Mike Evans would you?

[Attyla the Hawk]

With how little we throw the ball, you gotta catch the ball. A lot of those look like straight up trying to get up field before he has the ball, that can be coached up. I just don't see how he's a better prospect than Matthews, Coleman, or even ASJ when it comes to pass catchers

Matthews needs to be more consistent in catching the ball. I would say he's average -- maybe even a shade under average at that. He makes a LOT of catches, some of really spectacular variety. But he had a good number of drops and I'd say most of the ones I saw were just on him.

Generally, I don't necessarily ding prospects for consistency issues. I look for the ability to flash good hands occasionally, and a genuine tendency to try to catch the ball with the hands in the correct position. Matthews, when he does drop them, it's just not securing balls in his hands. He isn't a body catcher. It's much harder to convert a body catcher (like Coleman) into a consistent hand catcher than it is to just get better at hand catching.

Consistency comes with work. The NCAA is just too restrictive with their practice limits to really work on that. Unless you are just naturally great at catching the ball, it's going to be an issue. Those things are correctable. In general, I like the basis from where Matthews starts in terms of catching the ball correctly. With the body of work and the catches he does make, he clearly doesn't have hands of stone.

Coleman is a guy I've long had a nagging concern with. He doesn't pluck the ball out of the air with his hands with regularity. He also looks a little awkward when he does catch balls (a liability shared by Benjamin). Balls tend to just eat him up like a tricky grounder to a utility infielder. He didn't improve his tracking of the ball in the air in my estimation, nor did he really grow in his catching skills. By all accounts I've heard -- he is a very willing worker. But the results this year has been really disappointing to me.

I don't think it's all on the knee. I'm just talking ball skills. He just doesn't appear to have developed this year in that regard. I would have liked to see him flash improvement in that area.

 

[randomation]

I was trying to find someone to compare KB to. Does anyone else think Mike Williams is pretty fair? Similar size and stature, both catch well with hands and highpoint the ball well.

He had a drop rate of just under 10% that is not the mark of someone who catches well rofl.

[youtube]3llpin2PFv4[/youtube]

I can find a highlight video of some amazing drops for cripes sake.

Wes Wellkers drop rate was 9% this year.

Its not just the rate its how he drops them he makes some incredibly acrobatic catches but he also drops a lot of easy ones he doesn't secure the ball he turns to go up field before its secure and body catches a lot he only catches away from his body on difficult catches. Which yeah its great he wins 50/50s but he drops a lot of easy balls.

 

[kigenzun]

I'd love to have Evans but I think our draft picks are going to hold even more importance these next few years when we have to start replenishing the roster for the guys we won't be able to afford. I'm completely in favor of drafting a WR this year, just not trading up giving up a boat load to do so.. especially for Evans who IMO could crack the Top 10 of the draft when it's all said and done.

Would you trade Bruce Irvin, Christine Michael, and James Carpenter for Mike Evans? Those are our two most recent 1st rounders, and our most recent 2nd rounder. Obviously, we wouldn't trade those players, but I do think that group gives a fairly decent idea of what you'd be giving up. If we traded away the #32, #64, and a future 1st.

Personally, I'm fine with it. Seattle can kill a draft just fine while missing a handful of early picks. Their draft production in the 14-74 draft pick range has been middling anyway.

I hate to say it, but I would trade Bruce Irvin, Christine Michael, and James Carpenter IN A HEARTBEAT RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND for Mike Evans. Similarly, I would trade our 1st, 2nd, and next years 1st to get it done as well. In a heartbeat.

If, say, Tennessee at #9 would take the players, we could draft Evans at #9. And still have our #32 & 64 to draft a G, OLB, or RB. If they wanted the picks, we would gain Evans and lose the conundrum of how to get a big WR with either the 32 or 64, &/or waiting until next year to try again. It would be basically the Percy Harvin trade once more, except this time for Evans.

If we came out of this draft with Mike Evans, and a bunch of 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and UDFA guys to bolster our youth and depth... I would be ecstatic.

