Our stars need to step up.

[toffee]

Our stars, and high picks need to step up for this champion season.

• Geno - our probowler of '22
  @Fade is right, Geno is playing at a level that could pull us back. If the first half of '22 was his ceiling, he is playing a few bars below that for almost a full season now, second half of '22 and '23. I think the opposed DC got enough films on him to explore those holes in his games. Can Geno find that extra gear? What do you think?
  
• Woolen - our probowler of '22
  Injury during off season, and he is working himself back. We need Riq to step up and be his '22 self soon, and I think he is getting better and his confidence is improving. Couldn't wait to see a 100% Riq with Witherspoon and Tre Brown.
  
  
• Jamal - our all pro
  After years of injury, is Jamal still the Jamal of old? or just an above average SS? So far, he is above average but not playing at probowl or all pro level. Will he be all the way back?
  
  
• Cross - our #9 pick
  So far Cross is OK, league average and serviceable, not good, and far from great. Will this be his breakout year? He sure handled what Brows' DL threw at him, or that breakout will come in '24 as he mature and pack on another 10-15 lbs of muscle?
  
  
• Jones - our hgh price acquisition
  He is improving but still not the difference maker? Will his path to be a difference maker be gotten easier now that we have signed Williams?
  
  
• JSN - our #20 pick
  For many reasons, he is not playing like a #20 and first WR to be picked, should we assign more opportunities to help JSN? or we rather allocate those opportunities to our TEs?
  
  
• Hall - our 2nd round pic
  With Nwosu out, Hall has a big shoe to fill, somehow he hasn't flashed enough to inspire confidence?

In short, our allpro and probowlers haven't played to their potential or expectations, and we need our high draft picks to mature quickly.

On the other hand, Witherspoon is all that and more, so happy with his performance, Reed is way beyond expectation, #2 NT in the league!!! Brooks is quietly having a career year, even find a new way to contribute with pass rushes. AND there's Bobo

Anyways, enough ranting, old fart with too time on his hands.

 

[CallMeADawg]

We're all entitled to our own opinion but I'll have to say that I personally don't agree with any of those statements.

 

[Optimus25]

-I think one thing that needs to be said is that as soon as Riq established himself as 'that guy' last year, the opposing offenses started focusing on the other side of the field. Then when Witherspoon comes to town, it's the opposite effect. So really Riq never had the chance to ease back in and it's been full blown attack mode to his side every game. So here's a rookie (last year) who played lights out and then got tested much less, and sophomore season the offenses are doing what they can to steer clear of Spoony all of a sudden. So i think there is a nature regression with that confluence of events and that we see him starting to revert (positively) back to the mean as he starts to understand how to defend high volume at a high level.

-I'm so far rather impressed with Jamal's return. He is definitely bringing the fire to the game and that is worth a ton. If you want to harp on anyone, i'd pick on Diggs before Adams right about now.

-JSN is coming right on schedule. He's playing behind one of the best tandems in the league, everyone understood there was going to be little impact early and we were going to have to find ways to build him into the gameplan. Did you think he was going to be a top 50 receiver by this point? If so, you were possibly the only one. Plus, he's a massive insurance policy if DK or Tyler get injured (remember the game DK sat and JSN was our leading receiver?) Only a receiver of his talent could have taken that screen to the house last week. He's so effortlessly shifty.

-I'm not sold on Geno. Anyone deep in this site knows that about me. But i do think he's the starter. i just think there has to be times Drew comes in to make sure Geno doesn't screw everything up.

-if i recall correctly Hall made a pretty great play last week. (by the way, did you know he was dead as a premature baby and had to be resuscitated? pretty cool story)
I'd temper any expectations on him as he's mostly a rotational/depth piece we took a flyer on- could turn into a star, but either way we know his floor at least.

 

[toffee]

-I think one thing that needs to be said is that as soon as Riq established himself as 'that guy' last year, the opposing offenses started focusing on the other side of the field. Then when Witherspoon comes to town, it's the opposite effect. So really Riq never had the chance to ease back in and it's been full blown attack mode to his side every game. So here's a rookie (last year) who played lights out and then got tested much less, and sophomore season the offenses are doing what they can to steer clear of Spoony all of a sudden. So i think there is a nature regression with that confluence of events and that we see him starting to revert (positively) back to the mean as he starts to understand how to defend high volume at a high level.

