I Pray RW Comes back to Seattle.

[Ozzy]

If you watched him and thought he wasn't the problem, and a Super Bowl-winning coach known for his offensive genius watched him and thought he was the problem, does that mean the highly-paid coach regarded as an offensive genius by front offices, analysts, players, and other coaches is wrong, or...

I think its a complicated issue, led by the style of play Payton wanted that differs from Wilson's style and the massive contract the FO put together before he got there. Many around the league disagreed with benching Russ too after watching the tape so not sure what your point is there.

I get Denver cutting bait and wanting to draft a young guy this year, I would do the exact same thing.

 

[SeaWolv]

Russ' problem is he's not who he thinks he is. He wants to be Drew Breeze, but he's not bang-bang quick with his reads like that. And he won't throw it until he sees the guy open. In order to get that kind of time he needs to be on the run.

No OL in the history of the world can block for him. And why would they want to? He's real quick to throw his OL under the bus for not giving him 8 seconds to make up his mind; that is when he's not blaming the defense for not giving him 12 3-and-outs so he can try out his patented no-YAC, moon ball deep throws.

Yeah, he has decent stats year in and year out, but that's because sacks are not considered a QB stat. Right now he's 4th behind Brady (338 games played), Big Ben (249), Aaron Rodgers (231). Russ has played 188 games and will become the most sacked quarterback in NFL history this coming year -- assuming he has a starting job somewhere.

Which Qb Has Been Sacked The Most Times All-time | StatMuse

Tom Brady has gotten sacked the most career by a quarterback, with 565 sacks.

www.statmuse.com

Edit: added the link I used.

Again, I think the time he needs in the pocket has a more to do with him not being able to see his receivers and not that he can't make the reads. He's not a dumb guy he just can't see the field well enough to make the quick reads.

 

[RiverDog]

Chill, it was nothing personal. I've just noticed a ton of the response to Russ seems odd because its obvious most didn't watch him play yet they have a very strong opinion on how he did and they didn't watch him. if you did then great. I watched probably 8-10 games and thought he played much better than what almost everyone on here says. His numbers support that too. I don't care about his QBR when most other metrics were very good, He was good when he needed to be in clutch time and his overall traditional numbers were better than Geno's. He wasn't perfect and his style can be frustrating at times.

It was more than just "didn't fit with Payton" It was also because he wasn't playing up to the massive contract he got and while it stings they needed to cut bait and move on this off season so why not go with the other guy.

Again your opinion is valid, I just disagree massively with it and I think a lot of the anti-Russ takes is because Seahawk fans hate him....which I sort of get. But the idea the dude could never read a defense and only relied on hero ball is false and impossible to sustain for 10 years let alone even game by game..

The reason I took your "didn't watch him" remark to be directed at me was that you made the comment almost immediately in your direct reply to my post. If it were a comment buried down in the rest of your post, I probably wouldn't have made the assumption that you were accusing me of not watching him. It's the same thing in your last paragraph of your above response. You seem to be drawing a direct line between my 'valid' opinion and the anti-Russ hate as you're mentioning both in the very same sentence.

If you've read any of my remarks about Russell, I've gone to great lengths to put a lot of distance between my opinion and those who harbor a genuine hate for him. That's why I get a bit touchy when someone, perhaps inadvertently, paints me with the same brush stroke. But don't worry, I'm not bent out of shape about it. I'm just setting the record straight.

As far as Russell's not being able to read a defense, the accusation seems to have some validity. One stat that would support this conclusion is his excessive time to throw numbers that I harped on earlier in the thread. QB's that can't read defenses are more indecisive.

With regard to the "hero ball" chant, over the last 4-5 years when I attended Hawk games in person, there were multiple times when Russell had receivers open at the 8–15-yard range yet either didn't see them or opted to throw a lower percentage pass. Hero ball might not an accurate description, but something was/is causing him not to throw to those open receivers in the short to medium range. Is it his height? Does he lack peripheral vision? Does he lock onto a receiver and not go through his progression? I suspected that with Metcalf, but I can't prove it. He's shown the same tendency in Denver, which is one of the reasons why Payton is moving on.

