Fire Bevell (and Cable): Stat Edition

SomersetHawk

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STAT #1

There's a crazy stat that gets thrown around that gets attributed to Russ: Only once have we won when the opponent scored more than 24 points (not an unbelievably high score given the average losing score in the NFL is 18). That stat absolutely has to be at least shared by Bevell (if not solely attributed him) and his 'schemed' slower starts.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ThomasGower/status/745397038188224512[/tweet]

The win came against Pittsburgh last season when we beat them 39-30. And in typical rabbit out of a hat fashion we amassed 0 points in the first quarter and went into the second half behind before Russ hit Doug for 2TDs in the last 8 minutes as we put up 19 4th quarter points to win it.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pfref/status/775104277031292928[/tweet]

Stats don't just tell one story, and Russ's incredulous 2nd half and 4th quarter comeback record should both stand as testament to his clutchness, but also to the detriment of our offense's inability to function through the first part of the game.

Sure, we like to 'feel teams out' and all that crap, but without the best defense in the league, there's no way we achieve this.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ThatBayleeGirl/status/562097171479003137[/tweet]

Bevell riding on the coattails of the defense STAT #2 (For those who throw out the 'super bowl win' argument in defense of DB)

In our Super Bowl winning season, we allowed 14.4 points per game, pretty nuts! The 10th best defense that year (the Pats) gave up over 21 per game. Say that we had the 10th best defense that year (still comfortably above average), we'd have gone 8-8 if you adjust the point difference.

Of course, that argument is futile, you can't account for what would have actually happened, and Russ may have had to pull out some rabbits a bit sooner. But let's just recap some of those would-be-losses to find out what really went down.

Week 1, Carolina:
Russ throws a late 35 yard TD pass to Jermaine Kearse after we put up 6 points in the opening 3 quarters.

Houston Week 4: Down 20-3 at the half, we could get next to nothing going on offense aside from some strong running from Lynch and neat scrambling from Russ (who could only put up 123 yards through the air). In the end, we needed a Richard Sherman pick 6 to win that game.

Tennessee Week 5: We went into the 4th quarter level, were helped out with a Richard Sherman pick, and eventually pulled away late with Marshawn getting to 2TDs on the ground.

St Louis week 8: 139 yards through the air yet we somehow pull it out 14-9 as Russ throws for 2TDs.

Tampa Bay week 9: Down 21 points to the 4-12 Bucs (with neither the defense or offense covering themselves in glory), a Russell Wilson hurry-up drive led to a Doug Baldwin TD with less than 2 minutes left to tie the game. A Hauschka FG seals it in overtime.

Notable mentions to a couple of really ugly offensive performances in losses against the 49ers and the Cards following this, where we amassed 19 and 10 points respectively.

In too many instances the gameplan goes down the crapper and Russ, Lynch, the defense, or a combination of all three end up carrying the team through.

We win in spite of Bevell, not because of him.


When Marshawn walked, Cable should have too. The man's given us great success in the running game, and his style blended pretty terrifically with Marshawn's, but you can't continue to build an O-line around Christine Michael and Thomas Rawls whilst hanging our best and most expensive player, out to dry

I know it's not their intention to get Russ hurt, but when your O-line guy has never coached an above average pass blocking line it's just dumb to leave the health of our most important player in his hands, or Sowell's, or Webb's.

STAT #3

A QB was sacked an average of two times per game last season (2.3 to be precise) and unsurprisingly the Seahawks allowed more than average, with only five teams allowing more than us (we kept some high level of company with the Jags, 49ers, Titans and Browns being four of those worse off than us).

Admittedly, through the first half of the season Russ had among the slowest release of all QB's (only a handful were slower), and whether you attribute this to Russ's cautiousness, our wide receivers not getting open, or the scheming (or all three) this stat corrected itself as from week 10 onwards Russ was slinging the ball out slower than only three QBs in the entire NFL. He was probably closest to Brady from the pocket, with his scrambling ability negating an even faster average snap-to-throw time.

