Golden State Warriors

[Hasselbeck]

Here are some players off the top of my head from the 2007 Cavs team that went to the finals - IIgaukas, Gibson, Damon Jones, Drew Gooden, Shannon Brown but really that's not my point. Kobe took the Lakers to the finals...how did he help make those around him better? That's the point. I don't deny LBJ's star ability - He's the best player in the NBA. IMO, he just doesn't make those around him better.

For his career - even with playing a bulk of his pre-Heat days with bums.. LeBron averages 7 assists per game. That roster you named that he took to the Finals wins 20 games without LeBron. That is the epitome of elevating your teammates.

Kobe was a great player, but entirely different from LeBron in style. Kobe wanted to get his first, then have his role guys hit shots on the few opportunities they had. If you recall, those Laker teams after the Shaq trade and before the Gasol trade were not good.. and Kobe certainly didn't help elevate their game.

Lebron is an insecure baby. At least Muhammed Ali backed up most of his "im the greatest talk" and handled himself more professionally. I hope Lebron and his fake hairline get swept by GS (just shave your head dude). I agree he doesn't make players around him better. I've been saying the same thing about Carmelo Anything too. Keep in mind Miami bailed him out pretty much (especially Ray Allen). He could easily have only 1 ring. That was a real team he played on in Miami. Lebron is a dominant force to the rim but he's just not a very good shooter. Both Kobe and Jordan > Lebron.

This is the fist time in awhile i've actually talked about the snooze fest NBA. It's completely pointless up until the conference finals. Such an imbalanced league. There's only 2-3 teams with a legit shot to win the title each year. The decision to put advertisements on the jerseys just goes to show you how much the NBA has fallen.

This take is all sorts of bad. For one, the Ali/LeBron thing is just ... weird. Ali played in an individual sport and talked far more trash than LeBron ever has. So that's a major reach there.

And I'm cracking up at you comparing LeBron to Carmelo Anthony. They are literally nothing alike as players. This is a truly awful comparison.. and if you truly believe LeBron doesn't make his teammates better you're either 1) a blind hater of the guy 2) do not know basketball .. I'm sorry, but in the modern era of basketball, no one has done more with less than LeBron James. The Ray Allen bailing him out thing is a joke too, as Miami was down double digits in Game 6 and it was LeBron that brought the team all the way back. Even the great players need their teammates to knock down a big shot sometimes.

[youtube]GnAr4I3-Z48[/youtube]

The only time I truly believe LeBron "choked" was against the Mavericks. That Heat team had no business losing the title that year, and blew a couple of games in that series - in large part because LeBron just checked out.

 

[IndyHawk]

Hasselbeck/Hawklock enjoy reading all the posts in here.I can't add much more but good job.I hope the Cavs can find a way to win it but as Throw said they need to attack.I feel that heart can go a long ways but you have to fight every minute and thats everyone on the Cavs not just Lebron..Defense Defense and more Defense!

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Love is probable for game 4. Big time decision for Lue. If Pete Carroll were coaching the Cavs I'd know what his decision would be. Most coaches won't bench a superstar though.

On a side note, I'm kind of rooting for Cleveland too. Did anyone watch the 30 for 30, Believeland? As a sports fan from Seattle, I really feel for the fans of Cleveland. So much heartbreak.

 

[Crizilla]

Here are some players off the top of my head from the 2007 Cavs team that went to the finals - IIgaukas, Gibson, Damon Jones, Drew Gooden, Shannon Brown but really that's not my point. Kobe took the Lakers to the finals...how did he help make those around him better? That's the point. I don't deny LBJ's star ability - He's the best player in the NBA. IMO, he just doesn't make those around him better.

For his career - even with playing a bulk of his pre-Heat days with bums.. LeBron averages 7 assists per game. That roster you named that he took to the Finals wins 20 games without LeBron. That is the epitome of elevating your teammates.

Kobe was a great player, but entirely different from LeBron in style. Kobe wanted to get his first, then have his role guys hit shots on the few opportunities they had. If you recall, those Laker teams after the Shaq trade and before the Gasol trade were not good.. and Kobe certainly didn't help elevate their game.