Think about it.

 

[randomation]

I'd love to have Evans but I think our draft picks are going to hold even more importance these next few years when we have to start replenishing the roster for the guys we won't be able to afford. I'm completely in favor of drafting a WR this year, just not trading up giving up a boat load to do so.. especially for Evans who IMO could crack the Top 10 of the draft when it's all said and done.

Would you trade Bruce Irvin, Christine Michael, and James Carpenter for Mike Evans? Those are our two most recent 1st rounders, and our most recent 2nd rounder. Obviously, we wouldn't trade those players, but I do think that group gives a fairly decent idea of what you'd be giving up. If we traded away the #32, #64, and a future 1st.

Personally, I'm fine with it. Seattle can kill a draft just fine while missing a handful of early picks. Their draft production in the 14-74 draft pick range has been middling anyway.

I hate to say it, but I would trade Bruce Irvin, Christine Michael, and James Carpenter IN A HEARTBEAT RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND for Mike Evans. Similarly, I would trade our 1st, 2nd, and next years 1st to get it done as well. In a heartbeat.

If, say, Tennessee at #9 would take the players, we could draft Evans at #9. And still have our #32 & 64 to draft a G, OLB, or RB. If they wanted the picks, we would gain Evans and lose the conundrum of how to get a big WR with either the 32 or 64, or wait until next year to try again. It would be basically the Percy Harvin trade all over again, except this time for Evans.

If we came out of this draft with Mike Evans, and a bunch of 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and UDFA guys to bolster our youth and depth... I would be ecstatic.

Think about it.

Agreed much easier for Russ to let go of a fast pass with someone like Evans since he can easily put it up where only Evans will get it. Having a receiver like Evans would actually be greatly helpful to the line since you can just get the ball off so much faster with a target like him. Evans made Manziel look much better then he is honestly watching his mad scrambles half the time he just tosses the ball in Evans direction and prays and Evans makes an incredible play on it make the catch.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

If that's the cost for trading up for Evans (2 first rounders and a second rounder), then I'd have to ask:

Would it be worth signing Jimmy Graham away from New Orleans? Particularly as he's now a non exclusive franchise tag player.

Obviously, the Evans cost would be less on the cap. And he's younger (21 v. 27).

If you're looking at a special player capable of creating a mismatch -- I don't think you can arrive at a more suitable player for that aim than Graham. Matchup nightmare at the TE position.

We'd be rolling over Miller's contract for that and having to cut elsewhere too. But by how much? I mean Miller is due 7m. Any first round pick is going to command close to 1m. We're probably talking maybe a less than 2m at that point. But Evans' ceiling I'm not sure is equal to Graham's current ability. I don't see Evans being the gold standard at his position (particularly for Seattle). And you're not going to get a better big red zone target than Graham. If you want a guy to get the jump ball -- Graham does that better than anyone in the league.

You'd be trading youth and cheap 1st round contracts for a sure thing. Also, I'm not convinced you'd be getting similar production as New Orleans' style of play is different from ours. But I can't help but wonder what kind of offense we could roll out there, with Harvin and Graham lined up next to each other. And I can't help but think that Graham could exploit the middle of the field and open up that portion of the field where Wilson tends to struggle comparatively speaking.

It's pretty clear, our window of opportunity is right now. And it's also looking like it'll be around for awhile. Graham is just entering his prime and we would likely be getting him for his entire prime of his career. In a trade up scenario, if it's going to cost more in draft picks to get Evans -- then I have to wonder if a lesser cost in terms of picks would be worth exploring at the expense of cap space. If we're trading two late first round picks for that kind of quality -- it could be an alternative worth exploring.

Obviously we can't keep trading away 1st round talent. But as noted even last year -- the expected quality of those picks is very suspect. Harvin was worth 3 picks. I have to think Graham is similarly worth those picks relative to what we should expect to get at #32.

I guess I'd just as soon get Graham and draft Coleman later. Rather than just have Evans and Miller. And remember, we could just as well execute a sign and trade with NO. I'm sure they will require 2 first round picks. But possibly we manage to recoup a third rounder in the deal for future considerations? I'd rather have a 3rd rounder this year than say next year.

