Punt/Kick Returns

[Sgt. Largent]

No one's mentioned the fact that with the new kickoff rule there have been ZERO KO returns for TD's this year.........and how many has Lockett run out? I can barely think of 1 or 2 he's run out.

Returns are way down, so anyone citing stats has to take that into account.

But again, a healthy Lockett and this isn't even a discussion.

 

[hawker84]

Too many times people only focus on yards or speed, but the position of returner is a unique position and even some of the more skilled players in the league have issues with cleanly catching the kicks and seeing the field. It's a completely different aspect to the game than playing either offense or defense.

this I completely agree with, it takes a special talent to catch punts in traffic, know when to fair catch, and know when to let go. A lot more goes into it than just yards and speed no doubt.

 

[Hawks46]

I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy, and I think it has nothing to do with injury. He does not have that vision and cutting ability you need to make people miss like Doug Baldwin or Golden Tate. Speed he has and if he get's a lane he's gone, but he'll never be as good as say Percy or Leon if he's got to create lanes or juke people.. Punt and kick returners are just a different breed, you either have it or you don't. JMO....

He's obviously hurt this year.

That said, look at what he did last year. Not only went to the Pro Bowl, but by the end of his rookie year, teams were kicking it away from him and punting out of bounds so he wouldn't kill them on the returns. Guys getting paid a ton of money to do this for a living are disagreeing with you about Lockett's return skills. I'll go with the professionals.

 

[SirTed]

I think the new rules are a major factor.

It's hard to tell, but teams are getting really good at a really lofty kick off that comes down inside the 5, and must be returned. I also think that the special teams, in this case the blockers for Lockett have under performed, which is definitely and underrated aspect of special teams. Also, Lockett definitely looks a step or two slow, when getting started, which is a sure sign of some lingering injury.

I think Lockett is excellent on returns. He's no Percy (whose ability to cut at top speed was inhuman) but he's a damn fine return man.

 

[kidhawk]

I think Lockett is excellent on returns. He's no Percy (whose ability to cut at top speed was inhuman) but he's a damn fine return man.

He's definitely no Percy, he's actually playing through an injury :lol:

 

[classicaaron]

i don't post often but this is too ridiculous not to post.

not sure how you can say Lockett isn't at least a good returner if not a great returner. I don't think I would want anyone else in the league right now back there. Like others said he was a pro bowler last year and had some huge catches for us. Even this year he was a shoe string away from winning that Rams game.

maybe its because your comparing him to the best return guys of all time mentioning Deion and Gale Sayers. Of course hes not that good, no body else in the history of the game is that good either.

and I loved Leon Washington as I also like Florida State and he was a former nole but hes no Lockett imo.

I think your putting him up to impossible standards. name another player currently playing you would want to exchange him with.

 

[hawker84]

i don't post often but this is too ridiculous not to post.

not sure how you can say Lockett isn't at least a good returner if not a great returner. I don't think I would want anyone else in the league right now back there. Like others said he was a pro bowler last year and had some huge catches for us. Even this year he was a shoe string away from winning that Rams game.

maybe its because your comparing him to the best return guys of all time mentioning Deion and Gale Sayers. Of course hes not that good, no body else in the history of the game is that good either.

and I loved Leon Washington as I also like Florida State and he was a former nole but hes no Lockett imo.

I think your putting him up to impossible standards. name another player currently playing you would want to exchange him with.

First off, I never said I want to replace him or trade him or anything remotely close to that. Where that's coming from I have no idea. But since you asked, if I had to choose right off the top of my head, I'd rather see Golden Tate return punts. Kickoffs, can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

So tell me, why is that impossible standards, he's either going to be a great returner or he's not? if he has the talent as many of you claim, then he'll make his mark on the game like many before him did. If he doesn't, he'll go down in NFL history as a good return guy, not great. Which is exactly what I said. I think he's good, probably the best returner on the team, but I don't see him ever being a great returner. that was all I was trying to say. so yes I was comparing him to the best of all time. I was also comparing him to Golden Tate, who is not among the best of all time, but in my opinion, a better return guy, especially punt returner.

But granted, Lockett's career is still very young, and he may indeed prove me wrong, I hope so, time will tell...

