NFL Network on Kam at 4PM Pacific

[DavidSeven]

Much as Chancellor and his agent Alvin Keels — the same agent who in 2013 negotiated the four-year extension for Chancellor that is now only 25-percent complete — privately are making the case he should be paid in line with the $9 million-plus Byrd, McCourty and Thomas are getting, the fact is Chancellor still has the best deal of any NFL strong safety. The Miami Dolphins' Reshad Jones is technically the highest-paid strong safety on a per-year basis by a margin of $2,500 over Chancellor, though Chancellor's contract edged Jones' deal in the key metrics of guaranteed money ($17 million for Chancellor to $15 million for Jones) and two-year payout ($16.1 million for Chancellor, $13.7 million for Jones).

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/seat ... off-090915

I think that article is correct, HB2015. He was to be paid over $16M in cash to cover the first two years of his extension (2014, 2015). Some of it was obviously paid earlier in 2013. Still, that is an average of essentially $8M/Year in new money through this season. Not bad at all. At the time, it was a pretty huge contract for an unproven strong safety. A year earlier (2011), Donte Whitner had signed a 3-year/$12M contract with the 49ers. Most had assumed Seattle would use those figures to extend Chancellor for something closer to 4-years/$16-20M. When he ended up getting 4-years/$28M, that definitely wasn't considered "team-friendly" by any stretch at the time.

 

[mikeak]

The question asked here should be: Does Kam have a reasonable contract based on how players with similar contribution to success are allowed to set their agreements?
.

1) Is it reasonable? Of course it is. If he was getting paid $1 million then it would not be reasonable but he is still the highest paid you have to look at the life of the contract

2) Do you look at that part every day? Nope, do you look at it after year 1 out of 4 NOPE, do you look at it after year 3 - yes absolutely

You do not sit out the whole training camp and the first game in 2015 because you want to shift money in 2017 to 2016

THAT IS UNREASONABLE (and stupid)

How about sitting out in 2016 instead.......

 

[Rocket]

The question asked here should be: Does Kam have a reasonable contract based on how players with similar contribution to success are allowed to set their agreements?

Doesn't matter. Life ain't fair. HE AGREED TO THESE TERMS... WILLINGLY AND HAPPILY. Because his agent said it was reasonable and he, kam, just saw $$$.

Blame his agent for not knowing the ins and outs of NFL contracts. I do.

 

[NOLAHawk]

Kam is a great player. I support his holdout but it's a gamble that lost and put the team in a spot because we have a great but flabby safety.

Fire and sue the agent that let him do this. Kam plays football not lawyers.

 

[ringless]

The question asked here should be: Does Kam have a reasonable contract based on how players with similar contribution to success are allowed to set their agreements?

Doesn't matter. Life ain't fair. HE AGREED TO THESE TERMS... WILLINGLY AND HAPPILY. Because his agent said it was reasonable and he, kam, just saw $$$.

Blame his agent for not knowing the ins and outs of NFL contracts. I do.

Not to troll too terribly much but it seems Americans support divorce. Something that is suppose to be a lifetime agreement if memory serves me right. Yet 50% end up in divorce. I don't see people up all in arms, yet they do over a childs game (football)

Just a little perspective. Nobody has to take the bate either. :stirthepot: My point is, 50% of people should be in support of Kam, and 50% shouldn't be.

 

[MVP53]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, Kam just wants to move guaranteed money from his '17 salary to his '16 salary in the amount of about $4M? And that the Hawks have agreed to move $3.1M up? That is where the $900K figure comes from?

I just cannot believe that is true. 1) Because that would be incredibly stupid of the Hawks. And 2), because it would be incredibly stupid for Kam to have not accepted that.

Kam has said he agreed to "meet the Hawks half way". IF Kam has "dropped" his asking price down to $4M in advanced money, what on earth was he asking for in the first place? $8M? Was he asking to be paid $13M next year? That's ludicrous.

This whole story stinks. I don't buy a second of what Kam said yesterday.