 

[randomation]

Would rather have evans then "I'm Jimmy" to be completely honest. Also I can see Luke developing into a version of Jimmy that can actually block if he can work on his hands vertical tight end threat will be covered.

 

[Natethegreat]

Obviously I'm a huge Evans fan but I disagree with your assessment that Evans top end won't be as good as Graham. In fact Graham is overrated imo. Soft and easily knocked off his game. I would much prefer a younger cheaper higher upside(imo) Evans than Graham. Its all moot anyway. There is no way we can afford to sign him in the first place.

 

[Natethegreat]

I wonder if Detroit would be open to trading their first pick(#10) for Percy Harvin and Jeron Johnson. It would give them another explosive playmaker at a position of need for them (receiver) plus fill another big hole at safety.
On our part we would open up the cap space we need to keep Bennet, Tate, and possibly Breno, plus get Thomas and Sherman extended. Not to mention we would have an excellent shot at getting Evans as I don't see him going before ten and we get to keep out first pick.

 

[randomation]

After seeing what Percy did in a single game I don't really want him playing for anyone else honestly I would rather trade away this year and next years first and something else and get Evans put Percy in the slot ADB at the 2 and Evans at the 1.

 

[SonicHawk]

I hate Kelvin Benjamin as a receiver. Over. Rated.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

With the expected loss of Tate, I'd favor trading up slightly for OBJ. Size notwithstanding, I am more bullish on Beckham than Evans. Although I concede Evans fills a much harder role to fill. Beckham to me is more electrifying and would be a near ideal approximation to what Tate provided including punt return ability. The cost should be far less to move up for Beckham. Particularly given the talent depth in this years' draft.

 

[kigenzun]

What would the actual cost be?
32 & 64 ?
32 & 128 ?
32 & the Matt Flynn pick from the Raiders ?
32 & a pick from next year ?

And how far do you figure we would have to move up to get OBJ... #20? #25?

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

What would the actual cost be?
32 & 64 ?
32 & 128 ?
32 & the Matt Flynn pick from the Raiders ?
32 & a pick from next year ?

And how far do you figure we would have to move up to get OBJ... #20? #25?

I'd expect to have to move up to that range of 20-25 for OBJ. That typically is a first and third type deal. We'd have to get creative of sorts. Probably 1st and 2nd for their 1st and 3rd.

For Evans. Probably moving to around 8-10 overall. St. Louis went 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th for a 1st and 3rd. Could be a 1st, 2nd, 4th and another choice for a 1st and 5th/6th. Perhaps even more since we'd be moving WAY up further than StL did. StL's move was similar to Atlanta's. That was a 1st, 2nd, 4th and following years' 1st and 4th for just the one 1st. That's likely more the cost we'd be looking at. We'd be trading our day 1 and 2 picks this year, our day 1 picks next year and the first picks of day 3 in both years.

Honestly, it's a Julio Jones type of trade up. Possible partners being the Lions/Bills/Titans. Teams we don't have a lot of history with. The Lions may well be a suitor, as their needs are definitely DB related and they could still get studs at 32 overall. Bills are looking OT most likely and would miss out on a LT. Titans could be holding out for a QB. Figure the Lions would get it done.

If he slid some however, then the Giants would make sense. They need a lot of trench upgrades. They could really fix that OL with 3 picks in the top 2 rounds. Cost should go down considerably. But I'd expect to lose 1st, 2nd and 4th this year at minimum. Probably a 2nd in 2015.

 

[randomation]

What would the actual cost be?
32 & 64 ?
32 & 128 ?
32 & the Matt Flynn pick from the Raiders ?
32 & a pick from next year ?

And how far do you figure we would have to move up to get OBJ... #20? #25?

I'd expect to have to move up to that range of 20-25 for OBJ. That typically is a first and third type deal. We'd have to get creative of sorts. Probably 1st and 2nd for their 1st and 3rd.

