SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
Yep. He didn't exactly have much to work with. And you can see he was getting better and better. I don't buy the Justin Fields sucks talk at all.
Justin Fields a Steeler!
- Thread starter Cyrus12
- Start date
RiverDog
Well-known member
They're the Bears. No other explanation is necessary.
SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
Good point 
SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
As a Bears fan, how are the fans out there about this trade? Just curious.
Poles had no real choice. It’s done. We’re all just rooting for Williams now. I am hopeful but nervous. I think I will revive my “Bears Den” thread again this season.
12AngryHawks
Well-known member
Hoping to redeem themselves for their screw-up in 2017, trading up 1 spot to take Mitch Trubisky and not Patrick Mahomes. So they're not about to miss the opportunity to take the QB people are delusionally claiming to be the next Mahomes.
SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
Yup, an all-time stupid decision. Trading up AND passing on Mahomes. Just wow.
Mahomes is a leader, the only person that Caleb cares about is himself. MASSIVE difference.
Mahomes is a leader, the only person that Caleb cares about is himself. MASSIVE difference.
Pace should been fired long before it happened. McCaskey is not a “football guy.” We are hoping that Warren will really take charge now.
SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
From the outside looking in, Fields looks like he has some real potential. Plus, Chicago went out and got more weapons............then they trade the guy. Wow
He would not have been traded, if the Bears did not have the #1 pick to draft Caleb Williams. It would have created a mess to keep both of them.
SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
Be careful what you wish for. I would be VERY nervous if the Hawks drafted Caleb me me me Williams.
Also, who's to say he doesn't do an Eli Manning, demanding that he doesn't play for Chicago? Shoot, maybe Chicago should just take Jayden Daniels.
I won't be surprised one bit if Daniels ends up being a better NFL QB.
Also, who's to say he doesn't do an Eli Manning, demanding that he doesn't play for Chicago? Shoot, maybe Chicago should just take Jayden Daniels.
I won't be surprised one bit if Daniels ends up being a better NFL QB.
Poles is betting his career on this, so I’m sure he’s even more nervous than Bears fans!
My son was just to the right of them in this gif - he was pretty young and they charged with him and gave him a box of their cereal - always makes me smile when it pops up
IndyHawk
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3 years and those numbers don't tell you he sucks?
I'd have never waited after year 2 with him.
SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
He absolutely was showing improvement. Then again, not our problem. Meh.
IndyHawk
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After 3 seasons I suppose a little improvement would happen but it's just
not good enough.
Be happy we didn't get that little bugger.
RiverDog
Well-known member
I know that stats aren't always a good measure of performance, but they can tell a story, so here's Justin Fields' line, the first number being 2023, the 2nd his career totals:
Completion percentage: 61.4, 60.3
W/L as a starter: 5-8, 10/28 (38%, 26%)
Passing yards per game: 197.1, 166.9
TD:INT: 16:9, 40:30
INT %: 2.4%, 3.1%
Sack %: 10.6%, 12.4%
PFF had Fields ranked #21 in overall performance or bottom 50% of ranked QB's, and it should be noted that some of the more notable QB's that were ranked lower than him included Kyler Murray and Deshawn Watson. They did rank Fields as #6 in rushing for QB's, but just #25 in passing. I couldn't find the previous seasons rankings.
Fields' time to throw was the slowest by far in the league. His pocket time, ie time from the snap to when he either passes or the pocket collapses, was the 2nd slowest in the league. Not surprisingly, Fields has consistently been one of the most sacked QB's in the league.
While it's true that stats are not the ultimate measure of player performance, we have to acknowledge that the quarterback position is the most quantifiable on the field, and just looking at the numbers/rankings, Fields was showing some improvement, but it was very modest, and I can understand why the Bears are moving on from him.
Teams don't often get a chance to pick the #1 overall, so they obviously felt that 3 years and 40 starts was long enough to evaluate a quarterback and that they couldn't afford to wait and see if Fields develops into a top 10 QB when they have the pick of the litter in what appears to be a strong QB class.
Completion percentage: 61.4, 60.3
W/L as a starter: 5-8, 10/28 (38%, 26%)
Passing yards per game: 197.1, 166.9
TD:INT: 16:9, 40:30
INT %: 2.4%, 3.1%
Sack %: 10.6%, 12.4%
PFF had Fields ranked #21 in overall performance or bottom 50% of ranked QB's, and it should be noted that some of the more notable QB's that were ranked lower than him included Kyler Murray and Deshawn Watson. They did rank Fields as #6 in rushing for QB's, but just #25 in passing. I couldn't find the previous seasons rankings.
Fields' time to throw was the slowest by far in the league. His pocket time, ie time from the snap to when he either passes or the pocket collapses, was the 2nd slowest in the league. Not surprisingly, Fields has consistently been one of the most sacked QB's in the league.
While it's true that stats are not the ultimate measure of player performance, we have to acknowledge that the quarterback position is the most quantifiable on the field, and just looking at the numbers/rankings, Fields was showing some improvement, but it was very modest, and I can understand why the Bears are moving on from him.
Teams don't often get a chance to pick the #1 overall, so they obviously felt that 3 years and 40 starts was long enough to evaluate a quarterback and that they couldn't afford to wait and see if Fields develops into a top 10 QB when they have the pick of the litter in what appears to be a strong QB class.
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BASF
Well-known member
Twenty-one is a high number. However, Howell's 3.4 interception percentage his first year starting was lower than Fields' 3.7 his first year starting and his 3.5 in year two of starting. The only thing Fields has advantage on is his legs.