In keeping with Russ's quicker release, our average sacks per game came down to the league average, and we even managed a sack-free game against the Baltimore Ravens. Woot woot!

Russ's pocket ability mixed with his houdini-like escapability should see us consistently near the bottom of the sack-rate, yet if we're picking holes we were still only average during this stretch to our exit against Carolina.

Still, look what Russ is able to achieve when we up the tempo and let Russ do more.

With that, it must be said that in three of the games to close out our season we were above average (1 sack or less).

STAT #4:

In games where Russell has been sacked once or less, he's 17-1 with a 113 QB rating. 17-1!!!!! That one defeat coming in the agonizing game at Detroit in his first season where he put us ahead with our last drive of the game, only for Titus Young to score with 20 seconds remaining.

Simply said, if you don't sack him, you don't win, it's why teams like St Louis put such a premium on getting to the him.

The Panthers went into last season with a makeshift O-line yet Cam Newton went 7 games being sacked once or less (we had 4, and unsurprisingly all came from week 8 beyond). Denver's O-line wasn't considered great yet Peyton Manning went 6 games being sacked once or less (and he missed 7 games!).

STAT #5

Our running game was not paramount to our success in the stretch, with us throwing for 11 Tds and running for 3 (one of which was Russ) in the three games following week 10 where Russ was sacked once or less. (This was where Russ went on his tear-up).

Whilst our running game was successful down the stretch last season (with Rawls central to this) explosive passing plays came more frequently and before explosive running plays. There's no doubt Rawls was a huge miss after he got injured, and our best hope of finding the form of the second half of last season is with a healthy Rawls, but our pass game opened up the running game plenty last year as our offensive identity shifted.

Still, you need adequate run blockers to take advantage of these opportunities, and we have regressed in this area with the player we lost on the O-line. That's not on Cable, and the fact he's had so little to work with can't count against him.

You can't help but feel this team still needs to freshen things up on offense. Cable needed to go when Marshawn did, and Bevell has ridden on the coattails of a combination of Russ's 4th quarter magic and our defense's ability to keep our opponent to an attainable score for far too long now.

We've played at our floor too often and what we've seen we're capable of when we're able to protect Russ should lead us to seek a coach who can help us achieve this on a more consistent basis. Whilst I'm hopeful of Ifedi working out, I'm sceptical about our talent evaluation on the O-line and our ability to maximise our guys' potential. Carp looked solid for the Jets last year, Okung has looked All-pro for Denver so far, whilst it took a last resort move for us to get anything like value out of Justin Britt (and that experiment is still young).

With all said I do think we'll be 'just fine' this season, but we could be so much better. We should probably accept that Bevell's not going to be fired for example, but he signed an extension in 2013 and I'd assume that was up at the end of the season.

Time to let him walk.
 

HawkinNY

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Sad thing is no matter what happens we are stuck with bevell.

If we could just play 4 quarters on offense we would dominate. But we don't. And won't. So we will just have to accept the fact we won't have home field advantage or make another Super Bowl in the Pete Carroll era. Such a wast of a great def.


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Siouxhawk

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So I'm confused ... you criticize Bevell for the slow starts, but Russ gets the entire credit for the comebacks?
You do realize the overall genesis of Pete's gameplan is to tee off early on the defense, wear them down and then storm past them in the second half? It's a concept that's helped us win 65% of our games over a 4-year stretch, 2 NFC titles and a Super Bowl.
But you're not buying it? Tough crowd. I really hope you can arrange a sit-down with Pete to change his mind about the concepts he's adapted through 40 years of coaching. And please don't forget to write back with his reactions.
 