 

[tmobilchawker79]

:sarcasm_on: Time to bring back Brian Walters...

 

[Sgt. Largent]

First off, I never said I want to replace him or trade him or anything remotely close to that. Where that's coming from I have no idea. But since you asked, if I had to choose right off the top of my head, I'd rather see Golden Tate return punts. Kickoffs, can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

So tell me, why is that impossible standards, he's either going to be a great returner or he's not? if he has the talent as many of you claim, then he'll make his mark on the game like many before him did. If he doesn't, he'll go down in NFL history as a good return guy, not great. Which is exactly what I said. I think he's good enough, probably the best returner on the team, but I don't see him ever being a great returner. that was all I was trying to say. so yes I was comparing him to the best of all time. I was also comparing him to Golden Tate, who is not among the best of all time, but in my opinion, a better return guy, especially punt returner.

But granted, Lockett's career is still very young, and he may indeed prove me wrong, I hope so, time will tell...

But Lockett's Pro Bowl as a rookie already tells you you're wrong. He was one of, if not THE most dynamic returners in the league last year.

If not for his injury it'd be the same this year, no reason to think otherwise. If you can't see that Lockett's injury is affecting both his routes and returns, then I don't know what to say.

 

[kidhawk]

he'll go down in NFL history as a good return guy, not great. Which is exactly what I said.

Actually this......

I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy

Is EXACTLY what you said. You have walked that statement back some since the first post, but it is what you said, so you shouldn't be surprised at people's reactions to that particular statement. It's the one that's going to stand out when people read it.

 

[hawker84]

he'll go down in NFL history as a good return guy, not great. Which is exactly what I said.

Actually this......

I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy

Is EXACTLY what you said. You have walked that statement back some since the first post, but it is what you said, so you shouldn't be surprised at people's reactions to that particular statement. It's the one that's going to stand out when people read it.

Copy that. I expected some heat with my original post, so I'm cool with it. like I said , just my opinion, still love the Kid, and love my Hawks.

 

[hawker84]

First off, I never said I want to replace him or trade him or anything remotely close to that. Where that's coming from I have no idea. But since you asked, if I had to choose right off the top of my head, I'd rather see Golden Tate return punts. Kickoffs, can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

So tell me, why is that impossible standards, he's either going to be a great returner or he's not? if he has the talent as many of you claim, then he'll make his mark on the game like many before him did. If he doesn't, he'll go down in NFL history as a good return guy, not great. Which is exactly what I said. I think he's good enough, probably the best returner on the team, but I don't see him ever being a great returner. that was all I was trying to say. so yes I was comparing him to the best of all time. I was also comparing him to Golden Tate, who is not among the best of all time, but in my opinion, a better return guy, especially punt returner.

But granted, Lockett's career is still very young, and he may indeed prove me wrong, I hope so, time will tell...

But Lockett's Pro Bowl as a rookie already tells you you're wrong. He was one of, if not THE most dynamic returners in the league last year.

If not for his injury it'd be the same this year, no reason to think otherwise. If you can't see that Lockett's injury is affecting both his routes and returns, then I don't know what to say.

I hope your right, believe me. I'd love to see him start ripping off some big ones and taking it to the house again.

 

[fenderbender123]

I sort of agree with Hawker84. I feel like the blocking needs to be there for Lockett to make things happen, and I feel like the blocking has slowly worsened since the start of last season. But, that's based purely on my recollection. I don't watch film or anything like that.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

He was first team all pro not just a pro bowler. That literally means they didnt think anyone was better than no e.

 

[classicaaron]

i don't post often but this is too ridiculous not to post.

not sure how you can say Lockett isn't at least a good returner if not a great returner. I don't think I would want anyone else in the league right now back there. Like others said he was a pro bowler last year and had some huge catches for us. Even this year he was a shoe string away from winning that Rams game.

maybe its because your comparing him to the best return guys of all time mentioning Deion and Gale Sayers. Of course hes not that good, no body else in the history of the game is that good either.

and I loved Leon Washington as I also like Florida State and he was a former nole but hes no Lockett imo.

I think your putting him up to impossible standards. name another player currently playing you would want to exchange him with.