Lagartixa
Well-known member
[Writing about Fields]
Critics may correctly point out that Howell got sacked a lot in 2024. More times than any other QB, but part of that is because he was asked to drop back to throw over 675 times in the season. Yes, I meant to write 675. Six hundred and seventy-five. It's not a typo. When you look at sack rates, Howell was sacked on 9.6% of his dropbacks in 2024 (65 times in 677 dropbacks). His career sack rate, adding in the one game he played in the 2022 season, is 9.7% (68 sacks out of 68+631=699 dropbacks).
To give you an idea of how terrible Howell has been at avoiding sacks, his 2023 sack rate was perceptibly worse than 35-year-old Russell Wilson's, but perceptibly less bad than 34-year-old Wilson's 2022 sack rate. It's not exactly a promising sign that Howell in the NFL so far has produced somewhere between the second-highest (2022) and fourth-highest (2023) sack rates of the career of a QB who has always been among the league "leaders" in taking sacks.
And y'know what? Howell's season-plus-a-game was also quite a bit less bad than Fields's least-bad season in sack rate. In three seasons as a starter, Fields's sack rates have been 11.8%, 14.7% (yikes), and 10.6%.
Y'know, I thought that too, until I decided to go look up how Fields and Howell did as rushers in 2023.
Fields has run a lot, but how good has he been as a runner? By rushing DYAR (DYAR is Aaron Schatz's opponent-adjusted measure of actual on-the-field value produced), Fields was sixth in the league in 2023, with 99 DYAR on 117 attempts. Howell, meanwhile, was seventh in the league in QB rushing DYAR in 2023, with 78 DYAR on 44 rushing attempts. Since he produced 79% (about 4/5) as much rushing value as Fields in a little over a third as many rushing attempts, we might infer that Howell's per-snap productivity on rushing attempts was a good deal higher than Fields's, and the DVOA numbers confirm that: Howell as a rusher produced a 23.2% DVOA in 2023, good for second in the league among QBs with at least 15 rushing attempts, behind only Mahomes at an outrageously good 44.4%. Fields? He was 15th in the league in rushing DVOA among QBs with at least 15 rushing attempts in 2023, at 4.3%. So Fields's one supposed superior point, his ability running with the ball, is actually not all that good when judged in terms of per-snap productivity. Fields wasn't hurting his team with his rushing in 2023, but he also wasn't helping the team as much as his gaudy-for-a-QB total-rushing-yardage numbers suggest.
Fields was pretty damn good in yards per attempt in 2022, but also fumbled 16 times (in addition to throwing 11 interceptions). He ended up fourth in rushing DVOA and fourth in rushing DYAR among QBs with 15 or more rushing attempts in 2022. So his best season running was... pretty good. But not enough to make him anything more than an utterly awful QB overall.
So yeah, Howell's flawed, but I think Fields appears to be more so, and the Seahawks appear to have acquired the least-proven-a-bust of those two players.
Critics may correctly point out that Howell got sacked a lot in 2024. More times than any other QB, but part of that is because he was asked to drop back to throw over 675 times in the season. Yes, I meant to write 675. Six hundred and seventy-five. It's not a typo. When you look at sack rates, Howell was sacked on 9.6% of his dropbacks in 2024 (65 times in 677 dropbacks). His career sack rate, adding in the one game he played in the 2022 season, is 9.7% (68 sacks out of 68+631=699 dropbacks).
To give you an idea of how terrible Howell has been at avoiding sacks, his 2023 sack rate was perceptibly worse than 35-year-old Russell Wilson's, but perceptibly less bad than 34-year-old Wilson's 2022 sack rate. It's not exactly a promising sign that Howell in the NFL so far has produced somewhere between the second-highest (2022) and fourth-highest (2023) sack rates of the career of a QB who has always been among the league "leaders" in taking sacks.
And y'know what? Howell's season-plus-a-game was also quite a bit less bad than Fields's least-bad season in sack rate. In three seasons as a starter, Fields's sack rates have been 11.8%, 14.7% (yikes), and 10.6%.
Y'know, I thought that too, until I decided to go look up how Fields and Howell did as rushers in 2023.
Fields has run a lot, but how good has he been as a runner? By rushing DYAR (DYAR is Aaron Schatz's opponent-adjusted measure of actual on-the-field value produced), Fields was sixth in the league in 2023, with 99 DYAR on 117 attempts. Howell, meanwhile, was seventh in the league in QB rushing DYAR in 2023, with 78 DYAR on 44 rushing attempts. Since he produced 79% (about 4/5) as much rushing value as Fields in a little over a third as many rushing attempts, we might infer that Howell's per-snap productivity on rushing attempts was a good deal higher than Fields's, and the DVOA numbers confirm that: Howell as a rusher produced a 23.2% DVOA in 2023, good for second in the league among QBs with at least 15 rushing attempts, behind only Mahomes at an outrageously good 44.4%. Fields? He was 15th in the league in rushing DVOA among QBs with at least 15 rushing attempts in 2023, at 4.3%. So Fields's one supposed superior point, his ability running with the ball, is actually not all that good when judged in terms of per-snap productivity. Fields wasn't hurting his team with his rushing in 2023, but he also wasn't helping the team as much as his gaudy-for-a-QB total-rushing-yardage numbers suggest.
Fields was pretty damn good in yards per attempt in 2022, but also fumbled 16 times (in addition to throwing 11 interceptions). He ended up fourth in rushing DVOA and fourth in rushing DYAR among QBs with 15 or more rushing attempts in 2022. So his best season running was... pretty good. But not enough to make him anything more than an utterly awful QB overall.
So yeah, Howell's flawed, but I think Fields appears to be more so, and the Seahawks appear to have acquired the least-proven-a-bust of those two players.
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