Lebron is an insecure baby. At least Muhammed Ali backed up most of his "im the greatest talk" and handled himself more professionally. I hope Lebron and his fake hairline get swept by GS (just shave your head dude). I agree he doesn't make players around him better. I've been saying the same thing about Carmelo Anything too. Keep in mind Miami bailed him out pretty much (especially Ray Allen). He could easily have only 1 ring. That was a real team he played on in Miami. Lebron is a dominant force to the rim but he's just not a very good shooter. Both Kobe and Jordan > Lebron.

This is the fist time in awhile i've actually talked about the snooze fest NBA. It's completely pointless up until the conference finals. Such an imbalanced league. There's only 2-3 teams with a legit shot to win the title each year. The decision to put advertisements on the jerseys just goes to show you how much the NBA has fallen.

This take is all sorts of bad. For one, the Ali/LeBron thing is just ... weird. Ali played in an individual sport and talked far more trash than LeBron ever has. So that's a major reach there.

And I'm cracking up at you comparing LeBron to Carmelo Anthony. They are literally nothing alike as players. This is a truly awful comparison.. and if you truly believe LeBron doesn't make his teammates better you're either 1) a blind hater of the guy 2) do not know basketball .. I'm sorry, but in the modern era of basketball, no one has done more with less than LeBron James. The Ray Allen bailing him out thing is a joke too, as Miami was down double digits in Game 6 and it was LeBron that brought the team all the way back. Even the great players need their teammates to knock down a big shot sometimes.

[youtube]GnAr4I3-Z48[/youtube]

The only time I truly believe LeBron "choked" was against the Mavericks. That Heat team had no business losing the title that year, and blew a couple of games in that series - in large part because LeBron just checked out.

Both Lebron and Ali have said that they are the greatest. The difference is Ali was more mature and respected. Lebron chose a terrible time to announce that he's the greatest, which was after a game 5 loss during last years finals. Rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Why at that time? Seemed selfish and almost as if hes throwing his teammates under the bus. You never saw Jordan or Kobe say that post game. That's weird. Then Lebron acts like a baby when Curry wins MVP. He even admitted that was a mistake responding like that. He lacks mental toughness. You're right that great players need teammates to contribute, look at Tom Brady. If Vinitari wasn't as clutch he could be down 2 rings. Throw in the game that shall not be named, and he could be minus 3 rings! But I think we can all agree Brady is a better leader than Lebron. He came back to Cleveland to lead the cavs to a title, to prove he doesn't need a Miami team loaded with proven veterans.


LEL cavs fell apart in the 4th. Lebron can't inbound the ball and dribble down court and pull up for a shot. He has to drive to the rim or have it be passed to him if hes open to take a long shot. Lebron is so one dimensional

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Not a good night for LeBron and his legacy.

He went into half up by 5 in what is essentially a must-win game, at home, and managed to lose....by double digits.

And I will reiterate this once again, Tyronn Lue is clueless. He doesn't take timeouts when needed. Doesn't make adjustments. And the few times he does adjust, it is far too late. He went away from the small-ball lineup with Jefferson in the 4th quarter and it put them in a huge hole.

 

[hawknation2016]

Curry was unreal.

One game away now from history. What a season to behold. Gotta close it out strong.

 

[Crizilla]

 

[CPHawk]

Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.

 

[hawknation2016]

Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.

I'm trying to figure out how people are blaming that play on Green. Lebron was frustrated that they were losing. He swings his left arm and trips him to knock Green to the floor and then intentionally steps on top of Green's head to prevent him from getting up.

Explain to me what I am missing about that play. I think Lebron is desperate and doing whatever he can to get into Green's head.

[youtube]VkaxOqgeV_o[/youtube]

 

[knownone]

Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.

I'm trying to figure out how people are blaming that play on Green. Lebron was frustrated that they were losing. He swings his left arm and trips him to knock Green to the floor and then intentionally steps on top of Green's head to prevent him from getting up.

Explain to me what I am missing about that play. I think Lebron is desperate and doing whatever he can to get into Green's head.

[youtube]VkaxOqgeV_o[/youtube]

Definitely seemed like Lebron was trying to get Green suspended.

 

[hawknation2016]

Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.

I'm trying to figure out how people are blaming that play on Green. Lebron was frustrated that they were losing. He swings his left arm and trips him to knock Green to the floor and then intentionally steps on top of Green's head to prevent him from getting up.

Explain to me what I am missing about that play. I think Lebron is desperate and doing whatever he can to get into Green's head.

[youtube]VkaxOqgeV_o[/youtube]

Definitely seemed like Lebron was trying to get Green suspended.

