Forget percy harvin, is christine michael in the doghouse?

[hawksfansinceday1]

I'm wondering if Michael very well could contribute for us, but that withholding game minutes is just a motivational thing to ensure he puts in the time and effort to improve on his pass blocking. Pete's talked about how his plan s for personnel are long-term, but I'm definitely no expert on this stuff.

This actually makes some sense to me.

 

[Seeker]

Oh and btw for all those saying "pete said he wasn't good at blocking"
pete also said be picked turbin to return kicks for ball security.
Coaches usually tell fans anything.

 

[Basis4day]

what has turbin done?
I've counted four plays since he started here that halfway looked better than Julius jones on a good day level play (swear that jersey # is cursed).

But you also said to saw Michael improve in pass protection, and had no real evidence to back it up besides a single block in a preseason game.

my actual quote was

"I only saw one game where it actually looked bad (preason).
Typical rookie not catching up to the speed of the NFL sort of stuff.
I see nothing about turbin's block that looks head and shoulders above michael's.
He had a pretty decent block in the green bay game, I was trying to find it but could only find this sweet TD by who else (pete looking a little mad on that play, probably unrelated but pete is usually always jacked up).
http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... f93167f05a"

so this whole "I said I saw one good block as the basis of my whole argument for CM" is a bit overblown.
what I am trying to say is I think petes reason for benching Michael (Eg poor pass protection) was a bit over exaggerated and seemed odd.

Michaels pass protection in the begging was a bit sloppy (as it is for ALL rb starting in a ZBS especially rookies)

and I beg to differ but turbin has not had one bad game or two bad plays but has been mediocre his entire time here (and not just by beastmode standards as that would be unfair).

I know you probably think I'm just another guy jumping on Roberts back because of the fumble but I have been rining the bell for CM since the preseason. as excited as I was to get a guy in there to act as a reliever for marshawn I am the first to admit turbin is not that guy and has been killing us all season.

They have constantly tried to hand the reigns over to this guy to provide some relief for lynch but he always puts us in a bad situation.

You think this is all just about two fumbles?
ask yourself how many times you have this year have you seen an obvious rushing play but marshawn on the sideline?
how many running plays (of any size) have we converted this year without marshawn?

I bet CM has more yards per attempt than Turbin right now.

Your original quote was

CM is in the dog house. there is no way you can look at cm and turbin and say he isn't beating that guy outright.
even his blocking has improved.
This is a case of leftover college football coach residue resulting in some benching

The reason i keep bringing it up is because Pete has specifically said, when asked, that CM struggles in pass protection and that is why he doesn't get more opportunities. You made a claim that you saw improvement in CM's pass protection. I think we can both say that your statement was inaccurate.

Michael will see touches in his future. He is a great runner. But in this system, Pete needs to trust the RB to pick up a block. Michael does have more YPC, but again, that has nothing to do with Pass protection.

Which is why you CAN realistically say that Turbin is beating Michael out. Because it is about a lot more than who can get more yards running in the 4th quarter when the game is decided.

 

[Basis4day]

Oh and btw for all those saying "pete said he wasn't good at blocking"
pete also said be picked turbin to return kicks for ball security.
Coaches usually tell fans anything.

Check the stats. Until the Cards game, Turbin had no career fumbles. It was accurate at the time.

 

[Seeker]

He has been running with the ball like every time since he has started at KR and has been dodging bullets that finally caught him this game. ask david Wilson what happens when teams know you have a case of the fumblitis.
TBH fumbles happen, im not even that mad at those (they cost us T.O.P but not points). im more concerned with the fact that we have a guy at KR who falls down on his own with wide open space in front of him (We have all but forgotten that return because of the two fumbles and honestly that missed opportunity may have been even more damaging).

if you are a kick return guy you either a "he is risky but gives us a chance to make a big play" type player or a "he may not break one but he is safe with the ball and gets us decent/good yards"

I was okay with him being a colum B kinda kick returner but now he can't even do that. Lets not act like he has been good up until yesterday. The niners kicked it to him on the 5 yard line (daring him to run it) and he still fell at the 21.

 

[Basis4day]

He has been running with the ball like every time since he has started at KR and has been dodging bullets that finally caught him this game. ask david Wilson what happens when teams know you have a case of the fumblitis.
TBH fumbles happen, im not even that mad at those (they cost us T.O.P but not points). im more concerned with the fact that we have a guy at KR who falls down on his own with wide open space in front of him (We have all but forgotten that return because of the two fumbles and honestly that missed opportunity may have been even more damaging).

if you are a kick return guy you either a "he is risky but gives us a chance to make a big play" type player or a "he may not break one but he is safe with the ball and gets us decent/good yards"

I was okay with him being a colum B kinda kick returner but now he can't even do that. Lets not act like he has been good up until yesterday. The niners kicked it to him on the 5 yard line (daring him to run it) and he still fell at the 21.

