Great Article on Pete Carroll

soxhawk

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I so wish Pete could've made one more run with us but it was sadly time to move on and kudos to ownership for identifying that as well.
 

NoGain

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Yeah, I was willing to give him one more chance a few years ago to construct a championship contending team, so respectful I felt towards him as our HC. I wantd him to succeed one more time in this way. Sadly, it just didn't happen for all the reasons we've well discussed ad nauseam on this site. He was such a breath of fresh air in his approach to building such a positive and winning culture here.
 

RiverDog

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Here's a great CNN article on Pete Carroll. While I don't disagree with his removal as coach, I do consider him one of the greatest ever.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/21/sport/pete-carroll-seattle-seahawks-spt-intl/index.html
One of the greatest ever? That would have to mean that he's HOF material, and if Mike Holmgren, having taken 3 teams to Super Bowls, winning one, and with two different franchises isn't good enough for a gold jacket, I can hardly see Pete getting one.

Pete's unquestionably the best coach we've ever had as a franchise. Better stop there.
 
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bsuhawk

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One of the greatest ever? That would have to mean that he's HOF material, and if Mike Holmgren, having taken 3 teams to Super Bowls, winning one, and with two different franchises isn't good enough for a gold jacket, I can hardly see Pete getting one.

Pete's unquestionably the best coach we've ever had as a franchise. Better stop there.
IMHO both Holmgren and Carroll should eventually be in the HOF.
 

Maelstrom787

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One of the greatest ever? That would have to mean that he's HOF material, and if Mike Holmgren, having taken 3 teams to Super Bowls, winning one, and with two different franchises isn't good enough for a gold jacket, I can hardly see Pete getting one.

Pete's unquestionably the best coach we've ever had as a franchise. Better stop there.
Yes, one of the greatest ever. Over 20 straight years of premier coaching, having reached the pinnacle at both major levels of football. The only coach to ever do that, and many have tried.
 

RiverDog

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Yes, one of the greatest ever. Over 20 straight years of premier coaching, having reached the pinnacle at both major levels of football. The only coach to ever do that, and many have tried.
Not true. Jimmy Johnson won a National Title at Miami and two SB's with the Cowboys. Barry Switzer won the CFB Championship with Oklahoma and a Lombardi as coach of the Cowboys. Additionally, Bud Grant won numerous Grey Cups in the CFL and an NFL championship with the Vikings.

Although admirable, what Pete did was by no means unique. You're talking about "one of the greatest ever". That bar is damn high.
 

Wheetie

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Yes, one of the greatest ever. Over 20 straight years of premier coaching, having reached the pinnacle at both major levels of football. The only coach to ever do that, and many have tried.
Wait, college success plays into the NFL Hall of Fame?
 

RiverDog

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IMHO both Holmgren and Carroll should eventually be in the HOF.
It's probably not going to happen. Holmgren was a finalist for the HOF in 2020 but didn't make it. He was nominated again in 2021 but wasn't one of the finalists. He wasn't nominated in 2022 or 2023. The committee has likely moved on from him. If he doesn't get in, I can't see how Pete makes it.

There are two coaches in Pete's era, Bill Belichick and Andy Reid, who have qualifications well in excess of his own and are slam dunk HOF'ers. There are three coaches in that same era that have equaled or exceeded Pete's 2 SB's and one Lombardi. Tom Coughlin won two Lombardis. Mike Tomlin has been to two SB's, winning one. Same with Sean McVay. John Harbaugh already has one a Lombardi and is one game away from going to his 2nd SB.

Pete's winning percentages aren't that impressive, either. His regular season winning percentage is .586 while his playoff winning percentage is just .500. Andy Reid's winning percentages, for example, are .641 and .590 respectively.

I'm not a Pete hater, I'm just being realistic. I don't see him making the HOF, and if his NFL record, where he spent the vast majority of his coaching career, doesn't qualify him for the HOF, I can hardly see where a person can consider him "one of the greatest ever".
 
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bsuhawk

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It's probably not going to happen. Holmgren was a finalist for the HOF in 2020 but didn't make it. He was nominated again in 2021 but wasn't one of the finalists. He wasn't nominated in 2022 or 2023. The committee has likely moved on from him. If he doesn't get in, I can't see how Pete makes it.

Pete has two coaches in his era, Bill Belichick and Andy Reid, who have qualifications well in excess of his own and are slam dunk HOF'ers. There are two coaches in that same era that have equaled Pete's 2 SB's and one Lombardi. Tom Coughlin won two Lombardis. Mike Tomlin has been to two SB's, winning one. Same with Sean McVay. John Harbaugh already has one a Lombardi and is one game away from going to his 2nd SB.

