Is Carolina the new San Francisco

[Polaris]

Now you are quibbling and not very well at that. He SAID we hadn't allowed a 100yard rusher since last year and that's absolutely true. I also point out that (esp for Carolina) 135 yards on the ground is actually pretty poor. It was Cam's late game passing heroics that won the game earlier this year, not Carolina's run game, so his basic point is valid. Teams simply don't run very well at all against Seattle's defense.

Edit: Actually it does matter if one person does it or multiple ones. 30 yards of that 135 Carolina got in Seattle was from Cam and most of those weren't designed runs. I am not saying that Carolina won't crack the 100yard rush barrier, but that doesn't constituted a 'successful' running game. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Carolina fail to maintain that streak either. Minny's running game is better than Carolina's (sorry but it is, Peterson is that good) and Seattle completely stuffed Peterson not once but twice....and that was in December-January, not October.

Right but he was responding to a guy who SAID that we'd had 20+games straight with over 100 yards rushing. He changed the original argument which is not how you're supposed to debate stuff. I just brought the conversation back to the original premise.
Also Peterson may individually be better than Jonathan Stewart but Stewart is no slouch. And Stewart has something that AP didn't have and that's Cam. When you have to defend the read option with Cam/Stewart, I'd argue that it's much tougher to do that than to stop one man in AP.

You do understand that the first time you faced us that Seattle didn't have Wagner playing MLB right? Do you think that might make a little bit of difference in our ability to defend the read option? Also given that our first team offenses and defenses do practice against each other (not true for most NFL teams), do you think that our defense hasn't figured out ways to counter the read option given that they PRACTICE AGAINST one of the best read option QBs in the game?

Just sayin'

 

[MrHoenhiem]

There's definitely a lot of panther fans that are not like what you describe. Especially the bandwagon comment, a good number of posters on the huddle have been on the website since I joined at the beginning of the 2010 season and had been there before I got there.

Personally I've never disrespected the Seahawks because it's plain stupid to do so, especially when the panthers have lost their last 2 divisional round playoff games in a row and could stand to lose 3 in a row if things don't work out in this game. Panthers will lose a lot of respect and credit if the team loses no one will think they're win streak is valid and will largely be remembered as some sort of fluke as it didn't translate to anything different happening playoff wise (exact same outcome with a loss to seattle in the divisional round).

Panthers have had a great season, I think panther fans can bragg about the regular season. But in Cam Newton's tenure thus far playoff performance has been sub par by far. Personally I'm not talking any junk unless we win this game then that demonstrates at least progress from the last 2 years of playoff losses in the same round.

 

[Polaris]

A sensible Panther fan! Welcome! (I was wondering if they all went into hiding.) I will say this: The Panthers have the opportunity to prove that they are "for real" and really as as good as their record and how they want to be.

Naturally as a Seattle fan I will be rooting hard against that, but that's the nature of the game (and fandom)

 

[carolinablue]

Now you are quibbling and not very well at that. He SAID we hadn't allowed a 100yard rusher since last year and that's absolutely true. I also point out that (esp for Carolina) 135 yards on the ground is actually pretty poor. It was Cam's late game passing heroics that won the game earlier this year, not Carolina's run game, so his basic point is valid. Teams simply don't run very well at all against Seattle's defense.

Edit: Actually it does matter if one person does it or multiple ones. 30 yards of that 135 Carolina got in Seattle was from Cam and most of those weren't designed runs. I am not saying that Carolina won't crack the 100yard rush barrier, but that doesn't constituted a 'successful' running game. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Carolina fail to maintain that streak either. Minny's running game is better than Carolina's (sorry but it is, Peterson is that good) and Seattle completely stuffed Peterson not once but twice....and that was in December-January, not October.

Right but he was responding to a guy who SAID that we'd had 20+games straight with over 100 yards rushing. He changed the original argument which is not how you're supposed to debate stuff. I just brought the conversation back to the original premise.
Also Peterson may individually be better than Jonathan Stewart but Stewart is no slouch. And Stewart has something that AP didn't have and that's Cam. When you have to defend the read option with Cam/Stewart, I'd argue that it's much tougher to do that than to stop one man in AP.

You do understand that the first time you faced us that Seattle didn't have Wagner playing MLB right? Do you think that might make a little bit of difference in our ability to defend the read option? Also given that our first team offenses and defenses do practice against each other (not true for most NFL teams), do you think that our defense hasn't figured out ways to counter the read option given that they PRACTICE AGAINST one of the best read option QBs in the game?

