NFL Network on Kam at 4PM Pacific

[hawknation2015]

No, the team does not respond to every rumor. It's particularly difficult to respond to rumors about ongoing negotiations that may impair future decision making.

Not saying "every" rumor but they will respond in many cases when being silent would hurt their position. For example, they immediately reacted to debunk the Kam trade rumors.

Immediately is misleading. Carroll responded to a question several days later when asked directly whether they were considering a trade. However, if Carroll were asked a question in his next press conference about specific figures in the negotiation, that would probably not be answered. It's not in their best interest to make a deal seem more far apart or to make Kam look bad. They just want him back on field, ASAP, without compromising the integrity of this agreement or future agreements.

At any rate, it was something they debunked within a short time frame. If they felt that Kam was lying to gain some kind of PR edge, they could debunk that without needing to go into details.

Maybe they will at Carroll's next press conference. However, there is a clear incentive for them not to address contract specifics one way or the other, much less to call Kam a liar for his possibly inaccurate description of the negotiations. It does not benefit them to do so.

 

[kearly]

Maybe they will at Carroll's next press conference. However, there is a clear incentive for them not to address contract specifics one way or the other, much less to call Kam a liar for his possibly inaccurate description of the negotiations. It does not benefit them to do so.

They don't have to call him a liar, just debunk it. It's extremely common in these cases to have two sides of the story reported in the media.

 

[hawknation2015]

Maybe they will at Carroll's next press conference. However, there is a clear incentive for them not to address contract specifics one way or the other, much less to call Kam a liar for his possibly inaccurate description of the negotiations. It does not benefit them to do so.

They don't have to call him a liar, just debunk it. It's extremely common in these cases to have two sides of the story reported in the media.

We went through months of unwarranted speculation that Marshawn's days with the team were numbered, until Carroll was finally asked about it at a press conference and dismissed the rumors.

There were many false rumors about the Wilson contract negotiations floated out there with none being addressed by the team. And those were not occuring in the middle of game week.

You can't make the assumption that something is true solely because the team has not debunked it. It's a radically faulty assumption to make.

 

[kearly]

We went through months of unwarranted speculation that Marshawn's days with the team were numbered, until Carroll was finally asked about it at a press conference and finally dismissed the rumors.

A lot of people at the time felt that Carroll's silence for so long spoke volumes.

I'm personally of the opinion that Marshawn's outstanding 2014 season, coupled with Turbin and Michael looking less than ready to take over, may have changed the way PC/JS viewed Marshawn's long term future with the team.

Just a theory of mine.

There's a good chance that Kam's claims will be brought up at Pete's next presser. It'll be interesting to see what he says. My guess is that Pete won't say much. I think Kam is about to crack, and my guess is that Pete thinks that too.

There were many false rumors about the Wilson contract negotiations floated out there with none being addressed by the team. And those were not occuring in the middle of game week.

You can't make the assumption that something is true solely because the team has not debunked it. It's a radically faulty assumption to make.

In the case of Wilson, his agent Rodgers was very careful not to leak particulars in interviews and really all we had to go off of were leaks from the FO to media members like Danny O'Neil that largely proved to be true (that Wilson was roughly in the same range as Cam Newton).

To be clear, I'm not saying that every statement is true until debunked, I'm just saying that if a rumor badly hurt a GM's bargaining position I think they would debunk it in most cases. If they don't debunk it, it's not proof of any kind, but it is interesting fodder for theory-crafting.

 

[hawknation2015]

Here was Pete Carroll's response when a reporter finally asked him to address the speculation about Marshawn's future with the team:

Carroll: "If you guys ever would have asked, which you didn't, I would have told you we want him around here as long as he can play. There's never been any hesitation and there's never been another thought about that.

"That came totally from somewhere else. He's under contract next year and we'll be thrilled to have him playing for us. We'll do everything we can to get that done."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11915 ... hawn-lynch

In other words, do NOT take silence by the team as an admission. It's not their job to debunk every rumor. And in many cases, such as an ongoing contract negotiation, it is highly disadvantageous to say whether a specific figure is accurate -- or to call out the other side for exaggerating the scope of the negotiation. That's not likely to happen.

 

[Seafan]

@Seafan

How has he earned $18m so far? Im actually I'm curious cause I could not reach that number. Even if that's true the way I see it, Kam has been worth every penny of $18 million the last two years. He's a top 10 safety regardless of position. If he hit the open market today he'd hit close to $9-$10 million a year. Now he wants to keep getting paid like that so why shouldn't he?