100%, as a Woolen fanboy, I couldn't wait to see playing to his full potential!

-I'm so far rather impressed with Jamal's return. He is definitely bringing the fire to the game and that is worth a ton. If you want to harp on anyone, i'd pick on Diggs before Adams right about now.

Jamal is not bad, just not super star or his former self. Hopeful he will regain most of formal self in coming weeks. You are right about Diggs!

-JSN is coming right on schedule. He's playing behind one of the best tandems in the league, everyone understood there was going to be little impact early and we were going to have to find ways to build him into the gameplan. Did you think he was going to be a top 50 receiver by this point? If so, you were possibly the only one. Plus, he's a massive insurance policy if DK or Tyler get injured (remember the game DK sat and JSN was our leading receiver?) Only a receiver of his talent could have taken that screen to the house last week. He's so effortlessly shifty.

There are a few rookie WRs playing at top WR level, couldn't wait for JSN to have a breakout game.

-I'm not sold on Geno. Anyone deep in this site knows that about me. But i do think he's the starter. i just think there has to be times Drew comes in to make sure Geno doesn't screw everything up.

I am a Geno fanboy, and I am hoping to see him play at the first half '22 level soon.

-if i recall correctly Hall made a pretty great play last week. (by the way, did you know he was dead as a premature baby and had to be resuscitated? pretty cool story)
I'd temper any expectations on him as he's mostly a rotational/depth piece we took a flyer on- could turn into a star, but either way we know his floor at least.

I would like to think we didn't invest an early 2nd rounder on a "rotational/depth" piece.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

While I agree some key players like Geno need to play better, it's weird that you listed mostly defensive players considering the Hawks are now giving up less than 20 pts per game as a defensive unit.

Still giving up too many yards per game for sure, but scoring is top 10? 11?

The next month is going to dictate whether the Hawks are contenders or pretenders. So we shall have all our questions about this team answered by this time in December. Are they too inconsistent on offense and wear down on defense because they can't get off the field enough, and end up with another fringe WC berth?

Or is this roster getting better as the season goes along and they're finally ready to take back the division.

 

[Fade]

[*]Geno - our probowler of '22
@Fade is right, Geno is playing at a level that could pull us back. If the first half of '22 was his ceiling, he is playing a few bars below that for almost a full season now, second half of '22 and '23. I think the opposed DC got enough films on him to explore those holes in his games. Can Geno find that extra gear? What do you think?

Geno is what he is. Only he and Jameis Winston have a big time throw % AND TWP% over 4% in the modern era of football.

On film what concerns me, is he turns into a pumpkin once the field constricts in the red zone and the gimme dumpoffs are taken away. This has been problem for him even when things were going well for him at the start of last season.

[*]Woolen - our probowler of '22
Injury during off season, and he is working himself back. We need Riq to step up and be his '22 self soon, and I think he is getting better and his confidence is improving. Couldn't wait to see a 100% Riq with Witherspoon and Tre Brown.

Riq is fine. He's missing some splash highlight plays, but most of his completions surrendered are caused by the scheme and what they are asking him to do.

Physically, he's not--and never will be a great tackler. He avoids contact whenever he can.

[*]Jamal - our all pro
After years of injury, is Jamal still the Jamal of old? or just an above average SS? So far, he is above average but not playing at probowl or all pro level. Will he be all the way back?

The Old Jamal isn't coming back, but from what I've seen, he's 90% the same guy that impacts the game in the same way.

[*]Cross - our #9 pick
So far Cross is OK, league average and serviceable, not good, and far from great. Will this be his breakout year? He sure handled what Brows' DL threw at him, or that breakout will come in '24 as he mature and pack on another 10-15 lbs of muscle?

I said it when he was drafted, he could be an All-Pro LG, but just an average to above avg. LT. The reason for this is there is a speed to power conversion that takes place when out on an island that LT's play on, that gives him the most fits. Playing inside at LG he doesn't have to worry about this, and would dominate.

His agent, and himself would probably never accept a position switch. That sweet, sweet, LT money is just too damn good to ever give up. Fringe top 10 is his ceiling, but you will have to pay him top 5 LT money when he is up for a new contract. Which by then will be $30M a year.