 

[Fade]

Much as Chancellor and his agent Alvin Keels — the same agent who in 2013 negotiated the four-year extension for Chancellor that is now only 25-percent complete — privately are making the case he should be paid in line with the $9 million-plus Byrd, McCourty and Thomas are getting, the fact is Chancellor still has the best deal of any NFL strong safety. The Miami Dolphins' Reshad Jones is technically the highest-paid strong safety on a per-year basis by a margin of $2,500 over Chancellor, though Chancellor's contract edged Jones' deal in the key metrics of guaranteed money ($17 million for Chancellor to $15 million for Jones) and two-year payout ($16.1 million for Chancellor, $13.7 million for Jones).

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/seat ... off-090915

This is what I have been saying the whole time. How can you argue you are underpaid, when you have the best contract at your position? Let alone only 1 year of 4 into it.

I'm just hoping the front office hasn't offered to move $3M+ up, if true holdouts will become routine.

 

[Redsand187]

Shifting would mean there is less for his final year. It makes it so he can retire without giving up much or force a new contract before the final year because Seattle would give up their leverage.

The way to do it which I am sure Kam doesn't want is to turn it to signing bonus. He gets the money earlier but can't retire earlier without having to pay it back.

I think he feels he has 2 more seasons of high level performance left in him. The 3rd year he will probably not be performing as well as we are used to, and will be his most expensive year. It will be an easy decision to cut him then, meaning he loses out on his biggest payday. If he moves the money around so he gets next year, his last great year, to be his highest paid, he gets all of his money, as his performance will likely be good enough to justify paying him 3 million or whatever they are going for in 2017. Thus, he gets paid for his entire contract.

I think he sees there is a good chance we won't see all the money with the deal structured they way it was originally.

 

[mrt144]

The question asked here should be: Does Kam have a reasonable contract based on how players with similar contribution to success are allowed to set their agreements?

Doesn't matter. Life ain't fair. HE AGREED TO THESE TERMS... WILLINGLY AND HAPPILY. Because his agent said it was reasonable and he, kam, just saw $$$.

Blame his agent for not knowing the ins and outs of NFL contracts. I do.

Not to troll too terribly much but it seems Americans support divorce. Something that is suppose to be a lifetime agreement if memory serves me right. Yet 50% end up in divorce. I don't see people up all in arms, yet they do over a childs game (football)

Just a little perspective. Nobody has to take the bate either. :stirthepot: My point is, 50% of people should be in support of Kam, and 50% shouldn't be.

I support Kam as a worker (and something that I like waxing on about in the absence of anyone else playing contrarian), but don't support him as a fan of the team where I want our ideal lineup out there playing. It'd be a tougher duality to hold together if it wasn't a game.

As for the divorce analogy, unfortunately you are going to get a set of hardliners who are so inflexible they'd prefer to see people be unhappy and stuck rather than someone seemingly invalidate the gravitas of marriage as if other people's marriages are important to your own, which really speaks to a bleak worldview not worth sharing with anyone.

 

[kearly]

He is not simply asking for an extra 4 mil, he is gutting the last year of his deal, really eliminating it. So he gets a bite at the apple a year early, and he would most definitely want a big deal with a big signing bonus after next season. And his agent knows that in free agency there is a huge difference between 29 and 30 years of age.

4 mil bump plus hitting free agency a year early? it isn't just about 900,000

and his poor choice of words makes him look like an ingrate. I woke up to my newsfeed headline of "Kam calls Seahawks petty".

He has negotiated in bad faith, and now, no matter the intention of his words, has given media a way to make it personal.

$900k is a reference to the gap in negotiations, not the total amount Kam is asking for. Kam has said in his own words that the team's current offer is $900k away from getting him back.

I haven't heard anything that suggests that Kam is fighting to get the last year of his deal knocked off. It would be smart of Kam, and personally I'd be fine with it, but I haven't heard anything reported that supports that kind of assertion. Did I miss something?

