Great write up about our O line and pass protection issues

[Rainger]

Hawkblooger has written an excellent analysis of the components of our passing game.

Gee I wish Bevell would read this. Many have talked about RW holding the ball too long and everyone is lamenting the game in ST Louie however the bigger issue is the long developing plays that are called.

Read This:

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2013/10/the- ... ction.html

 

[Smelly McUgly]

The coaching staff needs to return to its run commitment, regardless of how many players the defense stacks in the box.

I am going to bang this drum repeatedly. They put eight or nine in the box? Come out in 22 and run the ball anyway.

 

[SilkMonkey]

Yeah, take the hard yardage and let them know YOU decide what to do; not have them dictate your gameplan.

The defense shouldn't be dictating our playcalling- if it is we need an o-coordinator with balls.

 

[AgentDib]

This is oversimplified to a fault.

Throwing in just 2.5 seconds may seem like a lofty goal, but five quarterbacks average less than that on all of their throws. Peyton Manning has made a career of releasing the ball quickly to avoid sacks, even behind very suspect offensive lines. He leads the NFL with a 2.36 average time to throw. Mathew Stafford, Andy Dalton and Philip Rivers all average 2.47 seconds or less, and all four of those teams rank in the top eight in opponent sack percentage (percent of pass attempts that result in a quarterback sack).

QB's get the ball out when they go through their progression and find a target. Of course getting the ball out earlier will be more successful. It means that your play worked and the QB went through the progressions successfully. This is not fundamentally different from an analysis chasing ToP or any other variable simply based on correlation. Average time to throw will tell you a lot about how effective an offense is, but it absolutely should not be pursued over more meaningful goals like effective YPA.

 

[hidn]

Yeah, take the hard yardage and let them know YOU decide what to do; not have them dictate your gameplan.

The defense shouldn't be dictating our playcalling- if it is we need an o-coordinator with balls.

Football is more like chess, not Othello. You absolutely change your play calling based on what the defense is trying to do and the defense adjusts to your adjustments.

The key is making the right adjustments at the right time, which is what we haven't been doing on offense.

It's hard to place blame on the offensive coordinator when you have such a large issue with the offensive line. If it's 3rd and 8 and I put 8 in the box with a single deep safetly and man on the outside. The CB's are shading the inside of the receivers so they cant get a clean release for a slant. Your quarterback has less than 3 seconds before he is going to get sacked. What do you do?

Screen Pass? That will only work if they are blitzing. The LB's aren't going to drop into any form of a deep zone.
WR Screen? That wont work, they are in press man.
WR Slant? That will likely be unsucceful with the CB's schemed to take it away.
Deep pass? Low percentage and not a lot of time for the WR to create deep seperation.
Curls? Unlikely your quarterback has time to wait for the receiver to get off press coverage and get open.
Run? Have fun punting....

The bottom line is that there really isn't much that can be done when your quarterback has so little time before he is pressured. Our offense is predicated around the defense having to stack the box to stop lynch becuase it forces 1on1's with our receivers. Unfortunately, when your offensive line doens't give your quarterback any time it puts you in a bad situation.

 

[edogg23]

The coaching staff needs to return to its run commitment, regardless of how many players the defense stacks in the box.

I am going to bang this drum repeatedly. They put eight or nine in the box? Come out in 22 and run the ball anyway.

It is just plain stupid IMO to run the ball with 9 people in the box. Put 9 in the box against Denver and see what happens. I promise you that their offensive coordinator and Peyton Manning would have no problems figuring out what to do. If a team is going to sell out against the run then you should be able to make them pay through the air, especially if you have had time to game plan it. It's not rocket science.

 

[Largent80]

Mc Q is a guard playing tackle. They are trying to get him up to speed but it is not going to happen. It is about ability/agility/footwork/speed. None of those apply to McQ.

Evidently the staff hasn't seen enough of an impression of Bailey to put him in there and frankly that proposition is even scarier than trotting Ginger out there.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

The coaching staff needs to return to its run commitment, regardless of how many players the defense stacks in the box.