[*]Jones - our hgh price acquisition
He is improving but still not the difference maker? Will his path to be a difference maker be gotten easier now that we have signed Williams?

Maybe. On the inside Jones was the #1 focus, if Williams can have the impact we hope, this could free up Jones to get in the backfield more often as teams focus more on Williams.

[*]JSN - our #20 pick
For many reasons, he is not playing like a #20 and first WR to be picked, should we assign more opportunities to help JSN? or we rather allocate those opportunities to our TEs?

Tight Ends. The Seahawks are one of the most efficient offenses in the league from 12 personnel. JSN will just have to wait for his time to shine and accept being used sparingly for the time being.

I Think Bobo should be getting more snaps over JSN at this juncture.

[*]Hall - our 2nd round pic
With Nwosu out, Hall has a big shoe to fill, somehow he hasn't flashed enough to inspire confidence?

Edge is the least of my worries right now on defense outside of CB. Mafe, Hall, Taylor, and Clark. They have an embarrassment of riches at the position. Even if Hall isn't ready for it. They could easily platoon Taylor and Clark to get what they need out of that group with Mafe's emergence.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

The next month is going to dictate whether the Hawks are contenders or pretenders. So we shall have all our questions about this team answered by this time in December. Are they too inconsistent on offense and wear down on defense because they can't get off the field enough, and end up with another fringe WC berth?

Or is this roster getting better as the season goes along and they're finally ready to take back the division.

I was gonna use the term Paper Tigers - but contenders or pretenders works nicely. (not that I think that's what we are).

This is where we gel and start dominating - or.... don't.

I think (mentioned in another thread) that the Ravens is the most important game of the season (so far - obviously conditions change). Beat these lugs 20-7 or in a convincing manner - and we're set and swaggerin. THIS will set the tone for the stretch. THIS will follow us into the Cowboys and eventually Eagles. Smash the Ravens in the mouth - and we've got street cred.

Ravens, 9ers and Cowboys coming up? Not to pointlessly one up you - but we're gonna know Sunday big answers, and we'll have all we need to know by the end of November here - and I'm hoping that they are good answers. My god. With the pieces we have. It better not be 'pretender'. Other than people's Geno Jitters - I can't remember WHEN we've been more loaded!

I've got no problem with people taking a bit to come along. Draft picks. Acquisitions. JSN and Bobo and such are coming along. But NOW is the time for it to stick.

 

[toffee]

Geno is what he is. Only he and Jameis Winston have a big time throw % AND TWP% over 4% in the modern era of football.

On film what concerns me, is he turns into a pumpkin once the field constricts in the red zone and the gimme dumpoffs are taken away. This has been problem for him even when things were going well for him at the start of last season.

I am a Geno fanboy, his problems or holes in his game has been exposed, I am hoping he can step up and minimize those problem areas.

Riq is fine. He's missing some splash highlight plays, but most of his completions surrendered are caused by the scheme and what they are asking him to do.

Physically, he's not--and never will be a great tackler. He avoids contact whenever he can.

I felt like he can and will get back last year's level, just a matter of time, and his confidence. CB are often on an island, it's often the confidence or nano seconds of hesitation that makes all the difference.

The Old Jamal isn't coming back, but from what I've seen, he's 90% the same guy that impacts the game in the same way.

You think? A 90% Jamal will be good enough?

I said it when he was drafted, he could be an All-Pro LG, but just an average to above avg. LT. The reason for this is there is a speed to power conversion that takes place when out on an island that LT's play on, that gives him the most fits. Playing inside at LG he doesn't have to worry about this, and would dominate.

His agent, and himself would probably never accept a position switch. That sweet, sweet, LT money is just too damn good to ever give up. Fringe top 10 is his ceiling, but you will have to pay him top 5 LT money when he is up for a new contract. Which by then will be $30M a year.

Cross, in my opinion, is somewhat undersized just like Duane Brown. I just felt like he got pushed back a step or so more than Lucas on the right side. So far he is an average LT, I am hoping to see more improvements, but kinda afraid that those improvements may come on his contract year.

Maybe. On the inside Jones was the #1 focus, if Williams can have the impact we hope, this could free up Jones to get in the backfield more often as teams focus more on Williams.

