If Belichick gets fired before Pete . . .

[knownone]

Your still actually defending Pete and see better things coming?

Did you read what I wrote? I compared Bill and Pete to explain why one was on the hot seat and the other was not. Where's the defense? Where's the prognosticating?

 

[renofox]

Interesting. So, some people think moving on from a potential HoF QB does not constitute the start of a rebuild.

I can understand why some may view it that way, but to me a rebuild is tearing it to the foundations and re-building it up again.

Any structure (organization) is only as strong as the foundation. When you build without a strong foundation, you're doing it wrong.

p.s. What PC did was change the doors and windows and put a new roof on. Slapped on some shitty paint and thought it would be good to go. Also took out a huge mortgage and overpaid for everything.

So really? I'd call it a shitty remodel.

 

[Rat]

Belichick is an excellent coach still. It's like he got bored and decided to see how lousy of a team he can still win with. Apparently, it's somewhere between last year and this year.

 

[strohmin]

He moved on from his franchise QB. By most definitions, that's a rebuild. But alright.

Ok I agree, last year felt like a rebuild but this offseason felt like Pete really thought we were going to go far in the post season with the moves he made and it looks to have failed so miserably that we might have to rebuild again this offseason.

 

[fenderbender123]

Let's trade Pete for Bill.

 

[LastRideOut]

As bad as the taste in your mouth may be, it is nothing like the misery the Patriots are in currently.

Oh, poor Patriot fans, Patriots suck now after SIX super bowls with a single coach/QB combo.

They'll be fine. I'd love to be in their shoes right now, six SBs during the modern era. I mean, c'mon, they don't really deserve any sympathy.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Oh, poor Patriot fans, Patriots suck now after SIX super bowls with a single coach/QB combo.

They'll be fine. I'd love to be in their shoes right now, six SBs during the modern era. I mean, c'mon, they don't really deserve any sympathy.

They don't deserve sympathy, hell nah. I'm just saying that the past stretch for them in terms of results and, more importantly, the  insane decisions that have them as a total bottom-feeder are far worse than what we've been enduring under Pete.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Did you read what I wrote? I compared Bill and Pete to explain why one was on the hot seat and the other was not. Where's the defense? Where's the prognosticating?

Mentioning the playoffs and how its early in the rebuild (which its not even a rebuild).

My bad. I took it the wrong way. I apologize.

 

[Fade]

Bill is feeling the effects of not having a stud QB and he has no answers for it. Pete is also feeling those effects now.

The crazy thing is, losing Josh McDaniels as his OC unraveled it.

Mac Jones made the pro-bowl his rookie year. Then Joshy left, Bill flubbed the OC hire, and down went the offense.

Bill lost his top corner and pass rusher early in the season, but yet has his defense performing at a 10th-12th level.

Bill is a bad GM to boot, and is why NE wants him out.

If a team can get Bill as the coach only with an established QB, it'd be worth taking a shot.

The Chargers would be perfect for him. But Bill probably wants to stay on the east coast. Everyone thinks he will end up in WAS.

 

[knownone]

Mentioning the playoffs and how its early in the rebuild (which its not even a rebuild).

My bad. I took it the wrong way. I apologize.

Okay. But let's clarify any semantic confusion. Did your expectations for the team remain unchanged after trading Wilson? Because last offseason, you said, "Get rid of the top 5 QB, but keep the 70 year old fossil to rebuild" (1). I'm just curious about what has changed since then to alter your opinion of the situation.

Personally, my expectations for Pete haven't changed; I don't think rebuilding in this sense is an excuse for failure. Instead, I'm using "rebuild" because I have no idea how else to concisely express the concept of moving on from Brady and Russ.

1: www.seahawks.net/threads/its-happened-wilson-traded.178760/page-4#post-2613815 - bold used for emphasis

 

[Ozzy]

Okay. But let's clarify any semantic confusion. Did your expectations for the team remain unchanged after trading Wilson? Because last offseason, you said, "Get rid of the top 5 QB, but keep the 70 year old fossil to rebuild" (1). I'm just curious about what has changed since then to alter your opinion of the situation.

