McQuistan Carpenter JeanPierre Sweezy Bowie

[HawKnPeppa]

JeanPierre needs a great game and I hope he steps up.

JeanPierre should be improved since he's already been thrown in the fire then had a chance to reflect and watch Unger.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I just wish there was a backup that would allow McQuistan to move back inside to the Guard spot. The others are serviceable, but I just think that McQ is going to get picked on again at that tackle spot.

This. McQ is NOT an NFL caliber LT.

 

[firebee]

Yes... This line doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, regardless of who you move where. Bailey at LT and McQuistan at LG, McQuistan at LT and Carpenter at LG, Bailey and Carpenter... I see big problems when Sweezy is the only true starter starting at his true position. The rest of the line is backups or starters playing out of position.... I don't even know how this offense is moving the ball under these circumstances. Both OTs and the Center out is about as bad as it gets for an offensive line.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

I don't even know how this offense is moving the ball under these circumstances.

Because our OL, even the backups, are at the worst decent run-blockers and because Wilson and Lynch are deadly on the ground besides.

 

[AgentDib]

I dont care if there is 11 guys in the box.....RUN THE BALL!

So you think our offensive line is completely worthless in pass protection, but will be perfectly capable of opening lanes against an 11 man defensive front. Isn't this taking the "we are built to run block, not pass protect" notion a little too seriously?

Because our OL, even the backups, are at the worst decent run-blockers and because Wilson and Lynch are deadly on the ground besides.

Our running game operates on zone run blocking principles which utilize many of the same attributes (quickness, agility, intelligence) as a typical pass protection scheme. Our personnel may be slightly better at one or the other based on experience, but the difference in effectiveness is very overstated around here. Our offensive line is not comprised of huge angle blockers that are too slow to pass protect.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Because our OL, even the backups, are at the worst decent run-blockers and because Wilson and Lynch are deadly on the ground besides.

Our running game operates on zone run blocking principles which utilize many of the same attributes (quickness, agility, intelligence) as a typical pass protection scheme. Our personnel may be slightly better at one or the other based on experience, but the difference in effectiveness is very overstated around here. Our offensive line is not comprised of huge angle blockers that are too slow to pass protect.

Most decent metrics disagree with you, as do I.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/OL

When it comes to run-blocking, our tackles aren't having to deal with speed rushers around the edge killing running plays, as we run it north-south. Speed rushers have straight up made life miserable for us these past few weeks and that is something that is neutralized by running the ball. Let's be frank, our team just can't deal with quick edge rushers in the passing game; that makes for a big gap between what they can do in the passing and running games.

 

[dontbelikethat]

I just hope our run game will be fine. The last two games Unger was out (HOU&IND), Lynch was still able to get 5.8YPC & 6YPC, so that's a good sign.

 

[Jville]

Every opportunity for Lemuel Jeanpierre to get on the field is huge for him. This is his money year ..... the fourth and final year of his initial contract. I expect to see his best game ever this Sunday.

Go Hawks ....... and run the football!

 

[hawk45]

Because our OL, even the backups, are at the worst decent run-blockers and because Wilson and Lynch are deadly on the ground besides.

Our running game operates on zone run blocking principles which utilize many of the same attributes (quickness, agility, intelligence) as a typical pass protection scheme. Our personnel may be slightly better at one or the other based on experience, but the difference in effectiveness is very overstated around here. Our offensive line is not comprised of huge angle blockers that are too slow to pass protect.

Most decent metrics disagree with you, as do I.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/OL

When it comes to run-blocking, our tackles aren't having to deal with speed rushers around the edge killing running plays, as we run it north-south. Speed rushers have straight up made life miserable for us these past few weeks and that is something that is neutralized by running the ball. Let's be frank, our team just can't deal with quick edge rushers in the passing game; that makes for a big gap between what they can do in the passing and running games.

Yeah, those statistics are jarring, 11th in run blocking and 31st in pass blocking. And they correspond well with the eye-test, which says that our team is very effective rushing, and bottom-5 (maybe the worst) at pass protecting.

Run, run, and run some more. Even against an 8 man front I wouldn't give up on it.