I think Williams will take snaps from Mario, with Reed playing really good, I think you are right that Jones may see more opportunities as OL has to double Reed and Williams.

Tight Ends. The Seahawks are one of the most efficient offenses in the league from 12 personnel. JSN will just have to wait for his time to shine and accept being used sparingly for the time being.

I Think Bobo should be getting more snaps over JSN at this juncture.

or JSN has to leverage whatever opportunities that come his way. Some WR just takes more time to develop, could our JSN be one of those?

Edge is the least of my worries right now on defense outside of CB. Mafe, Hall, Taylor, and Clark. They have an embarrassment of riches at the position. Even if Hall isn't ready for it. They could easily platoon Taylor and Clark to get what they need out of that group with Mafe's emergence.

Music to my ears fade!

 

[Mad Dog]

Cross was a rookie last year and has been working back from injury this year. It’s hard to say where he stands right now. But he’s got elite footwork. Still needs some strength. But I think he’ll be a top 10 LT by the end of his contract.

 

[bileever]

The good news is that not a lot of players are playing up to expectations, and yet we are 5-2. If the O-line can get healthy and gel, and some of the younger players can improve, I can see us becoming a better team in the second half.

 

[sutz]

Your best players need to step up in the big games. I know we're not supposed to look at it like that for a mid-season game against a non-conference foe, but if the Seahawks truly live by the "every week is Championship week" mantra they need to come out playing like this game is for the whole enchilada.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Our stars, and high picks need to step up for this champion season.

• Geno - our probowler of '22
  @Fade is right, Geno is playing at a level that could pull us back. If the first half of '22 was his ceiling, he is playing a few bars below that for almost a full season now, second half of '22 and '23. I think the opposed DC got enough films on him to explore those holes in his games. Can Geno find that extra gear? What do you think?

Fair.

• Woolen - our probowler of '22
  Injury during off season, and he is working himself back. We need Riq to step up and be his '22 self soon, and I think he is getting better and his confidence is improving. Couldn't wait to see a 100% Riq with Witherspoon and Tre Brown.

Not fair to say "step up" over injury IMO.

• Jamal - our all pro
  After years of injury, is Jamal still the Jamal of old? or just an above average SS? So far, he is above average but not playing at probowl or all pro level. Will he be all the way back?

See above.

• Cross - our #9 pick
  So far Cross is OK, league average and serviceable, not good, and far from great. Will this be his breakout year? He sure handled what Brows' DL threw at him, or that breakout will come in '24 as he mature and pack on another 10-15 lbs of muscle?

See above.

• Jones - our hgh price acquisition
  He is improving but still not the difference maker? Will his path to be a difference maker be gotten easier now that we have signed Williams?

Fair.

• JSN - our #20 pick
  For many reasons, he is not playing like a #20 and first WR to be picked, should we assign more opportunities to help JSN? or we rather allocate those opportunities to our TEs?

Buried on depth chart, rookie.

• Hall - our 2nd round pic
  With Nwosu out, Hall has a big shoe to fill, somehow he hasn't flashed enough to inspire confidence?

Buried on depth chart, rookie.

 

[keasley45]

We're all entitled to our own opinion but I'll have to say that I personally don't agree with any of those statements.

Same here. ANd @toffee, i usually agree with you on most things.

I think when the line is solid and players like JSN Bobo and inexplicably, DK, leave their brain farts in the lockerroom and (for the rooks) get more experience, the QB play can elevate. I'd expect it to be a degree or two less with wr's running wrong routes and a MASH unit for an o-line. If there was no almost pick 6 against the Browns that JSN walked him into, no pick against the Bengals that DK surrendered on, and better commnictaion between Bobo and he on the INT against the cards, i think we are looking at a solid performance overll for the year by Geno. that being said, dude still needs to stop forcing balls to his top 2 and speed up his footwork. His reads are good, he just needs to get there a tick faster.

Mafe has been stellar

Jones shows up in Reed's statline, and i'll wager he pops a good deal more now with Williams in the rotation.

JSN is young and running routes that are a Seattle staple, but require a pretty solid understanding of how NFL defenses play zone (and the speed at which windows close). Whe we've designed plays to get him the ball on the move, hes been great. When we've asked him to make decisions within his route based on coverages, he's contributed to at least one INT and almost walked Geno into a pick 6 vs the Browns when he stopped his route at the top.