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SomersetHawk

SomersetHawk

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Siouxhawk":1cxiilkh said:
So I'm confused ... you criticize Bevell for the slow starts, but Russ gets the entire credit for the comebacks?
You do realize the overall genesis of Pete's gameplan is to tee off early on the defense, wear them down and then storm past them in the second half? It's a concept that's helped us win 65% of our games over a 4-year stretch, 2 NFC titles and a Super Bowl.
But you're not buying it? Tough crowd. I really hope you can arrange a sit-down with Pete to change his mind about the concepts he's adapted through 40 years of coaching. And please don't forget to write back with his reactions.

Hi Sioux,

Sorry to confuse you. I don't have anything but praise for our defensive philosophy, don't why the stabilisers only come off on offense when we're put in danger.

Also, our offense at the minute is not good enough to wear a defense down, it's why the Rams tee'd off on us all game, we have to adapt that philosophy, a little like we did down the stretch last year wear we set the tone on offense and scored the majority of our points in the first half of four of our six wins to close out the regular season.

Thanks,

Somerset
xoxo
 

themunn

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I got as far as the nonsense 24 point thing. Can I get a stat on what the league average win rate is for teams that concede more than 24 points.

Believe it or not, the more points you concede, the more likely you are to lose - and for teams that play defensive football, it's going to be even more pronounced.

Case in point - the Denver Broncos have gone 0-8 in their last 8 games where the opposition scored more than 24 points.

In fact, even in their record breaking year in 2013 they went 4-4 when conceding more than 24 points. Let's make that clear - even a team who scored more points in a single season than any other team EVER has lost 50% of the games in which its defense conceded more than 24 points.
 
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SomersetHawk

SomersetHawk

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themunn":27ba5d0y said:
I got as far as the nonsense 24 point thing. Can I get a stat on what the league average win rate is for teams that concede more than 24 points.

Believe it or not, the more points you concede, the more likely you are to lose - and for teams that play defensive football, it's going to be even more pronounced.

Case in point - the Denver Broncos have gone 0-8 in their last 8 games where the opposition scored more than 24 points.

In fact, even in their record breaking year in 2013 they went 4-4 when conceding more than 24 points. Let's make that clear - even a team who scored more points in a single season than any other team EVER has lost 50% of the games in which its defense conceded more than 24 points.

4-4 is pretty great. The Panthers went 4-0 last season. 1-13 is miserable.
 

OkieHawk

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themunn":3m3f62xy said:
I got as far as the nonsense 24 point thing. Can I get a stat on what the league average win rate is for teams that concede more than 24 points.

Believe it or not, the more points you concede, the more likely you are to lose - and for teams that play defensive football, it's going to be even more pronounced.

Case in point - the Denver Broncos have gone 0-8 in their last 8 games where the opposition scored more than 24 points.

In fact, even in their record breaking year in 2013 they went 4-4 when conceding more than 24 points. Let's make that clear - even a team who scored more points in a single season than any other team EVER has lost 50% of the games in which its defense conceded more than 24 points.

So, you got to the first point, think it's silly, and then agree with it? Maybe you should try to re-read the OP.
 

Laloosh

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Darrell Bevell: 6' 1''
Russell Wilson: 5 ' 10''

Clearly it's Wilson's fault.
 

Siouxhawk

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SomersetHawk":xc8rg3q0 said:
Siouxhawk":xc8rg3q0 said:
So I'm confused ... you criticize Bevell for the slow starts, but Russ gets the entire credit for the comebacks?
You do realize the overall genesis of Pete's gameplan is to tee off early on the defense, wear them down and then storm past them in the second half? It's a concept that's helped us win 65% of our games over a 4-year stretch, 2 NFC titles and a Super Bowl.
But you're not buying it? Tough crowd. I really hope you can arrange a sit-down with Pete to change his mind about the concepts he's adapted through 40 years of coaching. And please don't forget to write back with his reactions.

Hi Sioux,

Sorry to confuse you. I don't have anything but praise for our defensive philosophy, don't why the stabilisers only come off on offense when we're put in danger.