Just sayin'

Wagner will help but honestly with our offense he's not the one that matters most when defending the read option. It's the defensive ends, outside linebackers and sometimes safeties that are having to make the tackle. And your offense doesn't have the amount of read option plays that we run at least from what I've seen.

 

[Polaris]

Now you are quibbling and not very well at that. He SAID we hadn't allowed a 100yard rusher since last year and that's absolutely true. I also point out that (esp for Carolina) 135 yards on the ground is actually pretty poor. It was Cam's late game passing heroics that won the game earlier this year, not Carolina's run game, so his basic point is valid. Teams simply don't run very well at all against Seattle's defense.

Edit: Actually it does matter if one person does it or multiple ones. 30 yards of that 135 Carolina got in Seattle was from Cam and most of those weren't designed runs. I am not saying that Carolina won't crack the 100yard rush barrier, but that doesn't constituted a 'successful' running game. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Carolina fail to maintain that streak either. Minny's running game is better than Carolina's (sorry but it is, Peterson is that good) and Seattle completely stuffed Peterson not once but twice....and that was in December-January, not October.

Right but he was responding to a guy who SAID that we'd had 20+games straight with over 100 yards rushing. He changed the original argument which is not how you're supposed to debate stuff. I just brought the conversation back to the original premise.
Also Peterson may individually be better than Jonathan Stewart but Stewart is no slouch. And Stewart has something that AP didn't have and that's Cam. When you have to defend the read option with Cam/Stewart, I'd argue that it's much tougher to do that than to stop one man in AP.

You do understand that the first time you faced us that Seattle didn't have Wagner playing MLB right? Do you think that might make a little bit of difference in our ability to defend the read option? Also given that our first team offenses and defenses do practice against each other (not true for most NFL teams), do you think that our defense hasn't figured out ways to counter the read option given that they PRACTICE AGAINST one of the best read option QBs in the game?

Just sayin'

Wagner will help but honestly with our offense he's not the one that matters most when defending the read option. It's the defensive ends, outside linebackers and sometimes safeties that are having to make the tackle. And your offense doesn't have the amount of read option plays that we run at least from what I've seen.

We've played the Panthers with Cam and your read options play five times now and we've won four of them (and three of the four wins were at your place). Do you really think our defense can't handle Carolina's read option? Really?

 

[razor150]

If there is a rivalry it is one sided all on their end. We've ended their season in the playoffs 3 different times, and they have never done the same to us. This year was the first time they have beaten us in probably a decade. If they beat us Sunday, then we can talk about a rivalry.

 

[carolinablue]

We've played the Panthers with Cam and your read options play five times now and we've won four of them (and three of the four wins were at your place). Do you really think our defense can't handle Carolina's read option? Really?

Handle how? As in shutting it down to less than 100 yards rushing? No I don't think Seattle will be able to do that. But I really don't think that's going to be the deciding factor in this game. I think the deciding factor will be how well we handle Russell Wilson in the passing game and how well you handle Cam in the passing game. Cam didn't play all that well last game until the 4th quarter and he can't afford to come out this time the same way. We were fortunate that Cam was able to take advantage of Seattle's mistake on that Olsen pass. The question for Cam will be can he not make bad decisions? I think if the turnover margin is equal or better for us then we win.

 

[carolinablue]

If there is a rivalry it is one sided all on their end. We've ended their season in the playoffs 3 different times, and they have never done the same to us. This year was the first time they have beaten us in probably a decade. If they beat us Sunday, then we can talk about a rivalry.

I think it was two times. Last year and like 2005 or something like that. Don't remember playing your team in the playoffs other than that.

 

[MrHoenhiem]

If there is a rivalry it is one sided all on their end. We've ended their season in the playoffs 3 different times, and they have never done the same to us. This year was the first time they have beaten us in probably a decade. If they beat us Sunday, then we can talk about a rivalry.

Agreed, from a panthers fan.

Nature of the playoffs is regular season simply doesn't matter anymore. You talk all the junk you want to but if you can't perform where it matters the most and lose 3 strait playoff games in the same round you are the definition of a pretender.

