Mariners Offseason Thread 2014-2015

[Uncle Si]

I'm getting all worked up over here on a difference in opinion and apologize for being a d--- (if i was, which i wasnt, but if i was, than i apologize)

bottom line is, whether you believe the ownership group is responsible for the team's mediocrity over the last decade or that they deserve a bit more credit than they get, the team could use better.

given that, the team today is standing in a very good position. I am anxious to see how the next few weeks go

 

[HawkFan72]

he didnt care about winning a world series, but helped put together a 116 win team? He was part of the reason that team was littered with All-Stars. He had just helped the city build a brand new ball park to win a 116 games in. (and host the all-star game littered with Mariners that same year)

Lou mismanaged that team in the playoffs (game 6 in NY the coup de grace, and seriously Lou, you won 116 games, have 8 all stars but need more?). but that one hitter (who was to be off the bench, not a starter by the way) did not keep the team that won 116 games from reaching the world series.

FFS... think about what youre saying. or even look back at the 1990s.

im actually defending Lincoln, who I think gets far more wrong than right, such is the ridiculousness of some of these statements.

You asked for an example of a time he said "no" when a coach or GM asked him for the resources to acquire a player. And I gave you one.

People around Lincoln have said on multiple occasions that he doesn't really care about winning a World Series if it's going to cut into his other endeavors. It's possible he has changed. The source I had no longer has access to that info. I hope he has changed, it would only mean better things for the M's.

 

[HawkFan72]

I'm getting all worked up over here on a difference in opinion and apologize for being a d--- (if i was, which i wasnt, but if i was, than i apologize)

bottom line is, whether you believe the ownership group is responsible for the team's mediocrity over the last decade or that they deserve a bit more credit than they get, the team could use better.

given that, the team today is standing in a very good position. I am anxious to see how the next few weeks go

No worries man, the M's have been a source of frustration for far too long and there is plenty of blame to go around. I certainly don't think it's all Lincoln's fault. I just think he is a big part of the problem.

You're not being a jerk, just stating your opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

I also hope the M's can make the right moves to continue what they built last year.

 

[Uncle Si]

he didnt care about winning a world series, but helped put together a 116 win team? He was part of the reason that team was littered with All-Stars. He had just helped the city build a brand new ball park to win a 116 games in. (and host the all-star game littered with Mariners that same year)

Lou mismanaged that team in the playoffs (game 6 in NY the coup de grace, and seriously Lou, you won 116 games, have 8 all stars but need more?). but that one hitter (who was to be off the bench, not a starter by the way) did not keep the team that won 116 games from reaching the world series.

FFS... think about what youre saying. or even look back at the 1990s.

im actually defending Lincoln, who I think gets far more wrong than right, such is the ridiculousness of some of these statements.

You asked for an example of a time he said "no" when a coach or GM asked him for the resources to acquire a player. And I gave you one.

People around Lincoln have said on multiple occasions that he doesn't really care about winning a World Series if it's going to cut into his other endeavors.

fair enough... although i think that example does not reflect an aloofness to winning, as he had just helped build a brand new stadium and put together the best regular season team in the history of the game. For me, i always took it as telling his manager he should be able to win with the amazing (and very expensive) team that was already given to him.

Again, while i'm not a Lincoln advocate, the M's ownership group gets belittled for things like the Pinella story without genuine context into everything they have given Seattle baseball. We point to Chone Figgins without Beltre or Sexson. We disregard the 90s. We disregard Safeco. We disregard 2001 (Ichiro... think of that) and all those deals that put that team together. We disregard keeping Felix (even the Yankees have given up) and now are disregarding Cano.

Just reflects a mixture of revisionism and hypocrisy based on assumptions that arent necessarily germane to the actual actions of the club or its CEO

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I get it, you want an owner like Paul Allen. I do too. But what we do have gets a lot more undeserved criticism than whats real. not caring about winning more than the bottom line after resigning Felix and signing Cano is the perfect statement on how you see things being done. just... well whatever.

But that's the thing, JUST resigning Felix and signing Cano isn't enough, especially if you haven't hit on most of your young guys.

Baseball is no different than any other sport, when you're in the window to compete, you have to go for broke before the window closes.........and even in the Gillick/Piniella era ownership wasn't willing to spend to put us over the top.

I don't like that fans are just content to be competitive, we should be demanding more. Seattle is no longer a small market, we have to stop thinking and spending like a small market team.

 

[Uncle Si]

I get it, you want an owner like Paul Allen. I do too. But what we do have gets a lot more undeserved criticism than whats real. not caring about winning more than the bottom line after resigning Felix and signing Cano is the perfect statement on how you see things being done. just... well whatever.

But that's the thing, JUST resigning Felix and signing Cano isn't enough, especially if you haven't hit on most of your young guys.

Baseball is no different than any other sport, when you're in the window to compete, you have to go for broke before the window closes.........and even in the Gillick/Piniella era ownership wasn't willing to spend to put us over the top.

I don't like that fans are just content to be competitive, we should be demanding more. Seattle is no longer a small market, we have to stop thinking and spending like a small market team.

resigning Felix, signing Cano, signing Kuma, and waiting for Seager, Miller, Zunino, etc.. this was the plan. It also involved Smoak (who was the top prospect at the time), Montero (#3) and Ackely (top 5). Baseball is different from lots of sports, it takes more time, it takes combinations of the right players. look at your World Series. the quick fix high spending teams arent getting there with regularity any more. they made runs at Hamilton, Fielder, Upton.. the intent isnt missing

Up until 2012, this team's payroll was in the top 10 for over a decade (in or abouts, year to year) We actually dropped to 19 WHILE signing Cano, and just finished a game out of the playoffs.

you can not like it ( and wish we got suckered into Fielder, Hamilton, Pujols, etc.), but your reasoning is flawed. Its not small market, nor is small thinking. Its planning. Jack Z has been trying to build a team around great young prospects. Thats his plan, not Lincolns. and while they didnt "hit" on Smoak or Montero, Ackelys been decent, Paxton, Walker, Miller, Zunino are coming good and Seager is an all star. The narrative is not nearly as desperate as whats given at times.