By this recent report out on it seems like the Hawk agree somewhat and they are looking give in a little. Now kam needs to a bit himself, too.

Yeah it was $12mil.

The Hawks won't give in. They can't. He's the 2nd highest paid SS by a few thousand.

I have a problem with Kam's covetous nature. He happily signed the contract the Hawks never had to offer and many here thought was too high. If he's smart he knows the Hawks don't have the money he was seeking and the terrible precedent it would set on this team. Now he's created in public his own face saving scenario. Sure he held out 41 days, missed the first game of the season and left his brothers so the Hawks would switch $1m from one year to another. SMH

 

[kearly]

Here was Pete Carroll's response when a reporter finally asked him to address the speculation about Marshawn's future with the team:

Carroll: "If you guys ever would have asked, which you didn't, I would have told you we want him around here as long as he can play. There's never been any hesitation and there's never been another thought about that.

"That came totally from somewhere else. He's under contract next year and we'll be thrilled to have him playing for us. We'll do everything we can to get that done."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11915 ... hawn-lynch

In other words, do NOT take silence by the team as an admission. It's not their job to debunk every rumor. And in many cases, such as an ongoing contract negotiation, it is highly disadvantageous to say whether a specific figure is accurate -- or to call out the other side for exaggerating the scope of the negotiation.

Again, theories here. I always thought he said that to cover himself for not addressing it way sooner.

I think silence is suspicious, not factual. It tends to make me suspect there could be something to it. But it's not proof.

 

[kearly]

The Seahawks do not negotiate through the media. Something that Kam's agent has been trying to do for some time now. This is what happens when one side has ZERO leverage. They try to create it by tricking lazy media. And it works in terms of public perception. It's modern politics 101. But it doesn't get them anywhere with the Hawks.

Not only do they not negotiate through the media, they also want Kam back. They don't want to go to war with him publicly. They don't want to make him look bad. That's not their style. Schneider is currently tasked with getting Kam back without him feeling further wronged or disgruntled. You don't gain that by sniping back in the media. Saying they aren't interested in trading him is something entirely different. That doesn't make him look bad. It shows their commitment to him.

Lastly, this $900k nonsense. Like I said, this his his attempt to come off resonable. As if he's not demanding his next 2 seasons of pay paid to him next year. He's trying to make the Hawks look like they aren't working with him and that he's done his part. If you believe that, I don't know what to tell you. If it was really that close, he's a flat out idiot for not coming bs k by now. The amount of fines he could've had forgiven plus this game check are more than $900k. So that right there shows that figure is BS. No, he wants to get paid $9 million next year, instead of $5. End of story. Don't fall for such a desperate political Hail Mary. thats all yesterday was. I think he's close to coming back. Not because they are close. But because this is all a sign of just how little leverage he has. Lawyer Milloy, who has his back on this, admitted as much today. Dude has ZERO leverage if he wants to get paid.

There are some examples of the FO leaking stuff to the media in the past, and personally I'm 100% fine with it since it usually helps their position.

And as far as the $900k thing. For all we know, the alleged $3.1 million offer that Kam claims was made to him could have happened very shortly before he made that statement. We don't really know how much money he's lost since turning it down.

With that said, I DO think something smells fishy here. According to Kam's own numbers, the team is meeting 77.5% of his demands, so complaining about meeting him halfway seems greedy and stupid when they already went more than halfway to what he wanted. We can probably agree that if Kam's story is true, then he's an idiot for turning down Seattle's offer. Which is reason enough for you to reasonably suspect he could be making it up.

You make a great point about Seattle needing to find a way to help Kam save face. I suspect that some of Kam's fines will not be forgiven, but that he'll have a token amount of financial concessions to help cover the cost to help ease the blow to his pride.

 

[HansGruber]

The Seahawks posted this article to Facebook with the following status:

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2015/0...-true”-start-place-still-absent-strong-safety

“It’s just a surreal moment, I never expected to be in this position at this point in my career after the path I’ve taken. I’ve got to take advantage of it. I’ve been waiting my whole life for this opportunity." - Safety Dion Bailey
‪#‎SEAvsSTL‬

That speaks volumes to me. I think we have no choice but to trade Kam if his holdout lasts into week 4.

 

[kearly]

That speaks volumes to me. I think we have no choice but to trade Kam if his holdout lasts into week 4.

A trade could be a reward of sorts since it would likely involve a new deal from the buying team. People with connections to the FO have reported for a while that Seattle is immediately hanging up on trade offers, and a few days ago Pete Carroll said directly to the media that the team does not want to trade Kam.