Also, our offense at the minute is not good enough to wear a defense down, it's why the Rams tee'd off on us all game, we have to adapt that philosophy, a little like we did down the stretch last year wear we set the tone on offense and scored the majority of our points in the first half of four of our six wins to close out the regular season.

Thanks,

Somerset
xoxo
Hi Somerset,

You are right in the sense that we may have to change our identity on offense. What you laid out has to do with our past when we had Marshawn. With him, obviously that concept was widely successful. But the Marshawn Lynch types don't grow on trees. Having said that, I think Pete still wants to get his run-first concept going with Rawls, C-Mike, Procise and Collins. Sure it's been rough in the early going, but are we ready to completely abandon it at this point? Especially with our talented run-option quarterback a step slow with a bum ankle?
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if our staff was huddling right now and discussing that philosophy ... because when you think about it, it really is an all-or-nothing philosophy. If you're going to grind them early with the running game, you have to stick with it to make it effective in the second half. If we go back to what was working last year, our pass pro had better be sealed up, as it was when we transitioned to it in the second half of the season. The catalyst there is Russ getting his speed and elusiveness back so that he can make an aggressive defense pay if he needs to bail from the pocket.
So yeah, we may be going through 2 big transitions -- offensive philosophy and forging a line with 4 new players and a fifth position switch. Is it any wonder we're having some growing pains, Somerset?
 

Sgt. Largent

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SomersetHawk":dcvumbu3 said:
Also, our offense at the minute is not good enough to wear a defense down, it's why the Rams tee'd off on us all game, we have to adapt that philosophy, a little like we did down the stretch last year wear we set the tone on offense and scored the majority of our points in the first half of four of our six wins to close out the regular season.

You're right, it's not............but why is everyone blaming Bevell instead of the obvious reasons the offense stinks.

- Russell's hurt
- Rawls is coming back from a major injury
- Michael can't be trusted with the ball, and has to be told 2-3 times a play where to line up
- We don't have one TE that can block
- Arguably the worst O-line in franchise history
- WR's drops and now injuries all across the unit

Here are the facts, when healthy and an cohesive O-line the Hawks were the #4 offense in the league last year, with Bevell. This is for a team that runs the ball and spends most of it's salary cap on the defense.

Is Bevell the best coordinator in the league. Nope, but this if football, everyone keeps trying to blame one part of a much bigger problem.........and from what I've seen so far this year? Bevell is the least of this offense's problems. I'd rank the problems in this order.

1. O-line is atrocious
2. Russell's ankle
3. RB dysfunction
4. Penalties and missed assignments
5. Ifedi's injury
6. WR drops

You gotta get down to 7 or 8 on my list before you get to the playcalling. Cause the FACT is when this offense is healthy and rolling it's one of the top units in the entire league. Again, with Bevell.
 

themunn

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SomersetHawk":fm1gshpn said:
4-4 is pretty great. The Panthers went 4-0 last season. 1-13 is miserable.

Yet another reason why it's another pointless stat that indicates nothing.

Panthers went 4-0, Broncos went 0-3. Broncos won the superbowl.

If you really want a stat like that to illustrate offensive dysfunction it should be the losses where the opposition scored LESS than 24 points.

We've lost 22 games under Russell Wilson - in 13 of them the opposition scored more than 24 points, in 9 of them the opposition scored LESS than 24 points and we still lost. On Sunday we only needed to score 10 points to win. THERE's your argument for a poor offense.
 

SeAhAwKeR4life

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Sgt. Largent":1yfixlhe said:
SomersetHawk":1yfixlhe said:
Also, our offense at the minute is not good enough to wear a defense down, it's why the Rams tee'd off on us all game, we have to adapt that philosophy, a little like we did down the stretch last year wear we set the tone on offense and scored the majority of our points in the first half of four of our six wins to close out the regular season.

You're right, it's not............but why is everyone blaming Bevell instead of the obvious reasons the offense stinks.