 

[AK49Hawk]

Too short, can't see over the middle, end of story.

 

[QWERTY]

In fairness to RW3 he rarely had a decent OLine.

Having said that, he's never been a QB that can sit back in the pocket and throw downfield. That's not his thing. He's not tall enough at 5'11" to see over an OLine that is all guys at 6'4". Which is why his strength was to roll out in the flat, away from pressure, and look for an unobstructed throw downfield and if nothing was there tuck it and run.

When he lost his wheels, he lost a lot of what made him good.

There were some plays that he threw a deep ball to Lockett, while not scrambling for a open guy.

But I understand what you mean his strength was to roll out in the flat away from pressure and throw downfield.

In 2023 it seems that he is able to run a little faster than 2022.

But I do understand that because teams are afraid of him, they put 2 man safties deep. But that's the thing,he still is an elite QB.

 

[QWERTY]

Rookie deal Russ as a dynamic dual threat QB? Sure.

Highly paid Russ as a pocket passer, prioritizing personal accolades over team wins? Nah.

When he is cut, he can be signed for cheap.

 

[CPHawk]

Russ career is falling off the cliff similar to what happened to Alexander. He lost his speed, and as a short QB he can’t do what made him good anymore.

 

[Cyrus12]

Yep bring him in for league min to compete for the 3 job...

 

[Spin Doctor]

His numbers were above average for a starting QB last year.

If his name was Bob Green from the Colts and the Hawks got him on a "Prove it" contract to come in as a back up for the Seahawks...this place would be thrilled.

2023 stats...3000+ yards, 26 TDs and 8 INTs

"He can't run"
Manning, Marino and Montana couldn't run either.

With Pete, no. With M&M's ... Maybe

Manning, Marino and Montana were elite pocket passers, RW is not. He struggles to read defenses even at a basic level. He operates out of a rudimentary offense.

 

[hawks85]

Yeah, that ship has sailed. Wilson along with Adams were/are the 2 locker room cancers.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

It's still possible to trade Geno.

But we really need RW back





Dear RW.

Please come back. Your deep ball was a beauty.

 

[ccla]

"He can't run"
Manning, Marino and Montana couldn't run either.

Yeah but they were great at reading defenses and using the whole field.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Imagine using passer rating instead of quarterback rating to evaluate QBs.

I don't think it's terrible to use Passer Rating as a metric, but overreliance on it as an 'overall' assessment can be an issue. Passer Rating gives you a decent idea of basic QB stats (Completions, Yards, TDs, INTs) and is a valid point of comparison on that specific metric. (And QBR being a 'proprietary' stat is its own issue).

That said, it ignores a lot of things that go into what a team wants from a QB and in Russ's case ignores some important negative aspects that a coach like Payton might justifiably want to distance himself from.

While Russ was better in Passer Rating than Geno, so fairly better than him in the areas measured by that metric this year, he was bottom half of the league in Success Rate, QBR, and ANY/A and Geno was top half in all of those.

QBR and ANY/A are pretty easily explained: Both of those stats take into account getting sacked and passer rating doesn't. Russ was a sack taking machine. His offensive line was rated top 10 in both Pass Block and Run Block Win Rate, yet Russ was still pressured at the same rate as Geno who had a bottom 10 OL because Russ had the 3rd longest time to throw in the entire league. And while Geno was great at avoiding sacks this year despite pressure, Russ wasn't.

Success Rate is that area that Seahawks fans should be quite familiar with from Russ's last couple of years here: He's a boom or bust dude. He's got great Passer Rating because when he hits, he hits. He makes miracles. But in between his miracles is a string of 3 and outs. His average dropback is less likely to be successful than Geno's average dropback and that leads to an offense that has no rhythm.


Russ is a very specific type of QB. As a backup, our offensive philosophy would have to change tremendously from Geno (assuming Geno is our starter next year, though that's not guaranteed) and even though Russ was better in one specific measure of QB performance, he was worse than Geno in most others--so he'd be unlikely to get the starting gig. It makes no sense to have a backup QB who is older than our starter and who would require a completely different offensive philosophy if he were to come into the game.