I'm not a Pete hater, I'm just being realistic. I don't see him making the HOF, and if his NFL record, where he spent the vast majority of his coaching career, doesn't separate him from such a large field, I can hardly see where a person can consider him "one of the greatest ever".
I didn't say Carroll (or Holmgren) would make the HOF. I said that I think they should. I also think Kenny Easley should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Instead, he had to wait until 2016. My track record for predicting the future has always sucked, so it wouldn't surprise me to find out yours is better.
 

RiverDog

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I didn't say Carroll (or Holmgren) would make the HOF. I said that I think they should. I also think Kenny Easley should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Instead, he had to wait until 2016. My track record for predicting the future has always sucked, so it wouldn't surprise me to find out yours is better.
I didn't indicate that you said that they would get in. I just said that it ain't gonna happen.

It's my opinion that Holmgren should get in, I just don't think that he will. But unless they really lower the bar in future years and give gold jackets to a half dozen or so in his era, I can't agree with Pete making it.

What held Easley back was his longevity. He played just 7 years, one of if not the fewest seasons in the modern era to have made the HOF. Plus, he doesn't have a ring or even played in a Super Bowl, which seems to be one of the criteria.
 
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GemCity

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IMO , Pete should make it in. He had a sustained level of success for a long, long time.

It was beyond time for him to move on and I’m happy we did. I was feeling the “need a new HC itch” as early as 2018.

Just can’t deny his success, nor impact, on the city and the league.
 

knownone

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Pete will make the HoF. He has arguably the best 6-year defensive stretch of any head coach in NFL history. And if Bill Cower can get it, Pete will eventually.
 

RiverDog

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Well would you say Bill Cower is a much better coach than Pete? Bill Cower has 192 wins and is in the HOF.
I agree with you on Cower. He doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. It's likely due to a heavy bias that a lot of former Steelers/Cowboys have benefited from.

My point is that there are a lot of other coaches in Pete's era that have just as good if not better HOF qualifications as he has. He's sort of like Russell in that he has never won a Coach of the Year award.
 

RiverDog

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Pete will make the HoF. He has arguably the best 6-year defensive stretch of any head coach in NFL history. And if Bill Cower can get it, Pete will eventually.
The best 6 year defensive stretch in NFL history? How far back does your history go? To the Steel Curtain, Doomsday, or No Name defenses? How about the Fearsome Foursome or Purple People Eaters?

Pete had arguably the best defense in the 21st century. You go very far beyond that and the game changes to the point where it's pointless to compare teams or players. I get into the same argument when people claim that Tom Brady is the GOAT.
 

knownone

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The best 6 year defensive stretch in NFL history? How far back does your history go? To the Steel Curtain, Doomsday, or No Name defenses? How about the Fearsome Foursome or Purple People Eaters?

Pete had arguably the best defense in the 21st century. You go very far beyond that and the game changes to the point where it's pointless to compare teams or players. I get into the same argument when people claim that Tom Brady is the GOAT.
I used the qualifier arguably for a reason. I'm not saying it was the best defensive stretch in history; I'm saying there is an argument. Here's the argument: Seattle had the #1 defense for four straight years and top 5 in six straight. The only other teams that match/surpass that streak are the 50s Browns and the 80s Bears. Best ever? Probably not. But unique enough that Pete almost certainly makes the HoF.
 

RiverDog

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I used the qualifier arguably for a reason. I'm not saying it was the best defensive stretch in history; I'm saying there is an argument. Here's the argument: Seattle had the #1 defense for four straight years and top 5 in six straight. The only other teams that match/surpass that streak are the 50s Browns and the 80s Bears. Best ever? Probably not. But unique enough that Pete almost certainly makes the HoF.
The problem I have with these all-inclusive statements like "best defensive stretch in history" is that it's comparing apples with oranges. First of all, how do you measure defensive performance, by total points or total yards? And what defines a stretch? 3 years? 5 years? 8 years? You can change the definitions to fit your narrative. And is it fair to judge a 16 game, 32 team league with a 12 game, 16 team league? Are you going to consider teams in the CFL, the old AFL, or the AAFC when making such a statement? Heck, it's a challenge even to find statistics and rankings going back into the 20's and 30's. IMO it's pointless to even argue about it.

If you want to say best or one of the best in his era, I can handle that. You start leaving it open ended by saying best or one of the best in history, you'll always raise the hackles on my neck. More so than baseball or basketball, professional football is way too dynamic for us to compare players and teams from different eras and judge one as being better than another.

Back in 1999, I got a real belly laugh when ESPN named a contemporary, active player in Michael Jordan as the best North American athlete in the 20th century, elevating him over Babe Ruth, Jim Thorpe, et al. They probably owned stock in Nike.
 
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TwilightError

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Not sure about HoF but Pete can be said to be one of the best ever, as we talk about coaching the sport. College counts for that but not for HoF.
 
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