First off, I never said I want to replace him or trade him or anything remotely close to that. Where that's coming from I have no idea. But since you asked, if I had to choose right off the top of my head, I'd rather see Golden Tate return punts. Kickoffs, can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

So tell me, why is that impossible standards, he's either going to be a great returner or he's not? if he has the talent as many of you claim, then he'll make his mark on the game like many before him did. If he doesn't, he'll go down in NFL history as a good return guy, not great. Which is exactly what I said. I think he's good, probably the best returner on the team, but I don't see him ever being a great returner. that was all I was trying to say. so yes I was comparing him to the best of all time. I was also comparing him to Golden Tate, who is not among the best of all time, but in my opinion, a better return guy, especially punt returner.

But granted, Lockett's career is still very young, and he may indeed prove me wrong, I hope so, time will tell...

I know you didn't specifically say trade him but im just asking if you say hes not that good who would you rather replace him with? and you can only come up with one guy which imo isn't as good but that's up for debate. still you name only one guy so hes second best in the league then? if so second best still isn't good enough for you?

and by your standards I guess Eric Metcalf was a crappy returner too since he wasn't as good as Deion or Gale Sayers. I just don't understand your reasoning. It like saying Russ isn't good because hes not Joe Montana.

 

[hawker84]

I know you didn't specifically say trade him but im just asking if you say hes not that good who would you rather replace him with? and you can only come up with one guy which imo isn't as good but that's up for debate. still you name only one guy so hes second best in the league then? if so second best still isn't good enough for you?

and by your standards I guess Eric Metcalf was a crappy returner too since he wasn't as good as Deion or Gale Sayers. I just don't understand your reasoning. It like saying Russ isn't good because hes not Joe Montana.

First off show me where I said he was crappy, please stop putting words in my mouth, I recanted my statement (from not very good to good) and then went on to say I think he's good, just not great.. to your other points, I mean I suppose I could do some research and come up with a bunch of guys who has better numbers than him and say I'd rather have them back there. But that's not the case or the point I was trying to make.

I simply was stating, me personally, my opinion, I do not see him becoming a great returner like the players I mentioned. Many of you claim he does have the talent to be great, I personally don't think his return style is conducive to getting him to that level. Great returners have great vision of the entire field, great cutting/juking ability, can change direction without losing speed, and of course lights out speed. They can create when there's nothing there.

I have not seen Lockett display these skills YET. Not saying he doesn't have them. I've seen him take two to the house when he had great blocking and huge lanes, I've seem him have good returns when he had great lanes. I don't recall seeing him create open space by juking or making people miss. Not saying he hasn't, just saying I don't recall him doing it.

I think he's a great athlete, I love him as our #2 and of course he's blazing fast, so he's going to make plays returning the ball now and then. So to clarify, I think he's a good returner, especially when the blocking is good and he has lanes. I personally would rather have a returner who can create in open space and make people miss like a Golden Tate or any of the other great returners I've named.

Again, I could be completely off base, and I hope he proves me wrong, he's a good kid and i'll always root for him.

 

[Smellyman]

Lockett is a much better punt returner than Golden Tate

 

[hawker84]

Lockett is a much better punt returner than Golden Tate

I think that's worth debate.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I get it he was a pro bowler last year, he had a decent season.. what has he done this year?

Are you reading more than one sentence into the responses to your posts? He's injured. That's a perfectly valid explanation, at this point, to his lack of burst.

Now, maybe his injury turns out to be chronic and permanently removes his talent at receiving, or something, but it's waaaaayyyyy too early to be making that assumption.

As far as "getting lanes", have you noticed that bad returners never get lanes? The speed of the returner is a huge part in how well those lanes work, just as the RB's speed to the line is a big part of making HIS lanes work, and a QB's timing is a big part of making his protection work. Things work both ways. In the sense of a KR/PR, a returner needs to have burst in order for his blocks to be effective. No blocker is going to freeze a ST for five seconds. That's not how it works. A blocker needs to put his hat on a guy for a second or two and then BOOM, have the returner guy going through it. The returner's talent is crucial to making his blocking work.

 

[Smellyman]

and even hurt, still is 6th in punt returns with a long of 62