 

[Recon_Hawk]

His agent Alvin Keels also represents Byron Maxwell:
https://twitter.com/alvinkeels

Dude got Maxwell paid. But he's giving really bad advice to Kam.

Clayton says the Seahawks are being pressured by the other owners not to cave. I don't think JS or Carroll could pay him even if they wanted to. I'm not even sure they can get all his fines dropped.

FWIW, he's not asking for $1 million. He said he wants $3m pushed into 2016. So, not sure what people are talking about with 900k or whatever.

His agent has him getting a $3m raise as it stands now (according to reports). Perhaps demanding 4m is getting greedy, but it's hard to argue that he's not helping his clients earn max value.

No, his agent hasn't gotten him anything. He's sitting this week and will pay $300k to do so. Further, his actions just told every other GM in the NFL that his signature on a contract doesn't mean anything. Which will significantly hurt his ability to negotiate in free agency.

His agent is greedy to the point of being clueless. It is impossible to sustain success when you only care about tiny short term gains to the detriment of long term earnings.

The cutting of overpaid players by every GM hasn't hurt their ability to negotiate, yet when an over achieving player utilizes his only move to renogetiate it's consider career suicide?

Of course every GM hates seeing the power to renogetiate a contract in the hands of the players and not just their own, but that doesn't mean future teams are going stand together on this and refuse to sign an elite safety.

Heck, most GMs would agree with Chancellor that he is worth way more than the $4.5m he is set to earn. They just hate losing whatever leverage they have over its employees contracts, but I think all would understand it's just a business move and the only real move a player has to get an immediate raise.

 

[SeaTown81]

FWIW, he's not asking for $1 million. He said he wants $3m pushed into 2016. So, not sure what people are talking about with 900k or whatever.

Seattle's offer on the table is 900k short of Kam's demands.

Says who? The DC based reporter that Kam's agent hand picked to deliver their warped message in a weak attempt to control the conversation through the national media?

This is no different than that ridiculous Josina Anderson PR spin they tried a month ago. Brock and Salk said it today they are hearing he exact opposite from people in the Hawks organization. That they aren't negotiating with him. Ever notice how when Kam speaks it's never to a local reporter? It's on purpose. Keeps hand picking his own national people to use to push their agenda into the public, and try to force into public perception. This is Karl Rove-esque misdirection. And it's apparently working on some fans and media, who suddenly now think it's close and that Kam isn't being unreasonable. Where this $900k number comes from is beyond me. He wants a $4 million raise for next season! That's not peanuts. Not at all. Don't fall for cheap PR spin. He's only doing it because he has so little a hand to play. It's desperation tactics.

 

[kearly]

FWIW, he's not asking for $1 million. He said he wants $3m pushed into 2016. So, not sure what people are talking about with 900k or whatever.

Seattle's offer on the table is 900k short of Kam's demands.

Says who? The DC based reporter that Kam's agent hand picked to deliver their warped message in a weak attempt to control the conversation through the national media?

This is no different than that ridiculous Josina Anderson PR spin they tried a month ago. Brock and Salk said it today they are hearing he exact opposite from people in the Hawks organization. That they aren't negotiating with him. Ever notice how when Kam speaks it's never to a local reporter? It's on purpose. Keeps hand picking his own national people to use to push their agenda into the public, and try to force into public perception. This is Karl Rove-esque misdirection. And it's apparently working on some fans and media, who suddenly now think it's close and that Kam isn't being unreasonable. Where this $900k number comes from is beyond me. He wants a $4 million raise for next season! That's not peanuts. Not at all. Don't fall for cheap PR spin. He's only doing it because he has so little a hand to play. It's desperation tactics.

That's interesting to think about. Wouldn't the Seahawks then release a statement saying this is totally false just like they would for most other rumors (edit) that would undermine their position?

Personally, I find it very believable that Seattle is negotiating a compromise. And given that Kam is being emotional over a $900k difference, this doesn't feel invented to me.

