run off the back of Britt and Willson who both sealed the left side of the hole. You can tell that because you see their backs in just about every pic. Bailey is pulling and seals off the right Isolde of the hole along with Baldwin. Both blocking to their right. The all-22 won't show a huge hole like in the Richardson pic, but it will show the backs of his blockers sealing the left and right sides of a normal size hole that an NFL running back should expect to see and run through. All defenders to the end zone were accounted for and correctly blocked and it should have been a TD easy.
hawknation2015
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HansHawk":1d4k08kt said:
You really have to watch the actual play . . . the pictures do not do it justice in showing Britt suddenly getting knocked back by Wolfe, who makes the tackle. Britt had an initial push on the play, but then was pushed back behind the line of scrimmage, closing off the cut back lane that I think Turbin saw on the left side.
I am looking forward to seeing a forward angle on this play from the All-22, which I think will be definitive.
Tical21
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I need to watch the play. What ended up happening? Marshawn stays to the playside and scores on the right. You've got a hat for every defender on that side except for the safety. As a RB, you're not watching what happens with Britt or Bailey, you're feeling the second and third level defenders, which to me dictate staying playside.
hawknation2015
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Tical21":i6yau648 said:
He runs into Britt and gets tackles by Wolfe. I think Marshawn would have cut it back too, like he did during his TD run in the Super Bowl, only I think he runs around Britt and powers it in.
Tical21
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If he goes right he walks in, but I digress.
Britt actually doesn't do a bad job there. His guy submarined him, which is what he's taught to do at the goal line, and there are very, very few tackles with a low enough center of gravity to root the guy out once he does it. The defender is essentially giving himself up and diving onto the ground to try to make a pile, and Britt just gets a little unlucky that the whole thing ends up in Turbin's lap. Britt did wash his guy a number of yards to the left, and made a HUGE hole behind him. When you cut a run back, you risk the playside linemen riding their guy right into the play. The real good ones don't cut it back too often. If the numbers are right, they'll stay patient with the playside, which would have resulted in a score in this case.
Britt actually doesn't do a bad job there. His guy submarined him, which is what he's taught to do at the goal line, and there are very, very few tackles with a low enough center of gravity to root the guy out once he does it. The defender is essentially giving himself up and diving onto the ground to try to make a pile, and Britt just gets a little unlucky that the whole thing ends up in Turbin's lap. Britt did wash his guy a number of yards to the left, and made a HUGE hole behind him. When you cut a run back, you risk the playside linemen riding their guy right into the play. The real good ones don't cut it back too often. If the numbers are right, they'll stay patient with the playside, which would have resulted in a score in this case.
hawknation2015":2nzarbk2 said:
https://twitter.com/pff_steve/status/633038809450549248
There is the play. I responded to it on Twitter earlier in the day. Britt is sealing the interior and just needs to keep Wolfe away from the hole, which he does by angle blocking him away from the play side. The best way to follow the intended design of this play is to watch the LG Bailey the entire time. See Bailey pull to his right and and get a block on the LB? Now look at all the blue jerseys completely engulfing every white jersey on both sides of the hole.
Britt was blocking with every intention of having Turnin run behind him, not in front of him. It was never designed as a straight up block. I think that's where your disconnect is with others who are watching this play. Sure, if Britt was lined straight up and was blocking straight ahead then that would be a poor block. But, the goal of this block was to seal that edge to create a seam behind Britt. You can also see Willson cracking down and also sealing that edge down field. When Turbin cuts left he is running right into where those two are blocking their defenders to.
I also believe the video shows there is a seam between Britt and Bailey about a yard wide. That's all an NFL running back can ask for near the goal line. I just don't know how else you could run that play? Wolfe going upfield after he was knocked back should have had zero effect on the outcome in my opinion. Due to Turbins cutback it did.
peppersjap
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Here is what I'm thinking..........it was the 1st pre-season game! Relax!!!!!!
Scottemojo
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Turbin came into the league with a rep for running to darkness. A guy he has by 20 pounds between him and the goal? within a yard of the goal line? It should be a no brainer to hit the hole and go right at that guy.
Turbin had more than one play where he danced a bit instead of just following the design. Maybe it is the surgeries, but he is tentative.
Turbin had more than one play where he danced a bit instead of just following the design. Maybe it is the surgeries, but he is tentative.
sam1313
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HN 2015, thanks for posting the actual play. I read the article, but I don't think you can tell from the stills what happened. Originally, I thought the author of the article was incorrect as the pictures did not make it look like a hole was present on the right side. After reviewing the video, however, I think I agree Turbin should have stayed right. I understand how he thought he should go left, because for a moment there appears to be a gaping hole to the left. However, it was likely the wrong decision.
Basis4day
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[vine]ep1q5vVP7Bb[/vine]
Gifs and vines are better for this sort of thing.
Gifs and vines are better for this sort of thing.
mikeak
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He is clearly going left to an open path when Britt gets knocked back into him and takes out his hip / legs
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