- Russell's hurt
- Rawls is coming back from a major injury
- Michael can't be trusted with the ball, and has to be told 2-3 times a play where to line up
- We don't have one TE that can block
- Arguably the worst O-line in franchise history
- WR's drops and now injuries all across the unit

Here are the facts, when healthy and an cohesive O-line the Hawks were the #4 offense in the league last year, with Bevell. This is for a team that runs the ball and spends most of it's salary cap on the defense.

Is Bevell the best coordinator in the league. Nope, but this if football, everyone keeps trying to blame one part of a much bigger problem.........and from what I've seen so far this year? Bevell is the least of this offense's problems. I'd rank the problems in this order.

1. O-line is atrocious
2. Russell's ankle
3. RB dysfunction
4. Penalties and missed assignments
5. Ifedi's injury
6. WR drops

You gotta get down to 7 or 8 on my list before you get to the playcalling. Cause the FACT is when this offense is healthy and rolling it's one of the top units in the entire league. Again, with Bevell.

How do Bevell apologists get past the not using the weapons we do have (Jimmy Graham, allegedly playing for the Seahawks), using Collins up the gut into the teeth of the defense, (TWICE!), empty sets on 3rd and short? How is any of that attributable to our issues? It's simply bad coaching, and inability to think creatively and an unwillingness to use player strengths. :34853_doh:
 

scutterhawk

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Siouxhawk":1uyjdcga said:
So I'm confused ... you criticize Bevell for the slow starts, but Russ gets the entire credit for the comebacks?
You do realize the overall genesis of Pete's gameplan is to tee off early on the defense, wear them down and then storm past them in the second half? It's a concept that's helped us win 65% of our games over a 4-year stretch, 2 NFC titles and a Super Bowl.
But you're not buying it? Tough crowd. I really hope you can arrange a sit-down with Pete to change his mind about the concepts he's adapted through 40 years of coaching. And please don't forget to write back with his reactions.

He was showing that Bevell relies too much on Russell Wilson pulling his fat out of the fire, and that there's a lack of imagination on his part, because teams like the Rams have his number, and that other teams have started to adopt their philosophy.
A really good example of this trending, was the 1st playoff game against the Panthers last Season....They took advantage of the Seahawks slow start, feel out menu, Seattle's come back was too little too late, as the Panthers used the Seahawks own game plan against them....The Panthers then went into the Super Bowl thinking that they could use that same formula against the Bronco's, the Bronco's came out swinging, and stayed on the throttle for all four Quarters ( like Bevell, Cable and Carroll need to start doing )
Pete Carroll's system is very, very good, but it can ALWAYS be improved on ( Always Compete eh Pete? )
Pete, Daryl, and Tom have come to rely on Russell Wilson to work his magic, and win in 4th quarter fist-fights, well now they KNOW that putting a shit O-Line out there to protect a hobbled Russell Wilson, is what got them in their quandary.
Pete has to know that he has a deficit in game planning, and he also has to make the adjustments in Coaching to compensate... And after seeing his star Quarterback get his ankle stepped on last week by Suh, and then get slammed and drilled by Donald, that he can't afford to let Russell Wilson continue playing with his ass out in the wind.
I'm not saying that the blame is Daryl Bevell's alone, Tom Cable, & Pete Carroll are also have a fair share of it also.
Like the TV Commercial, "Why Monitor A problem, If You Aren't Going To Fix It"
 

Sgt. Largent

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SeAhAwKeR4life":11czddkj said:
How do Bevell apologists get past the not using the weapons we do have (Jimmy Graham, allegedly playing for the Seahawks), using Collins up the gut into the teeth of the defense, (TWICE!), empty sets on 3rd and short? How is any of that attributable to our issues? It's simply bad coaching, and inability to think creatively and an unwillingness to use player strengths. :34853_doh:

I'm not a Bevell apologist. I'm a level headed fan that doesn't blame our coordinator for a complex problem that involves many more variables than one.
 

scutterhawk

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Sgt. Largent":p47k5dz5 said:
SomersetHawk":p47k5dz5 said:
Also, our offense at the minute is not good enough to wear a defense down, it's why the Rams tee'd off on us all game, we have to adapt that philosophy, a little like we did down the stretch last year wear we set the tone on offense and scored the majority of our points in the first half of four of our six wins to close out the regular season.

