Pressure is on Russell Wilson

[Anthony!]

Wilson's NFC champion QBR 13.6
Wilson's superbowl QBR 90.8 which was greatly aided by the unleashing of Chris Mathews.
I am not going to include the Denver game because he threw 1 pass.
Kansas City 73.8
San Diego 56.5

For a whopping average of 58.675

His career QBR is 98.6.

Anything else you would like?

The irony of you describing others' responses as petulant is pretty telling. Not sure if you've gone back and read your own posts but it might be enlightening in some regard.

There was a BR article this summer that did a much better job of critiquing his pocket passing than you have but I didn't link it as I'd get the usual "oh it's bleacher report, pfft" responses.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521 ... ket-passer

The author basically comes to the conclusion that he hasn't proven that he can, which many (particularly outside of SEA) can and will agree with.

Way to use QBR as your evidence btw. Wow.

I read that article and there is much that says he can, add to that the stats that shows he can and there you go. As with most young QBs there are things he can do better, Guess what the same goes for Luck, and all young QBs, Heck even the old ones, can improve. The question is are you like some who feel if he has to improve at all he sucks, or are you like any real person and realize you can always improve and he is really good now and will get better. The reality is he has shown he can carve a team from within the pocket so that is that.
in fact from that article and author comes this quote "Those issues are primarily consistency-based, though. He has done as much as anyone during the early stages of his career to suggest he will be an accomplished pocket passer moving forward." note accomplished pocket passer enough said.

 

[Laloosh]

Russell Wilson sucks....at basketball. :mrgreen:

[youtube]ZmAEde8nuUQ[/youtube]

Way to take that charge, Russ.

 

[Laloosh]

I read that article and there is much that says he can, add to that the stats that shows he can and there you go. As with most young QBs there are things he can do better, Guess what the same goes for Luck, and all young QBs, Heck even the old ones, can improve. The question is are you like some who feel if he has to improve at all he sucks, or are you like any real person and realize you can always improve and he is really good now and will get better. The reality is he has shown he can carve a team from within the pocket so that is that.
in fact from that article and author comes this quote "Those issues are primarily consistency-based, though. He has done as much as anyone during the early stages of his career to suggest he will be an accomplished pocket passer moving forward." note accomplished pocket passer enough said.

There's plenty of good stuff there but when it gets right down to it, the author seems to fall on the "too inconsistent and limited by height" side of the fence.

He could be right in the end. I don't think that'll be the case but he did a good job (imo) of laying out his reasons for his thinking and it's not based on hypothetical situations.

2014 wasn't Russ's best year passing but as will be the case every year, supporting cast and offensive line play a role.

 

[Scottemojo]

Complaining that Wilson is subpar in the pocket is like complaining that Dan Marino was a shitty scrambler.

 

[Anthony!]

I read that article and there is much that says he can, add to that the stats that shows he can and there you go. As with most young QBs there are things he can do better, Guess what the same goes for Luck, and all young QBs, Heck even the old ones, can improve. The question is are you like some who feel if he has to improve at all he sucks, or are you like any real person and realize you can always improve and he is really good now and will get better. The reality is he has shown he can carve a team from within the pocket so that is that.
in fact from that article and author comes this quote "Those issues are primarily consistency-based, though. He has done as much as anyone during the early stages of his career to suggest he will be an accomplished pocket passer moving forward." note accomplished pocket passer enough said.

There's plenty of good stuff there but when it gets right down to it, the author seems to fall on the "too inconsistent and limited by height" side of the fence.

He could be right in the end. I don't think that'll be the case but he did a good job (imo) of laying out his reasons for his thinking and it's not based on hypothetical situations.

2014 wasn't Russ's best year passing but as will be the case every year, supporting cast and offensive line play a role.

and yet he says "He has done as much as anyone during the early stages of his career to suggest he will be an accomplished pocket passer moving forward." hMM

 

[Laloosh]

and yet he says "He has done as much as anyone during the early stages of his career to suggest he will be an accomplished pocket passer moving forward." hMM

Yep, edited my post to include this. At the same time, that last line...

However, the consistency with which the label is used is important.

... I think this is sort of the fulcrum on which a lot of the back and forth pivots.

 

[brimsalabim]

Um can you post the all 22 of that film? Cause I can't see the receivers. It's difficult to judge when we don't know what Russell was looking at. All I see here is Wilson being quickly flushed from the pocket, buying some time while looking down field, but eventually taking the sack.

 

[Laloosh]

Um can you post the all 22 of that film? Cause I can't see the receivers. It's difficult to judge when we don't know what Russell was looking at. All I see here is Wilson being quickly flushed from the pocket, buying some time while looking down field, but eventually taking the sack.

Yeah, let me jump right on that. Of course not.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Not only is Wilson graded 9th in the pocket at +12.2, but he's graded better in the pocket than scrambling. He's 1st in the NFL at scrambling at +9.9.

So if he can get more protection in the pocket, he'll improve. If he has to scramble, he's not bad at all.