Personally, my expectations for Pete haven't changed; I don't think rebuilding in this sense is an excuse for failure. Instead, I'm using "rebuild" because I have no idea how else to concisely express the concept of moving on from Brady and Russ.

1: www.seahawks.net/threads/its-happened-wilson-traded.178760/page-4#post-2613815 - bold used for emphasis

Well I’d argue some of their moves since the date of that post would change opinion. They’ve made numerous moves that lean towards win now and mortgaged their future which you don’t do in a rebuild.

 

[knownone]

Well I’d argue some of their moves since the date of that post would change opinion. They’ve made numerous moves that lean towards win now and mortgaged their future which you don’t do in a rebuild.

Fair argument, but not at all relevant to my initial comment. I used moving on from a franchise QB as a reference point. In other words, Brady leaving the Patriots four years ago was the moment the Patriots started rebuilding. Obviously (maybe?), that doesn't mean they've been rebuilding in perpetuity since that point. If anything, they've failed in their rebuild.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Okay. But let's clarify any semantic confusion. Did your expectations for the team remain unchanged after trading Wilson? Because last offseason, you said, "Get rid of the top 5 QB, but keep the 70 year old fossil to rebuild" (1). I'm just curious about what has changed since then to alter your opinion of the situation.

Personally, my expectations for Pete haven't changed; I don't think rebuilding in this sense is an excuse for failure. Instead, I'm using "rebuild" because I have no idea how else to concisely express the concept of moving on from Brady and Russ.

1: www.seahawks.net/threads/its-happened-wilson-traded.178760/page-4#post-2613815 - bold used for emphasis

My expectations for the team has been pretty nonexistent for 5 or 6 years now so no they haven't changed since Russ was sent packing. As for the rebuild comment, I thought for sure they would at least try to draft a QBOTF but they insisted on riding with two middle of the road QBs. That's why it isn't a rebuild. Carroll thinks he can win with those two shmucks. Without a QBOTF it will never be a rebuild.

Also, if you read my comment you'll notice I wasn't happy about them getting rid of Wilson and I was also elaborating that I suspected a rebuild, but that's not what happened.

Here's the entire quote- "This organization is just insufferable. Get rid of the top 5 QB, but keep the 70 year old fossil to rebuild. The FO will screw up any decent draft picks so get used to being cellar dwellers for the next 10 years."

 

[pittpnthrs]

Fair argument, but not at all relevant to my initial comment. I used moving on from a franchise QB as a reference point. In other words, Brady leaving the Patriots four years ago was the moment the Patriots started rebuilding. Obviously (maybe?), that doesn't mean they've been rebuilding in perpetuity since that point. If anything, they've failed in their rebuild.

The Patriots drafted a QBOTF though even if he hasen't worked out. Hell, they drafted two of them.

 

[Maelstrom787]

"Rebuilding"? Rebuilding what? "Oh, but went to the playoff and promptly lost to any team with a pulse for 8 years" AND? Some here want either a Super Bowl Contender OR a team BUILDING a Super Bowl contender. Many of us would happily suffer through a couple Losing season if at the end we had a decent coach, a franchise QB and some actual HOPE of getting back to the Super Bowl. Even the biggest sunshine pumpers here do not pretend we have had a legitimate Super Bowl contender in years. But hey some parents are happy if their kids get Cs and some want their kids to get As. I refuse to live in the blissful world of little or no expectations or accountability but several here are. They love Pete Carroll MORE than the Seahawks and will make every failure the failure of every body else BUT Pete Carroll. Basically just versions of that idiot Russell Wilson fan that left for the Broncos board.

Man who famously shits on every action the team takes, good or bad, as well as shits on those who root for the team anyway in their current state, says he is the true fan and everyone else is essentially an irrational cultust.

Come on, man.

Also, to be fair, 2019 was pretty decent. Didn't quite have all of the horses they needed on D, and too many RBs got injured, but they did still get quite close to the Championship Game.

