Lions/9ers

[Cyrus12]

And for getting laughed at by maelstrom and the other dude for saying he’s in the mvp conversation….he made a ton of plays in the second half to bail his team out. He did what he had to

Are you debating yourself??

 

[Threedee]

FIREBALL

 

[Ozzy]

Are you debating yourself??

It feels like it

 

[Ozzy]

Louis riddick sums this up for me @Maelstrom787

 

[Maelstrom787]

And for getting laughed at by maelstrom and the other dude for saying he’s in the mvp conversation….he made a ton of plays in the second half to bail his team out. He did what he had to

So, how about not getting into that debate, huh?

Also, I'm not laughing at you. I'm doing the exact same thing you are, which is disagreeing. You keep making these little comments afterward like you're being singled out. No clue what that's about.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Louis riddick sums this up for me @Maelstrom787

I disagree with Louis Riddick, then.

 

[Ozzy]

So, how about not getting into that debate, huh?

Also, I'm not laughing at you. I'm doing the exact same thing you are, which is disagreeing. You keep making these little comments afterward like you're being singled out. No clue what that's about.

Go back and read through the thread, it’s fairly obvious what I’m talking about. I did get singled out for daring to say what riddick says. I don’t care and it’s fun to banter so whatever but man sometimes you can be really condescending and then play the victim. Maybe it’s lost in the format and that’s not how you mean it. It’s hard to read intention to be fair

 

[Maelstrom787]

Go back and read through the thread, it’s fairly obvious what I’m talking about. I did get singled out for daring to say what riddick says. I don’t care and it’s fun to banter so whatever but man sometimes you can be really condescending and then play the victim. Maybe it’s lost in the format and that’s not how you mean it. It’s hard to read intention to be fair

I'm playing the victim? In what way?

I'm not the one claiming to be laughed at and vilified by someone disagreeing with me.

You used pressure rates to show their line is good? Really? As if play calling and execution don’t matter massively? Come on man lol

I missed this so I'll respond here. Yes, the rate of pressure allowed DOES matter massively. The stat you're hawking, PBWR, is literally subject to the same noise. PBWR IS PRESSURE RATE - with a modifier added that is for pressure allowed within 2.5 seconds.

 

[Ozzy]

I'm playing the victim? In what way?

I'm not the one claiming to be laughed at and vilified by someone disagreeing with me.


I missed this so I'll respond here. Yes, the rate of pressure allowed DOES matter massively. The stat you're hawking, PBWR, is literally subject to the same noise. PBWR IS PRESSURE RATE - with a modifier added that is for pressure allowed within 2.5 seconds.

I’ve looked at all the stats in totality and it’s flat out not good for the Niners. Are you arguing they have a good line then?

 

[HawkeyGoalie]

F

We've witnessed his in-game transformation from Brock Turdy to Brock Brady.

Seahawks made a HUGE mistake passing on him.

30 other teams also passed on drafting Purdy...

 

[Maelstrom787]

I’ve looked at all the stats in totality and it’s flat out not good for the Niners.

I've provided you the majority of every offensive line stat there is, and they grade as middling when aggregating all of them together and considering the amount of interference each metric is subjected to by offensive scheme.

Are you arguing they have a good line then?

No, I didn't say this. I've explicitly stated that they're middling.

For subjective graders, Sharp has them 17th. I'd wager PFF has them between 16th and 20th.

ESPN PBWR is 20th.

For slightly more objective measures (that can be interpreted differently), we can see that this doesn't manifest into higher than average rates of actual pressure faced, nor hurries, nor sacks. Quoted below.

If you look at raw pressures allowed, San Francisco is 5th and Seattle is 24th.

If you look as pressure percentage allowed, San Francisco is 14th and Seattle is 27th. San Francisco allows a pressure on almost 5% less of their snaps, which is about 20% less often than Seattle.

If you look as pass block win rate, San Francisco is 20th and Seattle is 25th.

If you look at pocket time which is an average of the time to either throw the ball OR until a pressure is recorded, San Francisco is tied for first at 2.7 and Seattle is bottom half of the league at 2.4.

If you look at raw hurries allowed, San Francisco is 7th best in the league. Seattle is the very worst at 32nd overall.

View attachment 64076

This doesn't translate into a terrible OL. It translates into a middling one that benefits from a great scheme. This tracks with their personnel surefire hall of fame left tackle, a very good guard in Aaron Banks, and their biggest detriment being solidly below average RT play. Regardless of whether or not the OL WAS actually terrible in subjective gradings, we can pretty conclusively state that the actual detriment the QB faces from it is more negligible than stated because he still isn't actually getting pressured according to the actual counts.