I am going to bang this drum repeatedly. They put eight or nine in the box? Come out in 22 and run the ball anyway.

It is just plain stupid IMO to run the ball with 9 people in the box. Put 9 in the box against Denver and see what happens. I promise you that their offensive coordinator and Peyton Manning would have no problems figuring out what to do. If a team is going to sell out against the run then you should be able to make them pay through the air, especially if you have had time to game plan it. It's not rocket science.

Why would anyone put nine in the box against Denver? Bad example.

Anyway, the point is that we run to pass. That's how our offense is set up. Going away from that is going to make it harder to execute. We're about wearing down a defense by pounding the ball at them all day. You don't go away from that and let Quinn and Long manhandle your backup tackles.

What you do is get Miller and Davis and Robinson and Lynch out there and say "Our guys are better than your guys," which they were since we were a top five rushing offense and the Rams were a bottom five rushing defense before the game, and let your guys do what they do best.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

We all know what the answer is. Quick slants and screens. Guess who's best at quick slants? Mr. Clutch, Doug Baldwin, my breakout player of the year candidate.

Slot receivers are often a solution when quick route wins are needed. Seattle happens to have the #1 slot receiver in the NFL in terms of yards per route run and catch rate (source: PFF). Yet, of the 23 slot receivers that have played at least 50% of their snaps in the slot, Baldwin has the fewest targets with only 30.

That's right, Baldwin is the #1 slot receiver in the NFL. Not Welker, not Colston, not Cruz. Doug Baldwin.

Monday night, Baldwin was targeted exactly ONCE. On a screen pass that gained 12 yards. A play all of us were screaming for more of.

If Wilson is going to improve his game and get rid of the ball quicker, he's GOT to start targeting Doug Baldwin more often. We can't wait for the oline to improve. Wilson needs to improve as well. He needs to get rid of the ball quicker, not always go for that deep route and be quicker to get the ball to Baldwin. What the oline can't do for him, Wilson needs to do for himself.

 

[JonRud]

Agree 100% about Baldwin. I do not understand why he disappears for almost entire games when he is such a great receiver when they throw him the ball.

 

[MysterMatt]

Is it fair to say that as much as the OL sucks, Wilson is also part of the problem?

 

[SalishHawkFan]

I think the reason Wilson doesn't target Baldwin more often is twofold: 1: He's looking downfield and by the time he checks down to Baldwin, if ever, it's too late and the rush is in his face. 2: Wilson is being ultra conservative in order to avoid the turnover. Brees has said that on many occasions he throws that slant pass to a receiver he doesn't even see the guy, he just knows where his receiver is going to be. Wilson hasn't been around long enough to have the confidence to make that kind of blind throw. He may know where Baldwin is, but that doesn't mean he trusts Baldwin is open enough to take the risk. Especially if he's been looking deep and not following what is going on directly behind the los.

@Matt: I wouldn't call Wilson part of the "problem". I'd say it's an area for him to improve his game. Everyone is trying to get better and have room to improve.

 

[jlwaters1]

I think something most aren't even factoring in is the horrible penalties. Luke Willson get's a great slant play only for a hands to the face on Sweezy to bring it back. Then Marshawn breaks a big one only for Sweezy to hold on the play.

the first 2 drives were scuttled due to these penalties. It's hard to run the ball successfully when it's 1st and 20 or 2nd and 12.

I would like to see Russell getting the ball out quicker. There was a few plays where he had Turbin and Miller and took the sack instead of making the throw. I'd like to see more quick passes to offset what the defense is doing. Too many long drop backs and Wilson holding the ball too long.

 

[mikeak]

Yeah, take the hard yardage and let them know YOU decide what to do; not have them dictate your gameplan.

The defense shouldn't be dictating our playcalling- if it is we need an o-coordinator with balls.

I guess I disagree on a basic level.