 

[AgentDib]

Most decent metrics disagree with you, as do I.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but there is no such thing as a "decent" metric for the offensive line. All you linked were offensive efficiency statistics, and surely I don't need to tell you why comparing rushing efficiency with adjusted sack rate tells you something about the offense as a whole but should not be used for individual evaluation over game footage.

When it comes to run-blocking, our tackles aren't having to deal with speed rushers around the edge killing running plays, as we run it north-south. Speed rushers have straight up made life miserable for us these past few weeks and that is something that is neutralized by running the ball. Let's be frank, our team just can't deal with quick edge rushers in the passing game; that makes for a big gap between what they can do in the passing and running games.

For sure this is the narrative that a lot of fans believe, initially rooted in Carp's lack of agility and now reinforced by the above referenced "metrics." My argument was that this is making too much of the difference. Our running scheme depends on agile offensive linemen, and the people we are talking about (Sweezy, Bailey, Bowie) were prospects for us because we thought they had the agility to pair with their size and strength. Bleacher Report must have better writers these days, because they have a pretty good description of our outside zone here. You can't run block for this team without having athleticism.

 

[hawk45]

Dib, where would you rank our run blocking against the other teams in the league?

Where would you rank our ability to pass protect?

I agree we must have some athleticism to be able to run block, but I'm still interested in the answer to those two questions.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Most decent metrics disagree with you, as do I.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but there is no such thing as a "decent" metric for the offensive line. All you linked were offensive efficiency statistics, and surely I don't need to tell you why comparing rushing efficiency with adjusted sack rate tells you something about the offense as a whole but should not be used for individual evaluation over game footage.

No, those were OL-specific statistics.

Furthermore, I agree with you that watching the games in combination with statistical evaluation should tell you all you need to know about the strengths and weaknesses of our OL. That's why I would be interested for you to construct an actual series of supports to your argument that the gap isn't that large because what I'm seeing and what the stats are showing are lining up. You can point to whatever genesis for this stance that you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that the offensive line is keeping Marshawn Lynch productive (an average of 4.6 YPC since at least one of our starting OTs went out) while Russell Wilson has been hit and hurried significantly more often in that same time.

No offense meant, of course, I just strongly disagree with you and would love to see a more specific counter-argument out of you. I'm willing to consider a counter-argument.

 

[AgentDib]

I agree we must have some athleticism to be able to run block, but I'm still interested in the answer to those two questions.

I am very interested in those questions as well, as I am sure any Hawk fan is. Pure speculation on my part that the five in the title are pretty far towards the bottom in both areas. What I am mostly disagreeing with is the concept that we have a big strong slow angle blocking offensive line that struggles against speed rushers. I think it is fairer to say that we have an athletic zone blocking offensive line that struggled against certain speed rushers that were simply much better than we were. Bowie is a slightly undersized rookie who I believe played on the left side his entire college career. Should we be surprised if he struggles against elite defenders in all aspects of the game?

No, those were OL-specific statistics.

Let's look at the actual numbers and my point may be clearer. When it comes to run blocking, FO has ranked Seattle #11 in Adjusted Yards, #30 in Power Rank and #20 in Stuffed Rank. These are graded based on yardage outcomes of various scenarios. This is the best that FO can do in the circumstances, but these yardage outcomes are dependent on a dozen factors only one of which is the offensive line.

Adjusted Yards also depends on things like:
- The running back
- Full back blocking
- Tight end blocking
- Wide receiver blocking
- Wilson's decision making on read option plays
- Offensive play calling
- Defensive personnel / play calling
- Point differential / Time of possession
- Randomness

My point is that being #11 in "adjusted yards" is useful information at a high level and tells you exactly how efficient our running game has been; I would argue more so than YPC because the lower expected of a value of a run needs to be offset by a higher minimum value. It does not tell you how well our offensive line has run blocked, however. Perhaps they are the #1 blocking unit and Lynch has sucked it up to bring them down, or (more likely) they have been much poorer and buoyed by Lynch's YAC. Some of the runs have been Wilson scrambles as a result of our passing offense foibles; do we give the line credit for those or should they really be penalized instead? I would also point out the Power rank (3rd/4th and short) is where we are #30 overall and would appear to be the one that has the most to do with the OL rather than the RB.