In fact, these are QB's worse in the pocket than RW is while scrambling:

Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Colin Krapperdink, Ben Rapistburger, Cam Newton and Carson Palmer.

So RW is truly a unique QB. The second best scrambler was rated +3.5. No one is even close. But that doesn't mean Russ isn't even better when he stays in the pocket.

 

[hawknation2015]

Um can you post the all 22 of that film? Cause I can't see the receivers. It's difficult to judge when we don't know what Russell was looking at. All I see here is Wilson being quickly flushed from the pocket, buying some time while looking down field, but eventually taking the sack.

JMO, I think Russell could have shown a little more patience and awareness on this play. He had a clean pocket, and Miller and Tate were each on the verge of getting open.

 

[Anthony!]

and yet he says "He has done as much as anyone during the early stages of his career to suggest he will be an accomplished pocket passer moving forward." hMM

Yep, edited my post to include this. At the same time, that last line...

However, the consistency with which the label is used is important.

... I think this is sort of the fulcrum on which a lot of the back and forth pivots.

yeah but with us their are to many variable to know. I mean with our oline and WRs (up to now0 it is not like he has had the best support to throw form the pocket. And while the write showed some times were he missed some open people he also notes all QBs do, and then of course he does not go into detail of down and distance or progression very well, so we really do not know if people are open or not. and If open how open, PC open and other HC open are not the same thing. A lot of variables but what we do know is when given the time, more often than not he does very well in the pocket.

 

[Anthony!]

Not only is Wilson graded 9th in the pocket at +12.2, but he's graded better in the pocket than scrambling. He's 1st in the NFL at scrambling at +9.9.

So if he can get more protection in the pocket, he'll improve. If he has to scramble, he's not bad at all.

In fact, these are QB's worse in the pocket than RW is while scrambling:

Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Colin Krapperdink, Ben Rapistburger, Cam Newton and Carson Palmer.

So RW is truly a unique QB. The second best scrambler was rated +3.5. No one is even close. But that doesn't mean Russ isn't even better when he stays in the pocket.

Agreed, but not fair using facts to support your stance :sarcasm_off:

 

[Anthony!]

Um can you post the all 22 of that film? Cause I can't see the receivers. It's difficult to judge when we don't know what Russell was looking at. All I see here is Wilson being quickly flushed from the pocket, buying some time while looking down field, but eventually taking the sack.

JMO, I think Russell could have shown a little more patience and awareness on this play. He had a clean pocket, and Miller and Tate were each on the verge of getting open.

perhaps but it is debatable at best.

 

[erik2690]

Wilson's NFC champion QBR 13.6
Wilson's superbowl QBR 90.8 which was greatly aided by the unleashing of Chris Mathews.
I am not going to include the Denver game because he threw 1 pass.
Kansas City 73.8
San Diego 56.5

For a whopping average of 58.675

His career QBR is 98.6.

Anything else you would like?

You just mixed up 2 different stats. QBR and "QB rating" are separate stats you just mixed and matched them. You cited a bunch of QBR stats and then quoted his career "QB rating". His career QBR is in the 60's. You outed yourself a bit here as either not knowing the stats or trying way too hard to paint a certain picture. The 2 playoff games you cited are QBR, then the preseason games are "rating" then you cite his career "rating". Who is arguing that his preseason games have been spectacular? Your stats here are a bit of a mess though.

 

[hawknation2015]

Um can you post the all 22 of that film? Cause I can't see the receivers. It's difficult to judge when we don't know what Russell was looking at. All I see here is Wilson being quickly flushed from the pocket, buying some time while looking down field, but eventually taking the sack.

JMO, I think Russell could have shown a little more patience and awareness on this play. He had a clean pocket, and Miller and Tate were each on the verge of getting open.

perhaps but it is debatable at best.

I don't know how debatable it is . . . there was no cause to break the pocket on this particular play. Breaking the pocket can stress defenses -- when there is cause to do so -- but ultimately fails not only the play design but also the open receivers, i.e. Miller and Tate. In other words, breaking the pocket when it is unnecessary to do so leads to randomness rather than reliable, consistent success. This is definitely something Russell continues to improve on. He is not yet a finished product. By the end of this season, he will have developed into a much better QB than he was two seasons ago.

 

[Laloosh]

I don't know how debatable it is . . . there was no cause to break the pocket on this particular play. Breaking the pocket can stress defenses -- when there is cause to do so -- but ultimately fails not only the play design but also the open receivers, i.e. Miller and Tate. In other words, breaking the pocket when it is unnecessary to do so leads to randomness rather than reliable, consistent success. This is definitely something Russell continues to improve on. He is not yet a finished product. By the end of this season, he will have developed into a much better QB than he was two seasons ago.

It was so unnecessary there that it almost looks like he's trying to get that randomness.

 

[Anthony!]

Um can you post the all 22 of that film? Cause I can't see the receivers. It's difficult to judge when we don't know what Russell was looking at. All I see here is Wilson being quickly flushed from the pocket, buying some time while looking down field, but eventually taking the sack.