And again, stop with the nonsense that owners werent willing to spend in the Pinella era. Its just not true. Pinella's "cheapest" team was 1999 (at 18th, sandwiched between the rise of the 90s playoff teams and the peak of the 200s playoff teams). They built playoff teams in the 90s, then peaked with an unreal roster turnover and put together in 2001. while they're spending wasnt Yankees level, they fielded really good teams with really good players with a similar philosophy (using prospects like Johnson, A-Rod, Griffey mixed with vets like Edgar, Tino, Buhner) All the while saving baseball in Seattle and building a new stadium.

This team is perfectly poised at the moment. I'll be far less "content" with how positive 2013-14 was if we do not add to it.

again, you can not like Lincoln for a ton of reasons (Adam Jones happened). but I see alot of it as misguided. I feel like a lot of Ms fans want us to be the Yankees/Red Sox/Angels... instead we are more like the Cardinals, Giants, Braves, Blue Jays.. but we sure as hell arent the Padres

 

[Uncle Si]

anyways, all just matters of opinion.

Lets change direction. recent rumour is Upton (for what may be Walker).

anyone on board with this? What are you willing to give up for Upton (young, decent in the field, but on one year remaining)

or sign Cruz (older, career year, offers little in the field)

 

[Sgt. Largent]

anyways, all just matters of opinion.

Lets change direction. recent rumour is Upton (for what may be Walker).

anyone on board with this? What are you willing to give up for Upton (young, decent in the field, but on one year remaining)

or sign Cruz (older, career year, offers little in the field)

I like Cruz not only because we wouldn't have to give up anybody for him, but he doesn't strike out as much as Upton.

The rumors are the Braves want A LOT for Upton, so having to give up one of our best pitching prospects AND only getting him for a year (one year left on his contract) is not good for me.

 

[HawkFan72]

anyways, all just matters of opinion.

Lets change direction. recent rumour is Upton (for what may be Walker).

anyone on board with this? What are you willing to give up for Upton (young, decent in the field, but on one year remaining)

or sign Cruz (older, career year, offers little in the field)

We supposedly had Upton for Walker and Franklin a couple years ago, right? I was fine with that at the time, because Upton had a few years of control left.

I don't know if I would give up Walker for only one year of Upton now, but if we did something similar and gave up a different pitcher and Taylor I might be down.

I would love to get Upton, but would want an extension if we are giving up a player like Walker or Paxton.

I do not want Cruz on this team at all. It would be a typical Mariner's move to sign him. Seems like we always overpay for guys' career years and then they fall off a cliff.

Look at how badly Cruz was trending downward before last year. I think we would just get that player, not the one of last season. If he was going to cost $7-10 million a year, then that's fine. But he will probably go for at least $15m, which is too much.

 

[IndyHawk]

No to Upton here..I feel he is overated and what is he going to bring us?Another low .220 hitter?Cruz I'm on the fence with as I can't stand cheaters so if we get him..We might as well take ARoid off the Yanks hands..

 

[dumbrabbit]

If any trade includes Taijuan Walker, I would never consider it. Walker is the pitching future for Seattle. Don't give up defense for a little control of Upton.

 

[dumbrabbit]

I can't tell how thrilled, excited, and happy I am that Seager is around for his prime. 7 years, $100M, he's worth every penny. I LOVE IT.

You go Jack!

 

[Uncle Si]

I can't tell how thrilled, excited, and happy I am that Seager is around for his prime. 7 years, $100M, he's worth every penny. I LOVE IT.

You go Jack!

yes sir. very well done indeed.

 

[HawkFan72]

Very happy about the Seager deal. Finally have a good homegrown talent other than Felix who is sticking around!

 

[Blitzer88]

Nice to see them wrap up Kyle for a long time!

 

[IndyHawk]

No one is worth that but happy we get to keep the one guy we drafted and developed into a star..It can happen in Seattle!

 

[HawkFan72]

No one is worth that but happy we get to keep the one guy we drafted and developed into a star..It can happen in Seattle!

It really is sad how few stars the Mariners have developed and kept.

Felix and Edgar Martinez are pretty much the only ones. Seager has a chance to be another one if he keeps playing at this level.

Felix is the only one who was actually expected to be a star, too. Edgar and Seager weren't expected to be as good as they became. Overall, the Mariners have been horrible at drafting and developing talent to begin with...but then when they do they are horrible at keeping that talent.

Adam Jones would have been on that list. Sin Soo Choo would have been on that list. But nope.

Glad to see they finally got it right for once with Seager.

 

[IndyHawk]

You forgot the "kid"..But yeah we developed a lot that left by fa or trades..Hopefully that has changed..

 

[m0ng0]

Cano should be the only exception to the M's policy of overspending. He's worth every penny of it. And it paid off last year, and they have him for 9 more years. It's a bold move that will slowly change M's fans stance on it.

He doesn't spend a whole lot often, but when he does, he knows what he's buying.

You realize that Nelson Cruz was under PED scrutiny right? M's ownership didn't want a guy like him, so they stayed true to their player PED policy.

Regardless until Lincoln is gone this team will never be more then "but we almost got there" except by pure dumb luck.

good god :roll:

 

[dontbelikethat]

Just grabbed a M's jersey the other day. Ready for the season.