Duane Brown vs Sheldon Richardson

[Schuemansky]

I am 100% with the ones that think that Sheldon Richardson and Duane Brown from a player quality standpoint are worth a lot more the draft picks paid for them.
The problem will be getting everybody under the cap over the next few years.
We want to hold both of them, we would like to get a deal done with Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett, I guess we would like to resign PRich, Blair Walsh, Deshaun Shead, maybe Luke Willson and Bradley McDougald.
I didn't even mention new contracts for Jimmy Graham, Luke Joeckel, Oday Aboushi or Eddy Lacy.
Playing around with the calculator at overthecap.com one realizes that even with letting go all of the last mentioned we could not hold all the players above.
So that is why draft picks are so valuable in the medium to long run.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I am 100% with the ones that think that Sheldon Richardson and Duane Brown from a player quality standpoint are worth a lot more the draft picks paid for them.
The problem will be getting everybody under the cap over the next few years.
We want to hold both of them, we would like to get a deal done with Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett, I guess we would like to resign PRich, Blair Walsh, Deshaun Shead, maybe Luke Willson and Bradley McDougald.

This is true.

I would say that in the case of Richardson, he's an opportunity to reinvent our defensive structure.

From a roster building standpoint, a GM is always going to be loathe to sign that third contract. It's always expensive. And in most cases, those players start to succumb to injury and age related decline. In cap terms, it's bad money.

Seattle is approaching that third contract threshold with their core players. And some of these guys are going to have to be relieved. It's always tough to do with players that you've attached to. But it happens for every team that has success. At some point, age takes everything away. The best run organizations make sure that they keep plowing talent into the mix and keep the roster fresh age wise.

Seattle, like it or not, is in a position where they have to start finding 'the next' guys to step up. Griffin is looking like a natural successor for Sherman. Earl has no equal, but I suspect that if Malik Hooker fell to us at 25 last year, we would not have traded down. Chancellor is just as singularly unique. No way you fully replicate him. But Delano Hill is a player to watch closely. He looks like at least an acceptable player in that role.

Clark and Richardson would be an acceptable succession plan for Avril/Bennett. Not that either of those players aren't still playing at a high level. But the reality is, if we wait that long, then it could take years before we have the opportunity to replenish the next DL stars. Circumstance is such that it looks like from a medium term roster position we may have to let some guys go a year or two before we have to. I hope not though. I'd like them to end their careers here and benefit from playing alongside the next stars.

I fully expect there to be a lot of big surprise moves this offseason in terms of guys we allow to walk. I expect it to hurt. And I expect there to be significant mourning on this board for guys that are let go too early.

 

[mikeak]

I didn't even mention new contracts for [player removed] Luke Joeckel, Oday Aboushi or Eddy Lacy.
.

for good reasons

 

[The Breh]

Yes I get it the draft picks may not have panned out but you HAVE TO build your roster with a mix of expensive players and cheap players. The cheap players are supposed to come from the draft - if you give away your draft picks how do you get quality cheaper players?

McDowell, Jones, Carson, Griffin, Darboh all appear to be heir apparents in training. Just from the last draft.
Reed, Clark, McEvoy, McKissick, Vannett, Fant and Lockett are still on cheap contracts and getting burn.
We're fine and could certainly use those picks in the future on un-established players by throwing the dice. But we're getting studs in positions of extreme need that we can use now and can help groom our up and comers.
I got no problem investing those "what could be" picks from the future into players who we know what we're getting from the jump.

 

[A-Dog]

The Hawks are in great shape for next season. QB, O-Line, D-Line, and DB are all in great shape with no critical needs, assuming no major injuries for the rest of the season.

Re-signing Sheldon Richardson is key, but if a contract can't be worked out, the Seahawks have the option of using the franchise tag, which will cost in the neighborhood of $14M, which would be about a $6M increase over his current salary. Graham could also be re-signed, but likely wouldn't command any more than he's currently paid.