I'd much rather we focus on drafting a backup QB who could theoretically become our QBOTF than bring Russ back, even at league minimum.

 

[RiverDog]

I don't think it's terrible to use Passer Rating as a metric, but overreliance on it as an 'overall' assessment can be an issue. Passer Rating gives you a decent idea of basic QB stats (Completions, Yards, TDs, INTs) and is a valid point of comparison on that specific metric. (And QBR being a 'proprietary' stat is its own issue).

That said, it ignores a lot of things that go into what a team wants from a QB and in Russ's case ignores some important negative aspects that a coach like Payton might justifiably want to distance himself from.

While Russ was better in Passer Rating than Geno, so fairly better than him in the areas measured by that metric this year, he was bottom half of the league in Success Rate, QBR, and ANY/A and Geno was top half in all of those.

QBR and ANY/A are pretty easily explained: Both of those stats take into account getting sacked and passer rating doesn't. Russ was a sack taking machine. His offensive line was rated top 10 in both Pass Block and Run Block Win Rate, yet Russ was still pressured at the same rate as Geno who had a bottom 10 OL because Russ had the 3rd longest time to throw in the entire league. And while Geno was great at avoiding sacks this year despite pressure, Russ wasn't.

Success Rate is that area that Seahawks fans should be quite familiar with from Russ's last couple of years here: He's a boom or bust dude. He's got great Passer Rating because when he hits, he hits. He makes miracles. But in between his miracles is a string of 3 and outs. His average dropback is less likely to be successful than Geno's average dropback and that leads to an offense that has no rhythm.


Russ is a very specific type of QB. As a backup, our offensive philosophy would have to change tremendously from Geno (assuming Geno is our starter next year, though that's not guaranteed) and even though Russ was better in one specific measure of QB performance, he was worse than Geno in most others--so he'd be unlikely to get the starting gig. It makes no sense to have a backup QB who is older than our starter and who would require a completely different offensive philosophy if he were to come into the game.

I'd much rather we focus on drafting a backup QB who could theoretically become our QBOTF than bring Russ back, even at league minimum.

Excellent post and plays into a lot of what I've been arguing, ie Russell's time to throw and his "pocket time", in other words, the time from the snap until a QB either throws or the pocket breaks down. Russell had the 2nd highest PT, meaning that he was getting pretty good protection and that you can't blame the OL for his sacks.

 

[CactusJack]

When he is cut, he can be signed for cheap.

Right, for a year. Then you would have to pay a 36 yo declining QB.

So, what's the plan? You bring him back for a year on the cheap & then move on?

Geno is a stopgap for one, two years max. On a relatively team friendly deal. Bringing in Russ, would not be an upgrade.

I know nostalgia can be a powerful drug. But it's not logical.

 

[Chukarhawk]

No,

Being Honest but Russ always had a perfect deep ball.

But his weakness was that he can't complete a short pass or a mid pass with no protection, and he can't delay the passing game while using his legs to outrun the defenders.


And with run/run (Pass) it won't work.


With a fixed OL, and revamp RB group it all changes.

you realize Geno's deep ball stats are about the same right? Geno is actually the better QB.

 

[RiverDog]

Yeah, that ship has sailed. Wilson along with Adams were/are the 2 locker room cancers.

I don't think it fair to call either one of them a locker room 'cancer.' When I think of a cancer, I think of someone like Percy Harvin.

Back in the LOB days, it wasn't Russell that was causing angst amongst the other players, it was Pete's treatment of Russell, that he was protecting him, not calling him out for his mistakes while he called out others for theirs, that caused the rub. You can't really blame that on Russell.

 

[bigcc]

Didn't read through the thread, but hard pass

The media spectacle would be unbearable, a backup qb isnt valuable enough to be that kind of distraction

 

[James in PA]

Gonna be a looooong offseason.

 

[bigcc]

Gonna be a looooong offseason.

Not really.

03/05 is the tag deadline, 05/13 is the start of FA

We're going to know a lot more about the roster a month from now lol, and then the draft is the month after.

Speculation will die significantly after that.