Even if you are right and this is totally made up, we can at least deduce that Kam's goal is *probably* to add $4 million, not tens of millions on some new mega-deal (I personally think if Kam was jonesing for a mega-extension we would have heard it leaked by now). If it really is over $4 million, that means that every game check Kam loses and every day of $30k fines is going to be really tough to swallow. I'd bet he's back in the next month, if not much sooner.

 

[hawknation2015]

FWIW, he's not asking for $1 million. He said he wants $3m pushed into 2016. So, not sure what people are talking about with 900k or whatever.

Seattle's offer on the table is 900k short of Kam's demands.

Says who? The DC based reporter that Kam's agent hand picked to deliver their warped message in a weak attempt to control the conversation through the national media?

This is no different than that ridiculous Josina Anderson PR spin they tried a month ago. Brock and Salk said it today they are hearing he exact opposite from people in the Hawks organization. That they aren't negotiating with him. Ever notice how when Kam speaks it's never to a local reporter? It's on purpose. Keeps hand picking his own national people to use to push their agenda into the public, and try to force into public perception. This is Karl Rove-esque misdirection. And it's apparently working on some fans and media, who suddenly now think it's close and that Kam isn't being unreasonable. Where this $900k number comes from is beyond me. He wants a $4 million raise for next season! That's not peanuts. Not at all. Don't fall for cheap PR spin. He's only doing it because he has so little a hand to play. It's desperation tactics.

That's interesting to think about. Wouldn't the Seahawks then release a statement saying this is totally false just like they would for most other rumors?

Personally, I find it very believable that Seattle is negotiating a compromise. And given that Kam is being emotional over a $900k difference, this doesn't feel invented to me.

No, the team does not respond to every rumor. It's particularly difficult to respond to rumors about ongoing negotiations that may impair future decision making.

 

[kearly]

No, the team does not respond to every rumor.

Not saying "every" rumor but they will respond in many cases when being silent would hurt their position. For example, they immediately reacted to debunk the Kam trade rumors.

 

[ringless]

Why doesnt the team just do nothing.

Thats what I would want my FO to do. The player will show up. No way Kam forfeits al that money. I don't see how Kam doesnt show up before game day. The thought of losing another 270k on Sunday has to be pretty frightening considering he is under contract until 30.

 

[hawknation2015]

No, the team does not respond to every rumor. It's particularly difficult to respond to rumors about ongoing negotiations that may impair future decision making.

Not saying "every" rumor but they will respond in many cases when being silent would hurt their position. For example, they immediately reacted to debunk the Kam trade rumors.

Immediately is misleading. Carroll responded to a question several days later when asked directly whether they were considering a trade. However, if Carroll were asked a question in his next press conference about specific figures in the negotiation, that would probably not be answered. It's not in their best interest to make a deal seem more far apart or to make Kam look bad. They just want him back on field, ASAP, without compromising the integrity of this agreement or future agreements.

 

[CodeWarrior]

Heck, most GMs would agree with Chancellor that he is worth way more than the $4.5m he is set to earn.

This $4.5M figure needs to disappear. That is his base salary. Include the prorated portion of his signing bonus and he is set to earn over $5.5M this season. Average yearly earnings of over $7M. Tops for a SS.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Heck, most GMs would agree with Chancellor that he is worth way more than the $4.5m he is set to earn.

This $4.5M figure needs to disappear. That is his base salary. Include the prorated portion of his signing bonus and he is set to earn over $5.5M this season. Average yearly earnings of over $7M. Tops for a SS.

You are right. $5.5m is better way of looking at it. I don't consider APY as the best measurement tool, though.

GMs don't look at APY when they cut a player or ask them to take a pay cut because their salaries escalate later in their contracts.

 

[Fade]

Heck, most GMs would agree with Chancellor that he is worth way more than the $4.5m he is set to earn.

That's not how it works. You can't view 1 year in a vacuum. He was given around $8M before his extension even kicked in via signing bonus, and a bump in his base salary in the last year of his rookie contract. They gave him his money upfront so he would have more manageable cap numbers going forward.