This is how I see our needs next season:

RB: Depending on whether Carson can come back at full strength, this position may be critical. This is a position that could be addressed with our first pick, and given our depth across the roster, I wouldn't mind trading up in the draft to get the right player.

Edge/SAM LB: Avril could be gone next year. Even if he stays, he's getting older. Dwight Freeney might be playing his last season, and Marcus Smith is a UFA in 2018. Given that, losing Frank Clark for any significant amount of time would be crippling for the pass rush. A SAM LB who can switch to DE on passing downs (a la Bruce Irvin) would make the defense that much better. Really wish the Hawks would have drafted T.J. Watt (4 sacks, 4 PD, 3 TFL so far) instead of going after McDowell, but oh well. If Carson comes back strong the Seahawks address this with their top pick.

TE: A lot here will depend on whether Graham and/or Willson are re-signed. The good news is neither will command a significant raise over what they're getting. Also, Swoopes (currently on the PS) shows promise as a receiving TE.

WR: Re-signing Paul Richardson is important but not critical. A lot could depend on Darboh's development the rest of the year, as well as whether Graham is re-signed. It will be interesting to see what Richardson commands given his injury history.

So, an ideal offseason would be to:

1) Re-sign Sheldon Richardson
2) Re-sign Paul Richardson
3) Re-sign Jimmy Graham
4) Re-sign Luke Willson
7) Re-sign Blair Walsh
5) Extend Duane Brown
6) Healthy Chris Carson
7) Draft an EDGE/SAM with the #1 pick

During the 2018 season the team will need to make decisions on whether to extend some key players who are set to be UFAs in 2019. I imagine what happens on the field the rest of this year and in to 2018 will determine what direction the team goes:

Earl Thomas
Richard Sherman
KJ Wright
Frank Clark
Tyler Lockett

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I didn't even mention new contracts for Jimmy Graham, Luke Joeckel, Oday Aboushi or Eddy Lacy..

That's cause none of these guys will be here, along with Avril, Lacy and possibly Kam.

There isn't enough cap space if we're going to offer long term deals to Sheldon and Brown............which we HAVE to now. Not only because they play two of the most important positions on the field, and play them well. But you've used precious draft picks to acquire them. So we can't let either go.

 

[Seymour]

Signing Graham is FAR from an ideal situation. We need a TE that can block. We are wasting way too much money for what we get from him, Pete and Bevell don't use a TE near enough in our scheme, and he is part of the run game problem.

 

[A-Dog]

Signing Graham is FAR from an ideal situation. We need a TE that can block. We are wasting way too much money for what we get from him, Pete and Bevell don't use a TE near enough in our scheme, and he is part of the run game problem.

Well, two questions:

1) How much will Graham cost?

2) Who could we get to replace him?

I agree with you that we could use a good all-around TE. One possibility would be Austin Sefarian-Jenkins, who supposedly has quit drinking and focused a lot on his blocking. Receiving-wise, he's have a very good year. Perhaps the ideal situation would be to a) sign Graham for a bit less than he's currently making b) sign ASJ, and c) let Willson walk.

Even if we do add another TE, Graham could be used primarily as a receiver if re-signed - the Seahawks lack big receivers and Graham can fill that void. The addition of Duane Brown could facilitate using him more in this manner.

 

[Seymour]

Signing Graham is FAR from an ideal situation. We need a TE that can block. We are wasting way too much money for what we get from him, Pete and Bevell don't use a TE near enough in our scheme, and he is part of the run game problem.

Well, two questions:

1) How much will Graham cost?

2) Who could we get to replace him?

I agree with you that we could use a good all-around TE. One possibility would be Austin Sefarian-Jenkins, who supposedly has quit drinking and focused a lot on his blocking. Receiving-wise, he's have a very good year. Perhaps the ideal situation would be to a) sign Graham for a bit less than he's currently making b) sign ASJ, and c) let Willson walk.