My amateur take is that we are heavily supporting our patchwork offensive line in the running game. We ran out of two TE sets over 50% of the time last week, and if you add in the number of plays we ran with MRob it was probably close to 75%+ with 6-7 blockers on the line. Add to this that we have a running back who is very good, and a mobile QB who also rushes well, and I think our running success is due more to an entire team effort than it is to good run blocking out of our backup OL.

My question for the coaching staff is we have not seen the same amount of help given to the offensive line in the passing game. I'm sure all of us were confused when we saw our 5 guys on the line responsible for blocking 5 rams defenders without any help, especially on the mystifying empty backfield sets. I do think our coaching staff has basic common sense and as such they had a reason, so I would mostly be curious to find out what they know that I do not.

 

[MrCarey]

At least Pierre can hike the ball. That gives Russ a chance to run for his life at least.

Unger's snaps have been really poor.

I was gonna say, the game looked better with Unger OUT, really.

 

[C-Dub]

At least Pierre can hike the ball. That gives Russ a chance to run for his life at least.

Unger's snaps have been really poor.

I was gonna say, the game looked better with Unger OUT, really.

Much better in the run game from what I could tell. Not sure as a blocker.

 

[MrCarey]

At least Pierre can hike the ball. That gives Russ a chance to run for his life at least.

Unger's snaps have been really poor.

I was gonna say, the game looked better with Unger OUT, really.

Much better in the run game from what I could tell. Not sure as a blocker.

Yeah, I'm okay with that, though. That is our heart and soul as an offense. The run game working makes our pass game a million times better. If they are afraid of the beast (they should be), then Golden is going to be ridiculous. Kearse will be opened up, and Baldwin will obviously be the 3rd and long target that makes literally anything happen.

I'm ready for tomorrow.

 

[C-Dub]

At least Pierre can hike the ball. That gives Russ a chance to run for his life at least.

Unger's snaps have been really poor.

I was gonna say, the game looked better with Unger OUT, really.

Much better in the run game from what I could tell. Not sure as a blocker.

Yeah, I'm okay with that, though. That is our heart and soul as an offense. The run game working makes our pass game a million times better. If they are afraid of the beast (they should be), then Golden is going to be ridiculous. Kearse will be opened up, and Baldwin will obviously be the 3rd and long target that makes literally anything happen.

I'm ready for tomorrow.

Just wish Bevell would understand that logic.

Run the ball to open up the passing game. It's so simple when a team has a shitty d-line and it would really benefit that patchwork o-line that has a ginger guard and 7th round rookie playing tackles, a defensive tackle and fatass Carp playing guards, and a backup center.

 

[MrCarey]

Just wish Bevell would understand that logic.

Run the ball to open up the passing game. It's so simple when a team has a shitty d-line and it would really benefit that patchwork o-line that has a ginger guard and 7th round rookie playing tackles, a defensive tackle and fatass Carp playing guards, and a backup center.

Ugh, just reading Carp makes me want to throw up. I expect everyone else to suck, but **** that guy, man. Worthless. Also, yeah, I hope Bevell figures it out. 125 yards behind that line is not a joke. Unleash the Beast.

 

[C-Dub]

Just wish Bevell would understand that logic.

Run the ball to open up the passing game. It's so simple when a team has a shitty d-line and it would really benefit that patchwork o-line that has a ginger guard and 7th round rookie playing tackles, a defensive tackle and fatass Carp playing guards, and a backup center.

Ugh, just reading Carp makes me want to throw up. I expect everyone else to suck, but **** that guy, man. Worthless. Also, yeah, I hope Bevell figures it out. 125 yards behind that line is not a joke. Unleash the Beast.

Especially on the God damn 1 yard line!

:thirishdrinkers:

 

[MrCarey]

Just wish Bevell would understand that logic.

Run the ball to open up the passing game. It's so simple when a team has a shitty d-line and it would really benefit that patchwork o-line that has a ginger guard and 7th round rookie playing tackles, a defensive tackle and fatass Carp playing guards, and a backup center.

Ugh, just reading Carp makes me want to throw up. I expect everyone else to suck, but **** that guy, man. Worthless. Also, yeah, I hope Bevell figures it out. 125 yards behind that line is not a joke. Unleash the Beast.

Especially on the God damn 1 yard line!

:thirishdrinkers:

No way, that's total pass play territory! :sarcasm_off:

Haha, GO HAWKS! :thirishdrinkers: