Robert Turbin and a missed touchdown

[hawknation2015]

He is clearly going left to an open path when Britt gets knocked back into him and takes out his hip / legs

Thank you! I'm still waiting to view the All-22 . . . how long do they wait to release it in the preseason?

This shows one of the many blindspots that PFF possesses. Due to timing concerns, they are forced to make judgments and grade players without seeing forward angles on a lot of plays. Turbin clearly looks to go right initially, then squares his body to look for a cut back, which indicates to me that there was not sufficient space to go right. And given that Bailey's massive frame was occupying that tiny space, I seriously doubt it was adequate.

 

[hawk45]

I dunno, to me the GIF cements the impression that Britt was trying to seal his defender not block him straight up the field, and that he succeeded. I guess ideally he wouldn't have given ground just in case there was a cutback, but Britt is trying to turn his man and give him to chance playside and does that. If Britt doesn't turn his defender so effectively, and Turbin runs where the play is designed, the defender is hanging out in the hole with a chance to snake an arm or leg out from behind Britt's block or dive sideways.

There wasn't a mack truck hole on the right side of the line but Lynch hits that hole every time for the score because every man has a hat on his guy. I guess I can see why twinkletoes Turbin thought it wasn't enough of a hole for him. Someone might have brushed up against his ankles.

 

[Hawks46]

I didn't play much RB, and I was known for bouncing it outside at times, but looking at it from above, you have nothing but blue jerseys between you and the goal line on the right side.

Hard to say what it looks like from behind the play view, but it appears he should've taken the cut to the right.

I would also be interested to see how Michael would've ran that play.

 

[Tical21]

He is clearly going left to an open path when Britt gets knocked back into him and takes out his hip / legs

Except that by design, he is supposed to push his guy to the left, which he did for five good yards. You will not see a better hole than that around the goal line. If Turbin didn't see it, that's his own damn fault and a reflection of his poor vision, not of a lineman that did a damn good job on that play. I GUARANTEE you Britt got a plus on the grade for that play. I don't know much about a whole lot of what goes on out there, but I have graded thousands of hours of line play. You completely wash your guy out of the hole, you get a plus.

As a defensive lineman, you're taught that if you're getting pushed out of your hole, you hit the ground so you can't get pushed any further. Try to make a pile and make a mess and and hold your ground. That's what happened. And Turbin ran himself right into it. There are literally three or less tackles in the game that would have done any better on that particular play than what you got from Britt. That play was blocked perfectly by just about everyone, and Turbin should have walked into the end zone. Look at that hole open up. That is exactly how this play was drawn up. Down block, down block, kickout by the pulling guard, walk into the end zone. The walk into the end zone was the only part missing.

 

[Chawker]

Real time vs frame by frame. Nobody in could do any better, unless your real name is Marshaw Lynch. cheers

 

[Scottemojo]

He is clearly going left to an open path when Britt gets knocked back into him and takes out his hip / legs

Except that by design, he is supposed to push his guy to the left, which he did for five good yards. You will not see a better hole than that around the goal line. If Turbin didn't see it, that's his own damn fault and a reflection of his poor vision, not of a lineman that did a damn good job on that play. I GUARANTEE you Britt got a plus on the grade for that play. I don't know much about a whole lot of what goes on out there, but I have graded thousands of hours of line play. You completely wash your guy out of the hole, you get a plus.

As a defensive lineman, you're taught that if you're getting pushed out of your hole, you hit the ground so you can't get pushed any further. Try to make a pile and make a mess and and hold your ground. That's what happened. And Turbin ran himself right into it. There are literally three or less tackles in the game that would have done any better on that particular play than what you got from Britt. That play was blocked perfectly by just about everyone, and Turbin should have walked into the end zone. Look at that hole open up. That is exactly how this play was drawn up. Down block, down block, kickout by the pulling guard, walk into the end zone. The walk into the end zone was the only part missing.

Run blocking? We know Britt is good at it. Looked to me like Turbin was supposed to go right, and didn't. There is no way for me to know for sure.

D gets paid too, right?

