Hawks fans never learn

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Seahawks are in a window where they can win now and picking this guy does not improve the team for this season.

You then have to gradually increase his role when KJ/Bobby’s play slips.

Your first rounder should be difference impact players that provides immediate help.

Hawks got eliminated in the divisional round, does picking Brooks help elevate the team that much more this year?

Probably not.

Yeah, there is a notable history of Carroll and Schneider whiffing on picks more so than they hit on picks.

You’re lying to yourself if you honestly believe every draft Carroll and Schneider finds late round pro bowlers and all pros.

Those days are gone. Believe it!

 

[Cyrus12]

They may know more about football but I'd about guarentee if they pick .Nets favorite player every year they would have had more success than than they have had trying to be all above board

I have to say we have an atrocious record with our first round picks over the last 10 season. Not a single on of these players was All-Pro, Pro-Bowl, or even considered a top tier starter except maybe Bruce Irvin who was the highest pick they made.

2011 - #25 OT James Carpenter
2012 - #15 DE/LB Bruce Irvin
2013 - No Pick (Traded for Harvin)
2014 - Trade Back to #45 Paul Richardson
2015 - No Pick (Traded For Jimmy Graham)
2016 - #31 Germain Ifedi
2017 - Trade back #35 Malik McDowell
2018 - #27 Rashaad Penny
2019 - #29 L.J. collier
2020 - #27 Jordyn Brooks

Valid point Wenhawk, but it won't work on your board. You know that.

Looks like a valid argument for how important it is to trade out of the first rd every draft.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Still just an opinion. Kid hasn't even taken the field yet.

 

[edogg23]

Can the seahawks still cut K.J or has his salary been guaranteed already this year at this point?

 

[Erebus]

My favorite part is the annual upheaval from hawks fans thinking they're smarter than js and PC. Lol "but some talking heads mock draft said this guy would go later"

Face it js and pc know more football in their little pinkies than we all do combined.

I strongly disagree with this. They do know a lot about football, but I think its foolish to assume they know more than all the fans. The fact that they have the job and the fans don't does not mean they are smarter. Its just a matter of the NFL being an impossible business to get into unless you know someone.

 

[evergreen]

I remember taking a can’t miss consensus player that was the best player in the draft and touted as the next LT. Aaron Curry anybody? When they struck gold in 2012 they still thought Bruce Irvin was more important than Bobby Wagner...

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Aaron Curry "Safest pick in the draft"

Russell Wilson "Worst pick in the draft"

 

[Erebus]

There was a good article posted (sorry, can't remember by whom or in what thread) about follies of draft experts ranking players based on how everyone else ranks them. Seeing rankings before evaluating players introduces biases. Talent evaluators need to come up with their own perceptions on players first and then compare that to how everyone else ranks them, just to see if they are missing something. I think JS only does half of this. I believe he completely ignores draft experts' thoughts on players and simply goes with his and his scouts' assessments.

While this may be fine in finding some good players, it means he lacks awareness of where a player is really likely to be drafted and results in reaches. This trend has gone on for a decade now. I've heard people say Brooks would've been taken at 33 by the Bengals. I don't buy it. The Bengals are notorious for sticking to public perceptions about players. They are one team you never see reach for a player based on consensus. So, even though he rates Brooks as a first round talent, JS still probably could've had him in the late second round. And if not, LB is not such a great need that you can't risk missing out. There are other needs JS could've filled with Brooks off the board.

 

[gowazzu02]

I don’t understand why we’re not allowed to question a pick the front office makes while also acknowledging that they know more than us. They’re not infallible. Did they not know more than us when they took Ifedi? Would someone have been wrong for questioning that pick?

Threads like this feel like a desperate attempt to appear to be the biggest fan. Congrats on not being critical.

Ifedi compared to alot of picks was a huge success. He was a starter for 4 years...he was also who most experts predicted which means most people here loved the pick.....

 

[gowazzu02]

I don’t understand why we’re not allowed to question a pick the front office makes while also acknowledging that they know more than us. They’re not infallible. Did they not know more than us when they took Ifedi? Would someone have been wrong for questioning that pick?

Threads like this feel like a desperate attempt to appear to be the biggest fan. Congrats on not being critical.

Oh and u can question a pick but people question every pick every year. And are just whiny pants

 

[nwHawk]

This pick has BWags or DangerRuss written all over it. A lot of complaining and doubt from the media when the pick happened. Looks like a potential stud.

 

[gowazzu02]

This pick has BWags or DangerRuss written all over it. A lot of complaining and doubt from the media when the pick happened. Looks like a potential stud.

I read hes 30 lbs heavier than queen. Ran faster and has longer arms....but queen played for lsu....

 

[Mad Dog]

There was a good article posted (sorry, can't remember by whom or in what thread) about follies of draft experts ranking players based on how everyone else ranks them. Seeing rankings before evaluating players introduces biases. Talent evaluators need to come up with their own perceptions on players first and then compare that to how everyone else ranks them, just to see if they are missing something. I think JS only does half of this. I believe he completely ignores draft experts' thoughts on players and simply goes with his and his scouts' assessments.

While this may be fine in finding some good players, it means he lacks awareness of where a player is really likely to be drafted and results in reaches. This trend has gone on for a decade now. I've heard people say Brooks would've been taken at 33 by the Bengals. I don't buy it. The Bengals are notorious for sticking to public perceptions about players. They are one team you never see reach for a player based on consensus. So, even though he rates Brooks as a first round talent, JS still probably could've had him in the late second round. And if not, LB is not such a great need that you can't risk missing out. There are other needs JS could've filled with Brooks off the board.