 

[carolinablue]

If there is a rivalry it is one sided all on their end. We've ended their season in the playoffs 3 different times, and they have never done the same to us. This year was the first time they have beaten us in probably a decade. If they beat us Sunday, then we can talk about a rivalry.

Agreed, from a panthers fan.

Nature of the playoffs is regular season simply doesn't matter anymore. You talk all the junk you want to but if you can't perform where it matters the most and lose 3 strait playoff games in the same round you are the definition of a pretender.

Yep. If the Panthers can't get it done this year when they are the better team (IMO) then you start looking a little bad. Last year I didn't really expect to win against the Seahawks, this year is totally different. I expect to win and a loss here would be just bad. Not to take anything away from the Seahawks because I do think they're a really good football team. I think they are better than Arizona (regardless of how some of the Cards fan's want to spin that last game).

 

[Polaris]

If there is a rivalry it is one sided all on their end. We've ended their season in the playoffs 3 different times, and they have never done the same to us. This year was the first time they have beaten us in probably a decade. If they beat us Sunday, then we can talk about a rivalry.

Agreed, from a panthers fan.

Nature of the playoffs is regular season simply doesn't matter anymore. You talk all the junk you want to but if you can't perform where it matters the most and lose 3 strait playoff games in the same round you are the definition of a pretender.

Yep. If the Panthers can't get it done this year when they are the better team (IMO) then you start looking a little bad. Last year I didn't really expect to win against the Seahawks, this year is totally different. I expect to win and a loss here would be just bad. Not to take anything away from the Seahawks because I do think they're a really good football team. I think they are better than Arizona (regardless of how some of the Cards fan's want to spin that last game).

I dispute that the Panthers are the better team (and so does DVOA). I agree they have the better record and thus seed, but better team? At best for the Panthers that is to be determined.

 

[Polaris]

We've played the Panthers with Cam and your read options play five times now and we've won four of them (and three of the four wins were at your place). Do you really think our defense can't handle Carolina's read option? Really?

Handle how? As in shutting it down to less than 100 yards rushing? No I don't think Seattle will be able to do that. But I really don't think that's going to be the deciding factor in this game. I think the deciding factor will be how well we handle Russell Wilson in the passing game and how well you handle Cam in the passing game. Cam didn't play all that well last game until the 4th quarter and he can't afford to come out this time the same way. We were fortunate that Cam was able to take advantage of Seattle's mistake on that Olsen pass. The question for Cam will be can he not make bad decisions? I think if the turnover margin is equal or better for us then we win.

I don't. Seattle has a better offense and Wilson by the numbers is simply a better QB than Newton. Defensively it's closer, but still give Seattle the edge there especially with the injuries to Carolina's secondary. The same basic teams have faced each other a lot the past 2-3 years or so, and Seattle has won all but one of them. Admittedly the games have been hard fought and close, but I think Seattle has the edge.

 

[Hawkpower]

If there is a rivalry it is one sided all on their end. We've ended their season in the playoffs 3 different times, and they have never done the same to us. This year was the first time they have beaten us in probably a decade. If they beat us Sunday, then we can talk about a rivalry.

Agreed, from a panthers fan.

Nature of the playoffs is regular season simply doesn't matter anymore. You talk all the junk you want to but if you can't perform where it matters the most and lose 3 strait playoff games in the same round you are the definition of a pretender.

Yep. If the Panthers can't get it done this year when they are the better team (IMO) then you start looking a little bad. Last year I didn't really expect to win against the Seahawks, this year is totally different. I expect to win and a loss here would be just bad. Not to take anything away from the Seahawks because I do think they're a really good football team. I think they are better than Arizona (regardless of how some of the Cards fan's want to spin that last game).

Yikes, that's a tough perspective. You guys really have bought in down there huh?

Losing to the two time defending champs, a team that happens to also be the most talented and battle tested team in the NFC is no shame. Carolina has a solid team, you just got a bad draw unfortunately.

You will be in the mix next year regardless. For as big of douche as Cam is, he is very talented.

 

[carolinablue]

If there is a rivalry it is one sided all on their end. We've ended their season in the playoffs 3 different times, and they have never done the same to us. This year was the first time they have beaten us in probably a decade. If they beat us Sunday, then we can talk about a rivalry.

Agreed, from a panthers fan.

Nature of the playoffs is regular season simply doesn't matter anymore. You talk all the junk you want to but if you can't perform where it matters the most and lose 3 strait playoff games in the same round you are the definition of a pretender.