JMO, I think Russell could have shown a little more patience and awareness on this play. He had a clean pocket, and Miller and Tate were each on the verge of getting open.

perhaps but it is debatable at best.

I don't know how debatable it is . . . there was no cause to break the pocket on this particular play. Breaking the pocket can stress defenses -- when there is cause to do so -- but ultimately fails not only the play design but also the open receivers, i.e. Miller and Tate. In other words, breaking the pocket when it is unnecessary to do so leads to randomness rather than reliable, consistent success. This is definitely something Russell continues to improve on. He is not yet a finished product. By the end of this season, he will have developed into a much better QB than he was two seasons ago.

problem is when he breaks no one is open. and given how spread out the oline man is there is not much of a pocket. Did it occur to you he broke the pocket because no one is open and he was thinking him breaking might help? I mean I agree there has been times he left the pocket what appeared to be early, however I do not believe this is a good example. Of course when you are the most hit, hurried and sacked QB in the league 3 straight years, while at the same time having the most wins, and one of the highest QB ratings every in your first 3 years you should get some room. Well at least anyone with any common sense would.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

JMO, I think Russell could have shown a little more patience and awareness on this play. He had a clean pocket, and Miller and Tate were each on the verge of getting open.

perhaps but it is debatable at best.

I don't know how debatable it is . . . there was no cause to break the pocket on this particular play. Breaking the pocket can stress defenses -- when there is cause to do so -- but ultimately fails not only the play design but also the open receivers, i.e. Miller and Tate. In other words, breaking the pocket when it is unnecessary to do so leads to randomness rather than reliable, consistent success. This is definitely something Russell continues to improve on. He is not yet a finished product. By the end of this season, he will have developed into a much better QB than he was two seasons ago.

problem is when he breaks no one is open. and given how spread out the oline man is there is not much of a pocket. Did it occur to you he broke the pocket because no one is open and he was thinking him breaking might help? I mean I agree there has been times he left the pocket what appeared to be early, however I do not believe this is a good example. Of course when you are the most hit, hurried and sacked QB in the league 3 straight years, while at the same time having the most wins, and one of the highest QB ratings every in your first 3 years you should get some room. Well at least anyone with any common sense would.

Miller couldn't be more open. What are you looking at? The pocket is huge, and if he steps up into it instead of backtracking back and left he can hit Miller for +25 instead of taking a -5.

 

[Hawks46]

perhaps but it is debatable at best.[/quote]

I don't know how debatable it is . . . there was no cause to break the pocket on this particular play. Breaking the pocket can stress defenses -- when there is cause to do so -- but ultimately fails not only the play design but also the open receivers, i.e. Miller and Tate. In other words, breaking the pocket when it is unnecessary to do so leads to randomness rather than reliable, consistent success. This is definitely something Russell continues to improve on. He is not yet a finished product. By the end of this season, he will have developed into a much better QB than he was two seasons ago.[/quote]


problem is when he breaks no one is open. and given how spread out the oline man is there is not much of a pocket. Did it occur to you he broke the pocket because no one is open and he was thinking him breaking might help? I mean I agree there has been times he left the pocket what appeared to be early, however I do not believe this is a good example. Of course when you are the most hit, hurried and sacked QB in the league 3 straight years, while at the same time having the most wins, and one of the highest QB ratings every in your first 3 years you should get some room. Well at least anyone with any common sense would.[/quote]

Miller couldn't be more open. What are you looking at? The pocket is huge, and if he steps up into it instead of backtracking back and left he can hit Miller for +25 instead of taking a -5.[/quote]

Obviously he was gazing with adoration at Wilson and not watching the receivers.

Without being a smartass, you are totally right...Miller is open and continues to be open as he breaks towards the sidelines. Wilson could've taken 2 steps up into the pocket, and LED the receiver (I know, shocker) and thrown the ball towards the sidelines where only Miller could've gotten to it. It's a very safe pass, and it shows some of Wilson's hesitation that is inexplicable at times. There was room to throw, no real pressure, and the play is breaking towards the side he was fading to. He could've thrown this ball from several different places and still completed the pass.

Not ripping on Wilson, but it's a good example of what he needs to work on. The good thing is that Wilson has probably seen this and is currently working on it. I theorize that he looked bad in the preseason because he's concentrating on staying in the pocket and hitting intermediate throws in the middle that he's been historically uncomfortable or hesitant to make.

 

[mrt144]

Um can you post the all 22 of that film? Cause I can't see the receivers. It's difficult to judge when we don't know what Russell was looking at. All I see here is Wilson being quickly flushed from the pocket, buying some time while looking down field, but eventually taking the sack.

JMO, I think Russell could have shown a little more patience and awareness on this play. He had a clean pocket, and Miller and Tate were each on the verge of getting open.

perhaps but it is debatable at best.

To wit, OMG THIS PLAY WAS 2 YEARS AGO, WHOOOOOOOOOO CARES. This is borderline cherry picking. Should we go play by play and pick apart each one to find where improvements could be made?