Richardson vs Levis

[WarHawks]

If you had to choose between the two, which one would you take and why? Discuss.

 

[renofox]

Richardson.

Both are a gamble. Odds of either one becoming a top-10 starter are pretty low.

But if Richardson does develop, he has the tools to reach GOAT level.

Sometimes longshots do hit.

 

[James in PA]

Richardson (for us). Higher ceiling.

But if Im a team that needs one of them to start sooner rather than later, I'm going with Levis. He has a high ceiling too and is more pro-ready.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Levis and its not close. Richardson has no experience. No football smarts and he's inaccurate. His chances of becoming anything but a bust are slim to none.

 

[CactusJack]

Richardson. Higher ceiling.

It's easily Richardson.

 

[Yxes1122]

Richardson is a refined passer. Excellent pocket movement and awareness. He has an intuitive feel for the game and leverage. And almost all of his statistical woes, can be explained by drops, poor offense (WR running weird/wrong routes), or loose footwork. He’s a QB that can run, not a running QB.

I view him as a future top 2 QB so long as he lands in an area that understands that so much of his issues are just reps and crafting a competent offense. Florida was a mess last year. (Adding in vet WR that can help inform him on where the ball needs to be placed would be a plus. It’s why I’m bullish on his fit with Seattle)

My extremely bizarre comparison for AR is: What if Marshawn Lynch played QB?

I think he’s an extremely tough, extremely intuitive player that will never robotically play the position. He’s a relaxed, very real leader (there’s interviews where he’s talked about being distracted by NIL and then having to refocus on ball, candid interviews about not being on the same page as his WR, etc.) And for that reason, I really believe Pete would bring the absolute best out of him.

Levis (IMO) will be irrelevant in 3 years. He has no feel for pressure. He’s inaccurate over the middle. And he’s a slow processor of the game. He has all the worst qualities of Baker Mayfield and Daniel Jones with even worse pocket presence. This also is all reflected in his 2021 tape too, and you can see it by how many times his WR has to reach back for a crossing route over the middle. I find the Josh Allen comparisons to be ridiculous and with all the muscle selfies, I keep thinking this is Brady Quinn 2.0.

So it’s a no brainer to me—Richardson.

Pot sufficiently stirred?

 

[CactusJack]

Levis (IMO) will be irrelevant in 3 years. He has no feel for pressure. He’s inaccurate over the middle. And he’s a slow processor of the game. He has all the worst qualities of Baker Mayfield and Daniel Jones with even worse pocket presence. This also is all reflected in his 2021 tape too, and you can see it by how many times his WR has to reach back for a crossing route over the middle. I find the Josh Allen comparisons to be ridiculous and with all the muscle selfies, I keep thinking this is Brady Quinn 2.0.

So it’s a no brainer to me—Richardson.

Pot sufficiently stirred?

You're not alone, friend. Well said.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Levis and its not close. Richardson has no experience. No football smarts and he's inaccurate. His chances of becoming anything but a bust are slim to none.

Richardson actually showed multiple instances of improvement even during the course of individual games when it came to recognizing and attacking coverages that befuddled him prior.

Don't get me wrong, his profile is still terrifying and an outlier - but "no football smarts" is a bit of disservice to him. He clearly has some understanding and feel for the game.

Levis, on the other hand, regressed in that regard - which is worrisome.

 

[CactusJack]

Chris Simms typically has a good eye for scouting QB's. Here's his take on Levis.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Richardson actually showed multiple instances of improvement even during the course of individual games when it came to recognizing and attacking coverages that befuddled him prior.

Don't get me wrong, his profile is still terrifying and an outlier - but "no football smarts" is a bit of disservice to him. He clearly has some understanding and feel for the game.

Levis, on the other hand, regressed in that regard - which is worrisome.

the tape I saw of Levis this year I saw some of the worst college receivers I've ever seen. crap routes and NOBODY getting open.

 

[SonicHawk]

Richardson by a mile and I wouldn't touch him with a top ten pick.

 

[toffee]

Many moons ago, At Big Ben's combine, he was about the same size of Levi and Richardson, but with shorter arms, smaller hands and not as athletic.

	Big Ben	Richardson	Levi
Height	76.9"	76"	75.88"
Weight	241 lbs	244 lbs	229 lbs
Arms	31.5"	32.75"	32"
Hands	9.38"	10.5"	10.63"
40 yards	4.75 sec	4.43 sec
Vertical leap		40.5 "	34"

 

[CPHawk]

Maye

Chris Simms typically has a good eye for scouting QB's. Here's his take on Levis.

chris simms is an expert on overrated QBs.

 

[olyfan63]

<snip>
My extremely bizarre comparison for AR is: What if Marshawn Lynch played QB?
<snip>

Great question! Thankfully, we have a clear answer! Marshawn at QB would go a lot like this:

Coach: Marshawn, when they're in single high (safety), look off the safety to DK's side, pump fake, and then throw deep to Tyler on the double move, guaranteed he'll be WIDE OPEN.
Marshawn: Coach, I (will) just read it.
Coach: Yeah, look off the safety and pump fake.
Marshawn: Coach, I just read it.