Hall is a rookie who is trying to gain traction between a rotation of solid players. He needs to be on the field to gain experience. He has all the physical tools. He just needs opportunity.

And Cross- he has been down a bit, but hes also playing through a pretty difficult injury for a big guy to tolerate without his play beigng impacted a bit. He's also been dealing with a turnstyle of players next to him which in invariably affect

And i'd add to this that the most disappointing aspect of our team to date has been our running game. i dont think we've been scheming it affectively and ZC needs to get more touches. Teams should be more concerned than they are that we'll beat the snot out of them and instead, we are leaing on the pass far too much. Maybe its a 'marathin' strategy to try to work sharpen our passing attack against the softer defenses early in the year, so that its solid late, knowing we can turn the ground game up and lean on it when we need it. Well, now is the time.

All in all, i think we are actually looking solid all around. Mark Schlereth on Dave and Bob has pointed out several times that for our offense to be as good as its been it pretty incredible. For us to be 5-2, even moreso, especially since the games we've lost, we've lost on our own. That speaks to the fact that we have a pretty solid group with a very high ceiling.

We arent even to the halfway point. It happens every year that teams that look unbeatable early, come back to earth by week 12 and good teams that look less than that, find their stride by then. Our arrow is for certain pointing up. Way up, in my opinion.

 

[getnasty]

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with everything on this list but what I do beleive is that we haven't played close to our potential yet.

There is plenty of room for growth with many of the guys you mentioned and I'll throw in DK and Love.

Then you bring in Williams and the OL getting healthy, we are far from our ceiling.

 

[seahawks08]

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with everything on this list but what I do beleive is that we haven't played close to our potential yet.

There is plenty of room for growth with many of the guys you mentioned and I'll throw in DK and Love.

Then you bring in Williams and the OL getting healthy, we are far from our ceiling.

This. We are just getting started, I hope we grow into and efficient and disciplined imposing our will kind of team by Thanksgiving

 

[WarHawks]

I said it when he was drafted, he could be an All-Pro LG, but just an average to above avg. LT. The reason for this is there is a speed to power conversion that takes place when out on an island that LT's play on, that gives him the most fits. Playing inside at LG he doesn't have to worry about this, and would dominate.

His agent, and himself would probably never accept a position switch. That sweet, sweet, LT money is just too damn good to ever give up. Fringe top 10 is his ceiling, but you will have to pay him top 5 LT money when he is up for a new contract. Which by then will be $30M a year.

Great analysis. Spot on.

 

[Fade]

Cross, in my opinion, is somewhat undersized just like Duane Brown. I just felt like he got pushed back a step or so more than Lucas on the right side. So far he is an average LT, I am hoping to see more improvements, but kinda afraid that those improvements may come on his contract year.

It's not a power issue. it's a speed/balance issue, that converts into power. So it looks like a power issue to the untrained eye.

I think Williams will take snaps from Mario, with Reed playing really good, I think you are right that Jones may see more opportunities as OL has to double Reed and Williams.

It's not about snaps, but matchups. There are plenty of snaps to go around, but in Nickel I expect Williams and Jones on the inside with Williams drawing the double team. But we'll have to wait and see what it looks like.

or JSN has to leverage whatever opportunities that come his way. Some WR just takes more time to develop, could our JSN be one of those?

JSN is kind of a finished product already. There isn't much to develop there. He does need to get on the same page with the QB, they are disjointed. In the meantime, roll with more 12 personnel which they are more effective out of anyway.

 

[CallMeADawg]

It's not a power issue. it's a speed/balance issue, that converts into power. So it looks like a power issue to the untrained eye.



It's not about snaps, but matchups. There are plenty of snaps to go around, but in Nickel I expect Williams and Jones on the inside with Williams drawing the double team. But we'll have to wait and see what it looks like.



JSN is kind of a finished product already. There isn't much to develop there. He does need to get on the same page with the QB, they are disjointed. In the meantime, roll with more 12 personnel which they are more effective out of anyway.

Useless diatribe 101.

 

[GemCity]

When it comes to JSNs performance, he’s not the problem.

He’s open.

 

[toffee]

How did Cross play today?