For Evans. Probably moving to around 8-10 overall. St. Louis went 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th for a 1st and 3rd. Could be a 1st, 2nd, 4th and another choice for a 1st and 5th/6th. Perhaps even more since we'd be moving WAY up further than StL did. StL's move was similar to Atlanta's. That was a 1st, 2nd, 4th and following years' 1st and 4th for just the one 1st. That's likely more the cost we'd be looking at. We'd be trading our day 1 and 2 picks this year, our day 1 picks next year and the first picks of day 3 in both years.

Honestly, it's a Julio Jones type of trade up. Possible partners being the Lions/Bills/Titans. Teams we don't have a lot of history with. The Lions may well be a suitor, as their needs are definitely DB related and they could still get studs at 32 overall. Bills are looking OT most likely and would miss out on a LT. Titans could be holding out for a QB. Figure the Lions would get it done.

If he slid some however, then the Giants would make sense. They need a lot of trench upgrades. They could really fix that OL with 3 picks in the top 2 rounds. Cost should go down considerably. But I'd expect to lose 1st, 2nd and 4th this year at minimum. Probably a 2nd in 2015.

The Lions might be a possible partner now that they picked up Tate to fill their receiver hole I expected them to take Evans before that.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

What would the actual cost be?
32 & 64 ?
32 & 128 ?
32 & the Matt Flynn pick from the Raiders ?
32 & a pick from next year ?

And how far do you figure we would have to move up to get OBJ... #20? #25?

I'd expect to have to move up to that range of 20-25 for OBJ. That typically is a first and third type deal. We'd have to get creative of sorts. Probably 1st and 2nd for their 1st and 3rd.

For Evans. Probably moving to around 8-10 overall. St. Louis went 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th for a 1st and 3rd. Could be a 1st, 2nd, 4th and another choice for a 1st and 5th/6th. Perhaps even more since we'd be moving WAY up further than StL did. StL's move was similar to Atlanta's. That was a 1st, 2nd, 4th and following years' 1st and 4th for just the one 1st. That's likely more the cost we'd be looking at. We'd be trading our day 1 and 2 picks this year, our day 1 picks next year and the first picks of day 3 in both years.

Honestly, it's a Julio Jones type of trade up. Possible partners being the Lions/Bills/Titans. Teams we don't have a lot of history with. The Lions may well be a suitor, as their needs are definitely DB related and they could still get studs at 32 overall. Bills are looking OT most likely and would miss out on a LT. Titans could be holding out for a QB. Figure the Lions would get it done.

If he slid some however, then the Giants would make sense. They need a lot of trench upgrades. They could really fix that OL with 3 picks in the top 2 rounds. Cost should go down considerably. But I'd expect to lose 1st, 2nd and 4th this year at minimum. Probably a 2nd in 2015.

The Lions might be a possible partner now that they picked up Tate to fill their receiver hole I expected them to take Evans before that.

Exactly. Now they are free to fill their other major need: DB. And they can do that well even from the 32 spot. Which would simply mean we'd need to add enough value with extra picks to offset not getting Gilbert or Dennard, but still getting a Verrett or Roby or Fuller.

 

[HawkMeat]

Depending on the cost, of course. Evans would fill a need.

 

[ErikG803]

I'd definitely consider it. Probably not if it takes the capital needed to move up into the top 10, but if he starts to slide down into the teens...

 

[-The Glove-]

Dude signed with Cash Money Sports...really?

 

[DavidSeven]

If Kelvin Benjamin was already a complete receiver with his size and ability in the redzone, then we wouldn't even be talking about him as a late round guy. He'd be at the top of the draft and would therefore be an afterthought here. Talking about his drops is like missing the forrest for the trees. What CAN he do? What's special about his measurables? What positives has he shown on tape? IMO, there's a lot there to like. Yes, there are things to nitpick, but those little things largely seem like coachable issues to me.

 

[oasis]

Bills traded for Mike Williams so this increases the odds that Evans fall to the teens IMO. Please trade up.