I don't think the FO wants to punish Kam. They are frustrated and disappointed, sure. That said, if they did want to punish Kam, but best punishment would be to do nothing at all.

That Kam is pleading via the media shows that he's getting desperate and wants this to be over soon. I think he caves sometime in the next month, maybe even in the next few days.

I really like how PC/JS have handled this so far. You can tell they are irritated, but they haven't made it personal. They are literally going about their business as if Kam were on IR. That's exactly the right mentality to have, while Kam feels the screws tighten on him every single day. PC/JS are using the CBA as a weapon, just as they should.

 

[WilsonMVP]

That speaks volumes to me. I think we have no choice but to trade Kam if his holdout lasts into week 4.

A trade could be a reward of sorts since it would likely involve a new deal from the buying team. People with connections to the FO have reported for a while that Seattle is immediately hanging up on trade offers, and a few days ago Pete Carroll said directly to the media that the team does not want to trade Kam.

I don't think the FO wants to punish Kam. They are frustrated and disappointed, sure. That said, if they did want to punish Kam, but best punishment would be to do nothing at all.

That Kam is pleading via the media shows that he's getting desperate and wants this to be over soon. I think he caves sometime in the next month, maybe even in the next few days.

I would rather he just sit and not play than trade him

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm just waiting for people to somehow blame Wilson for this as well :mrgreen:

 

[c_hawkbob]

The Seahawks posted this article to Facebook with the following status:

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2015/0...-true”-start-place-still-absent-strong-safety

“It’s just a surreal moment, I never expected to be in this position at this point in my career after the path I’ve taken. I’ve got to take advantage of it. I’ve been waiting my whole life for this opportunity." - Safety Dion Bailey
‪#‎SEAvsSTL‬

That speaks volumes to me. I think we have no choice but to trade Kam if his holdout lasts into week 4.

Exactly what part of that story makes you think trade?

That's just a 'from the perspective of the new guy" piece that they always run for every single new guy breaking into the starting lineup.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Getting to the point where you'd be ready to trade him if he isn't here for Green Bay?

If a player wants to be this aggressive to force a move, let him go and play for one of the mediocre franchises out there and let's get a high pick in return. If anyone else wants to pull this stunt -- let them. Part of the Patriots success (aside from all the cheating) is knowing when to move on. If you don't want to play for some of the best fans in the NFL, in a fantastic part of the country for a coach who just gets his players and let's them be themselves. If you don't want to be part of a perennial contender... Off you go. Your loss.

Let's take a first round pick for him and draft someone who WANTS to be here. Next man up.

 

[CodeWarrior]

Kam has been worth every penny of $18 million the last two years. He's a top 10 safety regardless of position. If he hit the open market today he'd hit close to $9-$10 million a year.

How do you arrive at this conclusion? Some formulaic approach, or just applying the ol' eye test?

 

[CodeWarrior]

Getting to the point where you'd be ready to trade him if he isn't here for Green Bay?

If a player wants to be this aggressive to force a move, let him go and play for one of the mediocre franchises out there and let's get a high pick in return. If anyone else wants to pull this stunt -- let them. Part of the Patriots success (aside from all the cheating) is knowing when to move on. If you don't want to play for some of the best fans in the NFL, in a fantastic part of the country for a coach who just gets his players and let's them be themselves. If you don't want to be part of a perennial contender... Off you go. Your loss.

Let's take a first round pick for him and draft someone who WANTS to be here. Next man up.

Yeah. See you later, Richard Seymour.

 

[JAGHAWK]

I had a dream last night that Kam came to his senses. I'll be watching reports today, like a hawk.

Get it? Hawk!


I'll see myself out.

 

[Ad Hawk]

I'm just waiting for people to somehow blame Wilson for this as well :mrgreen:

Wilson? Are you serious?!?

How could this be anyone but Bevel's fault?

 

[idahawks]

@Seafan

How has he earned $18m so far? Im actually I'm curious cause I could not reach that number. Even if that's true the way I see it, Kam has been worth every penny of $18 million the last two years. He's a top 10 safety regardless of position. If he hit the open market today he'd hit close to $9-$10 million a year. Now he wants to keep getting paid like that so why shouldn't he?

By this recent report out on it seems like the Hawk agree somewhat and they are looking give in a little. Now kam needs to a bit himself, too.

How can you say he'd get 10-12 million right now when the highest paid SS in the league is getting $7million?

 

[BuZzB28]

Why Kam wanted more moneys for 10 to 14 million a year? We can't afford him? If he is leaving or trade else team. It's suck..