Bellicheat vs Pete Carroll

[Rainger]

Fact:
The Patriots are 25-26 since Tom Brady left the team, with zero playoff wins. New England’s 3-10 against Buffalo and Miami since Tom Brady walked off campus. Was it TB or the media appointed great one??

Hmm put that in to perspective. Look at the records, the easy AFC east over the years was a feast for TB and the "great coach".

Pete had a much tougher division over the years (yea a couple of bad division years) and had a QB that ran around and did some amazing things but did many more that was not in the discipline of the team sport.

PC definitely on par with the so called greatest when you strip away TB. Imagine TB with the Hawks during the 5 years of the LOB and the Team PC and JS built.

No Fade DONT try to tell me that the Hawks would have been a losing team without ME3, Geno proved YOU wrong 1000 times over last year with a bad team. Geno with the teams ME3 had would easily have had as good as or better records.

He would have played in the scheme of the team not against it.

Last year proved Pete Carroll is a BETTER coach than Bellicheat!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

You're not supposed to drink the bong water. I love Pete, but just stop. Better than Bill B? No

 

[JustTheTip]

Pete is a better culture guy, Billy is a better x and o guy and strategist.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And BOTH get a ton out of their players.

 

[Mizak]

LOL please. Bill actually adjusts in mid game something Pete never ever does.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Geno with the teams ME3 had would easily have had as good as or better records.

He would have played in the scheme of the team not against it.

Last year proved Pete Carroll is a BETTER coach than Bellicheat!

All of this is wrong, but to each their own.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's literally just making stuff up. How very dot clueless of him

 

[Maelstrom787]

They're both great coaches and their strengths overlap quite a bit despite their styles being polar opposites.

I do wonder where Bill goes from here. He needs to start cooking something quickly to prevent the narrative from taking hold that it was all Brady. For all the complaints about Pete, Bill has even more control over the roster decisions than Pete does in practice and it hasn't resulted in great drafting for them.

Bill isn't beating the accusations that it was all the QB like Pete is so far, but then again, Russ ain't Brady.

Bill needs a real quarterback, and he needs to get a grip on his coaching staff. You think Pete gets cute? You need to look at Belichick. You guys would be on Bill's ass harder than you are on Pete. His son looks like a lunatic and openly admitted to being promoted to roles he had no idea how to coach by his father, and Matt Patricia as offensive playcaller was a bafflingly horrible decision that backfired massively.

That said, Bill is a master technician and ruthless strategist, and that ain't changing.

 

[Scout]

The problem with BB is that he tends to rely too much on yes men (eg offense) which is why the offense hasn't been dynamic in a while even when TB was there. The other part is that without adding a competent game breaking WR it is hard to have a modern offense. If you think about it the golden ticket to compete in this league is to have a 1a and 1b WR ideally on offense. I mean Locket is a clear #1 WR in the Patriots offense for example. Godwin is a 1b for the Bucs but would be a clear #1 for the Patriots offense as well. There are #3 WRs on other teams that would be clear #1 WRs on the Patriots currently.

Schematically what the Patriots would do is spread teams out and have WRs with quick release and burst beat m2m or zone coverages. But teams started to sit on the routes because the Patriots lacked a deep threat and also a dominant WR that could win on the boundary. The closest to that was Gronk and without Gronk it became apparent the Patriots offense just doesn't threaten anyone.

That is why there are rumors of D. Hopkins going to the Pats as he can win on the boundary and also provide a deep threat.

PC has the opposite problem in that he needs to rebuild and refocus his defensive strategies to catchup with the modern NFL trends Which is why it seems that he is doing a complete clean slate with the front seven. Don't be shocked if the Seahawks double dip in adding reinforcements to the front seven. Seahawks need difference makers in the front seven badly.

 

[olyfan63]

Pete is a better culture guy, Billy is a better x and o guy and strategist.

Belichick has come up with several great defensive game plans in SBs and playoff games that were the difference in the game. The most recent one was vs. the McVay and Jared Goff Rams a few years back, in Feb. 2019 where the great McVay offense got stuffed by the Patriots defense and Jared Goff had the deer-in-the-headlights look the whole game and couldn't seem to adjust. McVay's plays gave Goff answers, but Goff didn't understand the questions. McVay's adjustment was during the off-season, to ditch Goff and get Matthew Stafford.

IIRC there was also a some NE cleverness involving the timing of when QB Goff's headset cut off, 15 seconds before the play clock runs out, that the Patriots would disguise their D until just after that, leaving it entirely on Goff's shoulders to read and adjust pre-snap. It was too heavy a load for Goff.

 

[bileever]

Brady's departure and subsequent success with the Bucs is going to make people question whether Belichick's reputation as one of the greatest coaches is deserved, and whether the Patriots' success wouldn't have happened without Brady. This will be debated for some time.

Belichick was 36-44 in Cleveland before being fired, and was 5-11 in New England before Brady. He did have that 11-5 season the year Brady was hurt and Matt Cassell was the QB. But they didn't make the playoffs that year. And he's been 25-25 post-Brady.

I imagine he is very likely getting a lot of criticism for being too old and letting the game pass him by now. His crusty demeanor and old school ways probably don't sit well with a lot of NFL players at this point. I didn't think it was possible, but I think it's more likely Bill gets fired than Pete.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The Patriots are a strange team. They never seem to have superstars (sans Brady and Gronk) and they compete with JAGs. Yeah they had Moss for awhile, but their receivers always seem to be rather ordinary. RBs the same way. Its strange.

I also wonder if Gronk didnt have just as much to do with their winning than Brady did? Probably not, but just a thought.

 

[Frozenropers]

The Patriots are a strange team. They never seem to have superstars (sans Brady and Gronk) and they compete with JAGs. Yeah they had Moss for awhile, but their receivers always seem to be rather ordinary. RBs the same way. Its strange.

I also wonder if Gronk didnt have just as much to do with their winning than Brady did? Probably not, but just a thought.

Their defense had some pretty stout names for many years.

Wilfork
Harrison
Bruschi
McGinest
Seymour
Law
Gilmore
Hightower

 

[chris98251]

Like most teams the Patriots need a QB that is a quick twitch thinker and processor. Brady was. They also need a OC, remember when the Broncos had McDaniel's their offense suffered also, it's when he came back they took off again. First year Josh was gone Brady is in confrontations with their OC can't remember his name now. This is what is happening again.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Their defense had some pretty stout names for many years.

Wilfork
Harrison
Bruschi
McGinest
Seymour
Law
Gilmore
Hightower

Yeah, truth there.

 

[NJlargent]

I think Andy Reid is better than both of them.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Reid is one hell of a coach, no doubt.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

I think Andy Reid is better than both of them.

And didnt win a thing until he had a superstar QB. Crazy how this all works.

 

[AROS]

Pete is a better culture guy, Billy is a better x and o guy and strategist.

Really sums up the thread in a simple sentence. Well played.

 

[Full Metal]

The Patriots are a strange team. They never seem to have superstars (sans Brady and Gronk) and they compete with JAGs. Yeah they had Moss for awhile, but their receivers always seem to be rather ordinary. RBs the same way. Its strange.

I also wonder if Gronk didnt have just as much to do with their winning than Brady did? Probably not, but just a thought.

When the rest of the league picked up expensive and super cheap players, the Patriots got mostly middle of the pack players, who knew how to play the game, but didn't demand a high salary.