If I go out and decide that I am getting laid tonight and going to this one bar. Then I walk in and all I see are guys then I am either changing bars or deciding not to get laid..........

We have a competent QB and competent WRs. If the running game is blocked by 8 or 9 guys then I should be capable to get the ball to those WRs over and over and over again until there are not 8 guys in the freaking box. While we want to run we are not supposed to be a one-dimensional team.

 

[mikeak]

I think something most aren't even factoring in is the horrible penalties. Luke Willson get's a great slant play only for a hands to the face on Sweezy to bring it back. Then Marshawn breaks a big one only for Sweezy to hold on the play.

the first 2 drives were scuttled due to these penalties. It's hard to run the ball successfully when it's 1st and 20 or 2nd and 12.

I would like to see Russell getting the ball out quicker. There was a few plays where he had Turbin and Miller and took the sack instead of making the throw. I'd like to see more quick passes to offset what the defense is doing. Too many long drop backs and Wilson holding the ball too long.

Agree 100% and add two drops - one by Tate and one by Kearse and you negated four first downs that instead directly led to four punts.....

 

[MysterMatt]

I think something most aren't even factoring in is the horrible penalties. Luke Willson get's a great slant play only for a hands to the face on Sweezy to bring it back. Then Marshawn breaks a big one only for Sweezy to hold on the play.

the first 2 drives were scuttled due to these penalties. It's hard to run the ball successfully when it's 1st and 20 or 2nd and 12.

I would like to see Russell getting the ball out quicker. There was a few plays where he had Turbin and Miller and took the sack instead of making the throw. I'd like to see more quick passes to offset what the defense is doing. Too many long drop backs and Wilson holding the ball too long.

Good points. Sweezey was doing his best to ruin any momentum we could muster.

 

[mikeak]

I think the reason Wilson doesn't target Baldwin more often is twofold: 1: He's looking downfield and by the time he checks down to Baldwin, if ever, it's too late and the rush is in his face. .

When you are getting crushed like RW was on Monday then Baldwin shouldn't be the second / third option....... You take the five yard, ten yard catches and move down slowly. We did it against the titans on a great looking drive. Just slowly moved down the field and put 7 on the board. This is how we tire out the defense and open up running lanes.

I agree 100% on the concern related to height. Did you see the MNF game awhile back with Brees where he is trying to see over the line? Just a real funny picture with his head, eyes and the helmet and him just trying to see enough

 

[themunn]

I wish this "time to release" stat would disappear.

What do Peyton Manning, Matt Stafford, Andy Dalton & Philip Rivers all have in common that means they release the ball quickly compared to players like Michael Vick, Terrelle Pryor and Russell Wilson?

The fact is, if Wilson was less mobile, he'd be sacked more but actually have a lower "time holding onto the ball".

Take his TD to Rice against Arizona, flushed out of the pocket in 2 seconds, but held onto the ball for 5 seconds before releasing the ball. Wilson extends plays, sometimes holds on to the ball for 7-8 seconds while he scans the field for a target. The time the player holds on to the ball is maybe relevant for immobile QBs, but Wilson is rarely sacked for holding on to the ball for too long in the pocket. I'd wager that the majority of the time Wilson is sacked inside the pocket, the pressure has come quickly. Yet, his "time to sack" will be inflated because of the number of times he's escaped pressure THEN taken a sack.

I think more relevant would be an "average time to sack" against an "average time to pressure" against an "average time holding on to the ball" so that you could see all 3 together. What we'd probably see is that Wilson is pressured more quickly than most QBs, yet his average time to sack and average time to throw would be way further down.

 

[hoxrox]

Is it fair to say that as much as the OL sucks, Wilson is also part of the problem?

Yes - sometimes holds the ball too long, doesn't always trust his first read, and tendency to overthrow on short and intermediate passes.

He'll improve in these areas, I'm sure.

 

[Fudwamper]

He is absolutely wrong with his assessment. I think he is shooting from the hip with feelings and using generalizations instead of looking at the plays and what happened in each play. Context is always important.