You're right, it's not............but why is everyone blaming Bevell instead of the obvious reasons the offense stinks.

- Russell's hurt
- Rawls is coming back from a major injury
- Michael can't be trusted with the ball, and has to be told 2-3 times a play where to line up
- We don't have one TE that can block
- Arguably the worst O-line in franchise history
- WR's drops and now injuries all across the unit

Here are the facts, when healthy and an cohesive O-line the Hawks were the #4 offense in the league last year, with Bevell. This is for a team that runs the ball and spends most of it's salary cap on the defense.

Is Bevell the best coordinator in the league. Nope, but this if football, everyone keeps trying to blame one part of a much bigger problem.........and from what I've seen so far this year? Bevell is the least of this offense's problems. I'd rank the problems in this order.

1. O-line is atrocious
2. Russell's ankle
3. RB dysfunction
4. Penalties and missed assignments
5. Ifedi's injury
6. WR drops

You gotta get down to 7 or 8 on my list before you get to the playcalling. Cause the FACT is when this offense is healthy and rolling it's one of the top units in the entire league. Again, with Bevell.
I dunno man, You have to insert a play designer that has dialed up some slow to develop plays in there between #1 & #6, Realistically?, Bevell is deserving of his SHARE of the blame.....He isn't Mr. Teflon.
 

bandiger

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These types of articles is why I get fustrated with Cable and his "stable of converts/guys".
http://www.canalstreetchronicles.co...grading-saints-offensive-line-against-raiders


Just to prove my point that releasing a guy with history of being a great lineman is a mistake for crap like Sowell and Webb. I guess cause they "play" tackles though. I'd rather just give Gilliam the chance at this point and had Ifedi at RT where he played most of his college career. Giving Evans the RG spot by default. You gave up on damn Okung for a reason so stick with the plan of Gilliam at LT. Just a bunch of foolish bullshit on how they handle this problem. Keep the musical chair lineman I guess. :stirthepot:

Seriously investing in young guys fine but really get vets that have been proven resume of good play man.
 

Sgt. Largent

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scutterhawk":2bq0n6ve said:
I dunno man, You have to insert a play designer that has dialed up some slow to develop plays in there between #1 & #6, Realistically?, Bevell is deserving of his SHARE of the blame.....He isn't Mr. Teflon.

Of course he's deserving of his share. That's my point, Bevell's share...........as in not 100% of the share.

I also don't get the slow to develop plays, our O-line and RB blocking isn't good enough to do anything other than quick runs, quick slants and quick sideline routes. Russell would be in the hospital if Bevell called any slow to develop 7 step drops.
 

Uncle Si

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Sgt. Largent":1jqzo190 said:
SeAhAwKeR4life":1jqzo190 said:
How do Bevell apologists get past the not using the weapons we do have (Jimmy Graham, allegedly playing for the Seahawks), using Collins up the gut into the teeth of the defense, (TWICE!), empty sets on 3rd and short? How is any of that attributable to our issues? It's simply bad coaching, and inability to think creatively and an unwillingness to use player strengths. :34853_doh:

I'm not a Bevell apologist. I'm a level headed fan that doesn't blame our coordinator for a complex problem that involves many more variables than one.


Our coordinator, however, is supposed to solve that complex problem and really has yet to show an ability to do so. I appreciate Somerset's detailed examples as well. It may show that Bevell and Pete had a plan for wearing down defenses over the course of a game, using Lynch, power running and a stifling D to keep games close while we wear down teams. That philosophy seems to need some tinkering.
 
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