 

[Ozzy]

I've provided you the majority of every offensive line stat there is, and they grade as middling when aggregating all of them together and considering the amount of interference each metric is subjected to by offensive scheme.



No, I didn't say this. I've explicitly stated that they're middling.

For subjective graders, Sharp has them 17th. I'd wager PFF has them between 16th and 20th.

ESPN PBWR is 20th.

For slightly more objective measures (that can be interpreted differently), we can see that this doesn't manifest into higher than average rates of actual pressure faced, nor hurries, nor sacks. Quoted below.

This doesn't translate into a terrible OL. It translates into a middling one that benefits from a great scheme. This tracks with their personnel surefire hall of fame left tackle, a very good guard in Aaron Banks, and their biggest detriment being solidly below average RT play. Regardless of whether or not the OL WAS actually terrible in subjective gradings, we can pretty conclusively state that the actual detriment the QB faces from it is more negligible than stated because he still isn't actually getting pressured according to the actual counts.

Many aren’t you sharing the sites that have them much lower? I’ve done the same searches you’ve done and all your doing is looking for stuff that supports your goal posts that have moved. But I’m over it. I just think arguing Geno was great and then arguing Purdy is average at best is baffling. You think differently. It is what it is

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm tired of being misrepresented, so we're going point by point.

Many aren’t you sharing the sites that have them much lower?

Provide 'em. I'm open to it, and I've provided my supporting data to you.

I’ve done the same searches you’ve done and all your doing is looking for stuff that supports your goal posts that have moved.

This is a ridiculous accusation given that pressures, pressure percentage allowed, hurries, sack%, etc. are all mainstay, basic stats by which to judge an offensive line. For doing "all the same searches," you've provided a single metric from ESPN and refuse to elaborate further.

I am still waiting for the supposed litany of evidence implicating the 49ers offensive line to be provided, because at the most basic glance, the vast majority of data does NOT support them being "terrible."

The goal posts are not moving. My assertion is that they're a middling offensive line, and I've provided meat-and-potatoes mainstream statistics to support that viewpoint.

But I’m over it.

I was too, and you brought it BACK up after I had literally not replied again because you said that the conversation was over.

I just think arguing Geno was great-

I didn't say Geno was great overall this year. I've maintained he's a top-half quarterback who can have much of his regression attributed to a downturn in the rushing game, significant frequency of pressure faced, and compensating for the possible worst defense in football.

-and then arguing Purdy is average at best is baffling.

I've said he's top half, not top 10, to be clear.

It is what it is

Is it? Because if it is what it is, we can table this again if you don't start @'ing me in a few minutes to rehash this.

 

[Maelstrom787]

To get ahead of potential strawmen:

No, I did not say the 49ers offensive line is "good" or "great."
No, I did not say Purdy is "terrible."
No, I did not say Purdy is "below average."

 

[Ozzy]

Your intentions are easy to see dude. I’m honestly shocked you don’t see the nuance in your approach or the implications of what you say and when you say it. It’s easy to read between the lines and gather how you feel about Geno, Purdy, Pete whether you admit it or not.

Enjoy your week

 

[Maelstrom787]

Your intentions are easy to see dude. I’m honestly shocked you don’t see the nuance in your approach or the implications of what you say and when you say it. It’s easy to read between the lines and gather how you feel about Geno, Purdy, Pete whether you admit it or not.

Enjoy your week

Thank you for the just-vague-enough criticism of my mental aptitude that you've been complaining about everyone else doing to you. If you've got those websites with the smoking gun on the Niners OL, I'll be here.

Enjoy yours too.

 

[Ozzy]

Thank you for the just-vague-enough criticism of my mental aptitude that you've been complaining about everyone else doing to you. If you've got those websites with the smoking gun on the Niners OL, I'll be here.

Enjoy yours too.

I literally did what you did to prove a point.

 

[kidhawk]

Ben Johnson love affair over. MacDonald is the guy.

Defense still wins championships. Go get the guy who can transform this defense.

I’m going with the flow on the new hire HC but don’t think just because we get a HC that leans one way or the other that it precludes us from getting a coordinator that can teach our guys not to overrun plays and how to tackle. We have talent on both sides of the ball but defensively they lack discipline and technique.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I literally did what you did to prove a point.

I mean, I would disagree with that interpretation as every reply I've made has directly addressed the points of the posts I'm replying to, but I'm sorry if you feel like I'm simply implying that you're stupid and then trying to end the conversation, because that is not my intention and I cannot see a way in which that can be taken from my replies.

 

[Maelstrom787]

If we could get back to football discussion - seriously, for my own benefit, what sites and statistics am I missing on this 49ers OL and how do they (in the big picture) overrule both the raw numbers and percentages and the subjective grading services?

I love researching and learning anything about football.