Yep. If the Panthers can't get it done this year when they are the better team (IMO) then you start looking a little bad. Last year I didn't really expect to win against the Seahawks, this year is totally different. I expect to win and a loss here would be just bad. Not to take anything away from the Seahawks because I do think they're a really good football team. I think they are better than Arizona (regardless of how some of the Cards fan's want to spin that last game).

I dispute that the Panthers are the better team (and so does DVOA). I agree they have the better record and thus seed, but better team? At best for the Panthers that is to be determined.

I would expect you to dispute that. This is exactly why I wanted the Seahawks to beat Minnesota. I know how our team is viewed around the league. Seattle has been the NFC's best for a couple year's now so to beat them twice in one year will erase some of the doubts hanging around this team. If we had to play Minnesota this week it wouldn't mean a whole lot because frankly Minnesota just isn't as good as the Seahawks anyway. Bridgewater is clearly a couple notches below Cam and Wilson.
Plus if we beat the Seahawks again I think the players will have more confidence than if they just beat the Vikings. Would bode well for a game against Arizona.

 

[carolinablue]

Yikes, that's a tough perspective. You guys really have bought in down there huh?

Losing to the two time defending champs, a team that happens to also be the most talented and battle tested team in the NFC is no shame. Carolina has a solid team, you just got a bad draw unfortunately.

You will be in the mix next year regardless. For as big of douche as Cam is, he is very talented.

I wouldn't be ashamed if we lost to the Seahawks. I'd be severely disappointed though. I'd still be proud of the 3 division titles in a row. I'd still be proud of how this offense came together after losing K. Benjamen before the season started to lead the league in scoring. But as much as I have said how much I LOVED going 15-1 this year, that isn't the goal. It's window dressing in the end.

 

[Hawkpower]

Haha you wanted Seattle over Minnesota? LOL, I thought the object was to MAKE it to the Super Bowl

Hey, have to admire your spirit, even if it is just a bit delusional. Beat the best to be the best.

Admirable at the very least.

 

[carolinablue]

Haha you wanted Seattle over Minnesota? LOL, I thought the object was to MAKE it to the Super Bowl

Hey, have to admire your spirit, even if it is just a bit delusional. Beat the best to be the best.

Admirable at the very least.

You've seen (on this board as well) how people have criticized our season schedule. I'd like to play (and beat) Seattle...then Arizona, and then New England.

As a fan, if you were in my shoes...what could be better than that dream scenario?

 

[chris98251]

Haha you wanted Seattle over Minnesota? LOL, I thought the object was to MAKE it to the Super Bowl

Hey, have to admire your spirit, even if it is just a bit delusional. Beat the best to be the best.

Admirable at the very least.

You've seen (on this board as well) how people have criticized our season schedule. I'd like to play (and beat) Seattle...then Arizona, and then New England.

As a fan, if you were in my shoes...what could be better than that dream scenario?

Waking up to breakfast........................... served by your Cheerleaders.

 

[MrHoenhiem]

I think trying to argue who is the better team when both have gone through some major changes up to this game since the last game, will only land fans from both sides to keep arguing in circles forever.

This game is the test. Playoff games are the ultimate benchmark. If Panthers beat Seahawks this coming game we obviously would have swept you guys this season and probably only then can Panthers say for sure they are the better team. On the other side of the coin, Seahawks if you guys win the obviously there's a strong argument there that the reg season game was more of an aberration and are better at least when the bright lights shine than the panthers.

I like the idea of leaving bragging rights for the playoff victor. Although personally I wont be the one saying the seahawks are garbage if the panthers win . Just unclassy to do that against a team that went to last 2 superbowls won 1 and should have won 2 in a row if not for very strange playcall.

 

[Hawkpower]

Haha you wanted Seattle over Minnesota? LOL, I thought the object was to MAKE it to the Super Bowl

Hey, have to admire your spirit, even if it is just a bit delusional. Beat the best to be the best.

Admirable at the very least.

You've seen (on this board as well) how people have criticized our season schedule. I'd like to play (and beat) Seattle...then Arizona, and then New England.

As a fan, if you were in my shoes...what could be better than that dream scenario?

No I hear you. Thats a cool scenario.

I just think you should worry about GETTING there first and foremost....and pulling for Seattle as an opponent over MINNESOTA is a strange wish if that is your ultimate goal.

I understand your point though.