Those nitpicks aside, I gotta point out that this is a cynical view that paints entirely too many people as nefarious simpletons, simply because they disagree with you. No one is rooting for Pete Carroll over the Seahawks. They're just rooting for the team with a different philosophy than you are, because yours is insanely depressing and ignores the simple fact that teams go on runs every year. Unexpected ones, even.

I'd hate to live life thinking that everyone else who disagrees with me is a complete mouthbreather like the Donkos fan you're referring to. That's gotta be the most lonely, depressive mindset out there.

Managing disappointment against the reasonable hope that things can change isn't insanity. It's reason. The fanbase is angry right now, and that's just part of life when the team is losing. Doesn't mean you have to launch a crusade against an obvious minority who, for the most part, are just as reasonable or unreasonable as those who desire change.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The Patriots drafted a QBOTF though even if he hasen't worked out. Hell, they drafted two of them.

But then they ruined him because they didn't have the infrastructure to support him.

If anything, doesn't this argument explicitly work  against drafting QBOTFs simply to say you drafted one?

Also, does Zappe really count? I don't think we can consider arm-limited fourth rounders as real QBOTF's. Seems like more of a backup QBOTF pick.

 

[Ozzy]

But then they ruined him because they didn't have the infrastructure to support him.

If anything, doesn't this argument explicitly work  against drafting QBOTFs simply to say you drafted one?

Also, does Zappe really count? I don't think we can consider arm-limited fourth rounders as real QBOTF's. Seems like more of a backup QBOTF pick.

Well NE screwed up so badly with Jones that’s it’s unlikely to be that bad here if we drafted one. Most teams at least make reasonable moves to help whoever is picked. I would assume JS is smart enough to use that as one of many pieces to help him succeed. I think Bill B just got too arrogant and could make anything work.

 

[pittpnthrs]

But then they ruined him because they didn't have the infrastructure to support him.

If anything, doesn't this argument explicitly work  against drafting QBOTFs simply to say you drafted one?

Also, does Zappe really count? I don't think we can consider arm-limited fourth rounders as real QBOTF's. Seems like more of a backup QBOTF pick.

Sometimes the QB makes the infrastructure. Wilson did it for years in Seattle.

Zappe was still drafted though (he's better than Jones) so they must have saw something in him.

 

[knownone]

My expectations for the team has been pretty nonexistent for 5 or 6 years now so no they haven't changed since Russ was sent packing. As for the rebuild comment, I thought for sure they would at least try to draft a QBOTF but they insisted on riding with two middle of the road QBs. That's why it isn't a rebuild. Carroll thinks he can win with those two shmucks. Without a QBOTF it will never be a rebuild.

Also, if you read my comment you'll notice I wasn't happy about them getting rid of Wilson and I was also elaborating that I suspected a rebuild, but that's not what happened.

Here's the entire quote- "This organization is just insufferable. Get rid of the top 5 QB, but keep the 70 year old fossil to rebuild. The FO will screw up any decent draft picks so get used to being cellar dwellers for the next 10 years."

Really? You seriously had no expectations for the team when they were winning 11-12 games every season?

I read the full quote before posting it. I knew you weren't happy with them moving on from Wilson. I mean, you called Pete a fossil. Lol. But the full quote doesn't change how you defined the situation.

And if you're going to argue that a rebuild doesn't start until you have the QBOTF, then I'd ask, if Seattle trades up for a QB in the upcoming draft, would that be the start of the rebuild? The obvious answer is no because they are past that point. But by your definition, it would be.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Sometimes the QB makes the infrastructure. Wilson did it for years in Seattle.

Zappe was still drafted though (he's better than Jones) so they must have saw something in him.

This is a fair point.

Although I will disagree slightly on Zappe and Jones. Jones actually had a pretty good rookie year. I don't think either of them were particularly sure things as NFL players, but it feels like Mac could've been at least a middling system player.

Mac is definitely more broken at this point, though. I have no idea what Bill is doing. I mean, Matt Patricia as the offensive playcaller? It almost seems like a deliberate effort to ruin his own reputation.

Pete's a bit stuck in his ways, but Bill, I actually worry about his sanity at this point.