 

[WarHawks]

Simms said "there's a natural feel for the game that [Levis] misses a little bit." Insightful comment. Given that there's much more tape on Levis, it's hard to disagree.

 

[AgentDib]

Like many here I'm lower on Levis than the other three, and I see it more like a big three followed by another three. However, I'm also higher on Levis straight up than most here because a rookie QB contract is the best kind of contract to have.

I don't buy that a rookie QB has to be a swing at the lottery or that it sets you back if you miss. You can win with cheap QB contracts like the two best teams in the NFC did last year. I don't expect Levis to ever be a top QB in this league, but could he be a decent QB if we get him back into a similar offensive scheme to his 2021 season, with a good OL, running game and receivers? That doesn't seem unreasonable. He can throw a nice deep ball to keep the safeties honest, and supplement the run game himself with similar running potential to Daniel Jones. In fact, if you look at the Giants giving Jones $40m/yr it seems vastly preferable to give Levis 1/10th of that instead and spend the rest on other positions.

Value is a concern of course, and I'd much rather take McKee at #123 over Levis at #5. If Levis does fall significantly, however, then I hope he's on our board and we can take the opportunity to draft a QB.

 

[TwilightError]

Richardson. There is no ceiling with that potential. His last five games were already much better than early season, which leads me to believe he is developing all the time and will keep doing so.

I would be fine with Levis too. As pointed out, four cheap years allow a lot for developing the team around him. He has the tools that can’t be teached and the rest is up to the coaches. As he does not need to start immediately at Seattle, that gives time for refining him. The arm and ability to run are powerful weapons.

Either one could bust out, and so could any other player with the fifth pick.

 

[CactusJack]

Like many here I'm lower on Levis than the other three, and I see it more like a big three followed by another three. However, I'm also higher on Levis straight up than most here because a rookie QB contract is the best kind of contract to have.

I don't buy that a rookie QB has to be a swing at the lottery or that it sets you back if you miss. You can win with cheap QB contracts like the two best teams in the NFC did last year. I don't expect Levis to ever be a top QB in this league, but could he be a decent QB if we get him back into a similar offensive scheme to his 2021 season, with a good OL, running game and receivers? That doesn't seem unreasonable. He can throw a nice deep ball to keep the safeties honest, and supplement the run game himself with similar running potential to Daniel Jones. In fact, if you look at the Giants giving Jones $40m/yr it seems vastly preferable to give Levis 1/10th of that instead and spend the rest on other positions.

Value is a concern of course, and I'd much rather take McKee at #123 over Levis at #5. If Levis does fall significantly, however, then I hope he's on our board and we can take the opportunity to draft a QB.

You might be fine with Levis in that scenario. But you also have to recognize that in time, you'll also have to pay him market value. Which just doesn't add up. Or, let him walk & repeat the process over.

 

[Yxes1122]

Like many here I'm lower on Levis than the other three, and I see it more like a big three followed by another three. However, I'm also higher on Levis straight up than most here because a rookie QB contract is the best kind of contract to have.

I don't buy that a rookie QB has to be a swing at the lottery or that it sets you back if you miss. You can win with cheap QB contracts like the two best teams in the NFC did last year. I don't expect Levis to ever be a top QB in this league, but could he be a decent QB if we get him back into a similar offensive scheme to his 2021 season, with a good OL, running game and receivers? That doesn't seem unreasonable. He can throw a nice deep ball to keep the safeties honest, and supplement the run game himself with similar running potential to Daniel Jones. In fact, if you look at the Giants giving Jones $40m/yr it seems vastly preferable to give Levis 1/10th of that instead and spend the rest on other positions.

Value is a concern of course, and I'd much rather take McKee at #123 over Levis at #5. If Levis does fall significantly, however, then I hope he's on our board and we can take the opportunity to draft a QB.

This is a good point.

That said, the more limited your QB, the more failure points you create on your roster.

Zach Wilson couldn’t win despite a Top 10 defense and a fairly talented receiving pool.

Baker couldn’t win in Cleveland despite having 2 good TEs, Odell and Jarvis Landry, Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt, etc.

Daniel Jones didn’t turn into a competent starter until Dabol and Kafka warped the entire offense around his deficiencies and they ran into a buzzsaw in the playoffs because Jones couldn’t elevate.

Alex Smith couldn’t elevate a Chiefs team that has been to 3 of the last 4 SBs and 5 straight AFC championships.

Even in the best case, ala Josh Allen, he didn’t become a top 15 starter until year 3. That’s 2 years wasted waiting for him to develop, and I think Allen was further along than Levis.

The rookie deal is important, but I think Levis is so weak in terms of processing speed and pocket presence, that you would need more talent than the 2013 LoB to win a SB on his rookie contract.

 

[RiverDog]

One thing that concerns me about Richardson is his accuracy. As Josh Allen has done, he might be able to compensate for it with his running ability, but at some point, he's going to have to develop traditional quarterbacking skills, and pinpoint accuracy is at the top of the list and is something that is difficult to coach up.