I think JS pays a lot of attention to what other teams are looking at. I think draftniks and talking heads pay far less to those things. He would have drafted Wilson far earlier if he wasn't confident other teams were overlooking him.

The problem with draftniks and talking heads is they ignore personality in the mix. JS/PC pay a lot of attention to those things trying to get guys that "love to ball" and would fit the locker room and "always compete" mentality. None of us know those things since we don't talk to these people. This is probably the biggest reason we don't draft the consensus best player. Consensus ignores the mental aspect of the game and focuses to much on the purely physical.

 

[Bobblehead]

My favorite part is the annual upheaval from hawks fans thinking they're smarter than js and PC. Lol "but some talking heads mock draft said this guy would go later"

Face it js and pc know more football in their little pinkies than we all do combined.

Brooke's looks like a stud. And a replacement for our getting older kj and eventually Bobby.

I read he was the top guy on their board. They wanted to trade down but the deal fell through so they took the top guy.

I'm glad they didnt reach for a de that 26 other teams passed on just cause they need edge defenders

LOL.. I don't know, I think any of us could have made a better 1st round selection in just about each of the last 8 years.

 

[nanomoz]

I believe they'll regret not taking Jonathan Taylor. *shrug*

 

[flmmkrz]

I wish we could go back and compare the consensus board picks vs the actual picks and see who did better.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

They may know more about football but I'd about guarentee if they pick .Nets favorite player every year they would have had more success than than they have had trying to be all above board

I have to say we have an atrocious record with our first round picks over the last 10 season. Not a single on of these players was All-Pro, Pro-Bowl, or even considered a top tier starter except maybe Bruce Irvin who was the highest pick they made.

2011 - #25 OT James Carpenter
2012 - #15 DE/LB Bruce Irvin
2013 - No Pick (Traded for Harvin)
2014 - Trade Back to #45 Paul Richardson
2015 - No Pick (Traded For Jimmy Graham)
2016 - #31 Germain Ifedi
2017 - Trade back #35 Malik McDowell
2018 - #27 Rashaad Penny
2019 - #29 L.J. collier
2020 - #27 Jordyn Brooks

Well this time next year you can put Brooks up against Queen and the two DE's (who btw all 32 teams passed on despite them playing the 2nd or 3rd most important position in football)

Only if you have equality in comparison. Teams have to be equal of all calibers and all have to be consistent. That is the one thing about the game, you have to weigh all factors, not just the ones one person said or reports. All values have to be taken in context. Maybe that is why Clowney is not signed any where yet. His context is different than what other people think. All of this years choices will be evaluated using a measuring tool that we dont know about yet.....YET. We shall see what happens. I think the 5 year rule is more accurate. Except with Cary Williams....2 game rule applies there.
:2thumbs: :2thumbs:

 

[LoneHawkFan]

They may know more about football but I'd about guarentee if they pick .Nets favorite player every year they would have had more success than than they have had trying to be all above board

I have to say we have an atrocious record with our first round picks over the last 10 season. Not a single on of these players was All-Pro, Pro-Bowl, or even considered a top tier starter except maybe Bruce Irvin who was the highest pick they made.

2011 - #25 OT James Carpenter
2012 - #15 DE/LB Bruce Irvin
2013 - No Pick (Traded for Harvin)
2014 - Trade Back to #45 Paul Richardson
2015 - No Pick (Traded For Jimmy Graham)
2016 - #31 Germain Ifedi
2017 - Trade back #35 Malik McDowell
2018 - #27 Rashaad Penny
2019 - #29 L.J. collier
2020 - #27 Jordyn Brooks

I have bolded the problem. It is more a problem of individual expectations than what the data says hit rates should be in the first round. Some samplings I found had around 54% of 1st rounders not even becoming starters, let alone all-pros, with ~49% becoming consistent starters at any point in their career and somewhere around 30-35% making pro-bowls. Looking at the above list, it seems the Seahawks are right in line or even slightly above average on their hit rate depending on how you view Penny (collier can't be evaluated yet).

Seems to me people just need to dial back their expectations to something more realistic to get a more objective view.

Furthermore, why aren’t we going back to the beginning of PC/JS? Why not go back to 2010?

Ahhhhh yes. Two studs. One HOFer, maybe 2. Lol.

 

[xray]

To be fair, the last 4 drafts would have had a much better result on the top end if they just used one of the consensus big boards rather than taking a huge reach in the 1st/2nd round.

LJ Collier
Rashaad Penny
Malik McDowell
Germain Ifedi

^
Looks like simple math for any business. How much bang for the buck ?

 

[mcbobly]

My favorite part is the annual upheaval from hawks fans thinking they're smarter than js and PC. Lol "but some talking heads mock draft said this guy would go later"

Face it js and pc know more football in their little pinkies than we all do combined.

Brooke's looks like a stud. And a replacement for our getting older kj and eventually Bobby.

I read he was the top guy on their board. They wanted to trade down but the deal fell through so they took the top guy.

I'm glad they didnt reach for a de that 26 other teams passed on just cause they need edge defenders

I beg to differ. Judging by the number of duds they've drafted over the past few years I'd say they've totally forgotten what they're doing.