I don't blame Lebron either. If the rest of his team had his heart, they would be doing the same thing.

 

[Throwdown]

http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/d ... e=facebook

Green should be suspended for that low blow

 

[hawknation2016]

http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/draymond-green-lebron-james-altercation-game-4?utm_campaign=complexmag&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&sr_share=facebook

Green should be suspended for that low blow

Funny thing is Lebron did not appear to even notice the supposed "low blow" when asked about it after the game. He stepped on top of the dude's head while he was getting up. Honestly, straddling someone's neck is a lot more dangerous than anything Green has done.

Again, I don't blame Lebron for trying to get Green suspended, anymore than I blame him for barking at Curry to try to intimidate him. Lebron is just trying to compete. But let's not ignore the reality that Lebron tripped Green to the floor and then walked over his head.

 

[knownone]

Kobe was a great player, but entirely different from LeBron in style. Kobe wanted to get his first, then have his role guys hit shots on the few opportunities they had. If you recall, those Laker teams after the Shaq trade and before the Gasol trade were not good.. and Kobe certainly didn't help elevate their game.

I think a lot of people (maybe not you) look at assist numbers and assume that means Lebron does more for his team or that Kobe only cares about getting his shots... Kobe played most of his career as the focal point of the triangle offense, Lebron plays in primarily isolation offenses, designed to get him space and allow him to essentially play point guard. The reason this is important, the triangle offense is by design, not going to lead to gaudy assist numbers, why? in the triangle offense Kobe has 2 passing options, he's not asked to go out and create chances like Lebron, he's asked to fill a role in a system designed around his abilities as a scorer, Kobe's job is to score and force teams to double team him in order to open up space for his shooters and big men. This is true for MJ as well, his assists weren't high because that's not how the triangle offense works.

Also..
The 04'-07' Lakers had less talent than any team Lebron James has ever been on. Outside of Odom those teams had virtually no one. Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, all three were the 3rd leading scorer on those Lakers teams, 2 of them were out of the NBA after having career years as starters with the Lakers, Only Luke Walton managed to remain in the NBA as a bench player for the rest of his career.

People like to contrast that to Lebron's first Finals run and to be honest... it's not fair to Kobe. That Cavs team had Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Sasha Pavlovic, obviously not a great lineup but it was flush with proven NBA talent, and it was during a time when the Eastern Conference had basically one good team the Pistons. Kobe happened to be in a stacked Western Conference, people forget that the Suns, Mavericks, and Spurs spent most of the gap between Shaq and Gasol, averaging 60+ wins a season. Meanwhile in the Eastern Conference every team outside of Detroit struggled to get 50 wins.

Lebron does more little things to make his teams better, I don't think he make the players around him any better than Kobe, he just does so much that it masks a lot of his teams deficiencies.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.

Meh, I bet nothing happens to either guy.

 

[knownone]

It would be pretty funny if Lebron got suspended... then people can justifiably say he was a no show in the game.

 

[IndyHawk]

http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/draymond-green-lebron-james-altercation-game-4?utm_campaign=complexmag&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&sr_share=facebook

Green should be suspended for that low blow

Funny thing is Lebron did not appear to even notice the supposed "low blow" when asked about it after the game. He stepped on top of the dude's head while he was getting up. Honestly, straddling someone's neck is a lot more dangerous than anything Green has done.

Again, I don't blame Lebron for trying to get Green suspended, anymore than I blame him for barking at Curry to try to intimidate him. Lebron is just trying to compete. But let's not ignore the reality that Lebron tripped Green to the floor and then walked over his head.

Looked like Green had his arms all tangled into Lebron and when Lebrom moved his arm Green falls to the floor under Lebron.Lebron trys to go over and Green does his hand to the balls thing which is going to get him suspended for 1-2 games.The NBA makes more money the longer the games go and sure I bet they want to help Cleveland have a chance at winning.All this stuff is not fighting,watch the Pistons vs the Bulls in late 80's(The Jordan rules)this stuff today is a joke

 

[253hawk]

Green suspended for game 5. NBA is officially a joke.

 

[Throwdown]

Cuz they suspended him for something he really did?

 

[253hawk]

There's plenty of other things he could have been called for in the playoffs; that little love tap to LeWhine's labia was nothing (and actually deserved for stepping over Green). The NBA desperately wants the series to go for more than just 5 games and rewarded the Cavs for a douche move by the biggest crybaby diva in the sports.