 

[Jville]

My motivation for the original link was to provide an example of when a play fails because a ball handler fails to trust his blocking. QBs, RB's and all ball handlers defeat the work of their own blockers when they deviate from the design. Cable has said that if a ball handler deviates .... it better work. As another example, running back Thomas Rawls hesitates in trusting his blockers below. This one involves timing in contrast to the original direction example.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/633768993648611328[/tweet]

Building trust is a work in progress in every training camp. Trust is built as the new 2015 team accumulates more time working together.

 

[hawknation2015]

My motivation for the original link was to provide an example of when a play fails because a ball handler fails to trust his blocking. QBs, RB's and all ball handlers defeat the work of their own blockers when they deviate from the design. Cable has said that if a ball handler deviates .... it better work. As another example, running back Thomas Rawls hesitates in trusting his blockers below. This one involves timing in contrast to the original direction example.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/633768993648611328[/tweet]

Building trust is a work in progress in every training camp. Trust is built as the new 2015 team accumulates more time working together.

That hole is much more obvious to me, but we will just have to wait and see from the All-22.

 

[Tical21]

Marshawn is about as patient playside as anybody. He's hardheaded. If we have enough guys over there to go hat on hat, he's going that way. He knows you can sometimes get a couple extra yards hitting a cutback, but the play working correctly is how you pop big runs. The scheme is designed to get Marshawn 1 on 1 with a safety. Guys on the backside aren't accounted for. You've got a scraping OLB and a safety and sometimes a corner. If they really overplay, cutback is huge, but the guys that consistently cutback too early don't last very long. When they say a guy is a patient runner, what they're really saying is that he stays playside. He keeps looking for that 1 on 1. It could take a couple quarters for him to get it, but once he does, he hits it.

 

[Smellyman]

The good news is it wasn't the turf monster that got him.

 

[Scottemojo]

There have only been a couple of occasions when Turbin got more than a handful of carries, but in those instances I thought he got better after he had a few runs.

Perhaps his real problem is that he just doesn't get a chance to get warmed up. 5 or 6 carries a game is not enough to get him in the flow of the game. I know Lynch sometimes takes a while to get into the flow of the game.

 

[Smellyman]

There have only been a couple of occasions when Turbin got more than a handful of carries, but in those instances I thought he got better after he had a few runs.

Perhaps his real problem is that he just doesn't get a chance to get warmed up. 5 or 6 carries a game is not enough to get him in the flow of the game. I know Lynch sometimes takes a while to get into the flow of the game.

He's ok. I like Turbin, but if it takes him a while than he is in the wrong role and they should find someone else who doesn't. He is never going to get many carries.

 

[lobohawk]

Have seen Lynch miss holes just a badly as described here. It happens and means little in the short run.

 

[Tical21]

Have seen Lynch miss holes just a badly as described here. It happens and means little in the short run.

Stop it! Step in the middle of a pissing match and you're going to end up with a yellow shirt!

 

[hawknation2015]

 

[mikeak]

He is clearly going left to an open path when Britt gets knocked back into him and takes out his hip / legs

Except that by design, he is supposed to push his guy to the left, which he did for five good yards. .

Valid point - Britt going backwards into the spot he did is not an issue if Turbin goes right

Still despite play design and a good run to the right many players have made the adjustement. He sees what looks like a huge hole and it probably is a correct read despite being opposite to what was called. I think it is a TD except for just as he cuts really close to Britt - Britt is tackled backwards.

That isn't to put blame on Britt it is just a statement of facts. Turbin's hip gets taken out completely shutting him down. One step further left and he probably clears it, one split second earlier and he makes it through......

 

[RastaHawk12!]

I would also be interested to see how Michael would've ran that play.

My guess is it would have wound up being Denver's ball, but that's just me.. :mrgreen:

 

[Exittium]

if only that was the last play of the damn game.. :229031_banghead: :229031_banghead: :229031_banghead:

 

[kearly]

Great stuff Tical.

I'm not the biggest fan of Turbin's career to date, but I see what Scottemojo means in regards to a RB getting a feel for the game.

 

[hawknation2015]

More than Britt getting knocked back into the cutback lane, Alvin Bailey needed to get his ass out of the hole.

It doesn't sound like Bailey performed well in practice today either.

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