But it's not like Turbin as KR was the plan. It became the reality. You need to play the hand you're delt.

They decided to cut Leon. Harvin was the KR and had surgery.. They took Kearse out because of concussion risks. They have CB suspensions which removed Thurmond from the equation and gave Lane an increased workload. Baldwin has been the most reliable receiver so they don't want him getting injured. And they don't always have the room to carry 5 RB/FB on the 46 man gameday roster because CM isn't trusted to block the way that Lynch, MRob, Coleman and Turbin are.

When you take all of that into consideration, it makes sense why Turbin (who had no fumbles yet) was out there. Now include the fumbles, and we'll see what decision is made for KR on sunday.

 

[Seeker]

I don't have a problem with the fact that turbin was chosen given the circumstances (kearse was a bit fumbly bumbly too but he fit that Column A I was talking about so the trade off was realistic).

However, if anything your argument makes even more of a case for CM in that situation.
Wouldn't it make sense to have your 3rd string RB with explosive speed, great cuts and poor blocking skills in a position that requires speed, cuts and no blocking?

I understood and tolerated turbin back there when he was the "I don't get yards but I don't fumble" guy at KR, the second he lost that (and we all know teams are gonna go at him hard now) I don't see it for him anymore in that spot.

Saddest thing is he did it to himself. he runs about five yards than falls down. its like his upper body is too buff to run (is that even possible in football? to be too buff??)

even in running plays turbin is good to get you that one cut and done (similar to a less skilled MJD), that is fine for an alternating running back, but so much of offense relies on great field position which I think we took for granted. letting Washington go thinking we would get harvin did hurt us, but pete, just put CM in already.

 

[chris98251]

I have a thought and it goes back to his college days, wasn't he injured and came back and was not quite the same, I know he has shown flashes here of the talent we beleive he has, but are they bulking him up for NFL size players to protect him since they have that luxury?

 

[Tokadub]

Dangit my internet just crapped out right as I was about to post so I lost everything so I'll just summarize.

1) Christine Michael seems to be a playmaker who can be a real difference maker or even win you the game like Lynch can or what Gore just did to us. Turbin isn't, career long 26 yards after 150 attempts.

2) Christine Michael is averaging more yards per carry than Lynch or Turbin doesn't mean much since he has barely any carries but he has performed when given a chance.

3) Turbin is a good backup RB and I think he gets his reps because the coaches really like his character. I get the feeling they don't feel as positive about CM. It wouldn't be the first time the more talented guy doesn't get to play or even gets fired because the boss likes someone else more who is more obedient, whether in football or life.

But watching some Christine Michael highlights I have a really hard time understanding why he doesn't get more chances or why people wouldn't want to give him any.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCVqxFeWFoU

 

[Seeker]

Pretty much agree with everything you said Tokadub. I know I've been riding turbo pretty hard but mainly from the fact that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes (that first near fumble would have had me carry the ball like Zach miller over the middle).

He isn't that bad at backup RB and does what he is supposed to persay, but do we want a guy whose best job is "give marshawn a breather or two" or do we want a guy who can actually be a weapon when marshawn is off the field. I understand percy is gonna be that guy when he gets right and turbo will be a perfect 2rb then to pad snaps between the two of them. but now, we need offense. at least a better KR which would be appropriate use of CM skills given his blocking weakness.

 

[Ozzy]

Good points and I'm inclined to believe they just like Turbin for whatever reason. It makes zero sense to me that Michael isn't being used and I have a feeling that when he is finally used it will only fuel the argument that he should of been used sooner. Coaches make mistake and for whatever reason I believe they are making one now.

And I will say it again, I love this staff. just getting that out of the way.

 

[canfan]

Whens the last time a 2nd round pick has been healthy throughout a season, yet not even given a look (let alone suit up) during the course of a year?

I mean the guy averaged 5 ypc and even had a couple nice receptions IIRC in the preseason, and I realize its been brought up before, but the fact that Pete mentioned it today has me wondering if theres something else going on there.

Golden Tate comes to mind. He was inactive for a large part of his first season despite the obvious talent he flashed in training camp. He couldn't be counted on to be where he was supposed to be, so Pete decided he was "supposed to be" on the bench. CM is likely going through the same growth process. I have long ago stopped second guessing this staff on how they develop their talent...their track record is too good. :thirishdrinkers:

 

[Seeker]

Golden tate also had a bit of a rep of being "entitled" when coming to the NFL and pete wanted to make sure humility got through.

I am fine with that when you are a team making 4000 transactions a day and trying to establish an identity.

When you are a superbowl caliber team with an ever expanding payroll you don't have times to throw a season away to teach lessons.