Even if we do add another TE, Graham could be used primarily as a receiver if re-signed - the Seahawks lack big receivers and Graham can fill that void. The addition of Duane Brown could facilitate using him more in this manner.

They can be found. This year we could have had Martellus Bennett for 7M (Graham 10M), and the year we traded for Graham I believe he was also available. He fits what we do WAY better than Graham. If we sign Richardson (Paul), have Lockett and Baldwin, then even draft an excellent blocking TE and sign Willson who is pretty cheap.

 

[mikeak]

...

Graham could also be re-signed, but likely wouldn't command any more than he's currently paid.

....

The good news is neither will command a significant raise over what they're getting.

I guess I am confused (as it relates to the CAP) on why it is good news that they don't command more than they are already making

We don't have much room at all for next year's cap and the guys that are FA after this year are not accounted for. So if they make more or less next year vs this year is not as relevant as if they make a significant amount.

Graham, Richardson, Richardson will all command a significant amount. Yes it can be lowered with signing bonus etc

I am not really disagreeing with your post I am just saying that if they make the same amount (which for Graham is $10M this year) or not doesn't positively impact the Cap number.....

Currently we are spending $156M against the Cap - question will be who is cut, who is re-signed to spread their money and what does the Cap change to

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Graham, Richardson, Richardson will all command a significant amount. Yes it can be lowered with signing bonus etc

I am not really disagreeing with your post I am just saying that if they make the same amount (which for Graham is $10M this year) or not doesn't positively impact the Cap number.....

1. I don't think Paul Richardson is going to cost a lot, more than likely a Jermaine Kearse 2-3 year deal. No one inside or outside Seattle is going to give Richardson a monster contract, not for a VERY slight WR that has a huge upside, but can't stay healthy. He's definitely helping his case this year, but IMO not a big concern.

2. No way in hell we resign Graham, even if he lights it up the rest of the year, and would take the same 10M a year. Just too many other needs. Anyone on this team making 10M a year + needs to be a MAJOR consistent contributor.

 

[A-Dog]

I guess I am confused (as it relates to the CAP) on why it is good news that they don't command more than they are already making

It's good news relative to guys like Sheldon Richardson and Paul Richardson, who are in line to double their current salaries.

We don't have much room at all for next year's cap and the guys that are FA after this year are not accounted for. So if they make more or less next year vs this year is not as relevant as if they make a significant amount.

According to overthecap.com, if we move on from Avril and Lane, we'll have over $30M in available cap space. Easily enough to re-sign Richardson and Graham and have enough left over to add depth, pay draft pics, etc. (remember their 1st year cap hits will be relatively low).

 

[A-Dog]

2. No way in hell we resign Graham, even if he lights it up the rest of the year, and would take the same 10M a year. Just too many other needs. Anyone on this team making 10M a year + needs to be a MAJOR consistent contributor.

We do not know how much it would take to re-sign Graham. What if it's $8M/year with a low first-year cap hit? Something like 3 years / $25M with a $9M signing bonus and a first-year cap hit of $4M?

Graham seems to like Seattle, he's close with RW, he's made a ton of money, and he's on a team in the middle of a championship window. Might be worth giving up a couple of mil a season.

Also, what are the other glaring needs?

 

[KitsapGuy]

Further still, Schefter doesn’t believe the Brown signing will cost the Seahawks players or wins down the road when it comes to re-signing free agents.

“Every team’s got to make choices like that. If you bring in a $9 million salary, you’re going to have to lose $9 million worth of players. That’s sort of the way it goes, right? But those things sometimes are easily overcome. It’s really not a cap situation so much as it’s a cash situation, and that’s not an issue for Seattle, you can figure these things out and make it work. Let’s just say there’s a player you want to keep that’s supposed to make $5 million in the last year of a deal, you can always extend him out, lower the cap number, as long as you’re paying him… it’s not as much of a problem as you think it is. So yeah, they got Duane, (and) are they going to have to create room? Sure. They’re not going to lose someone that they want to keep over this deal. I can promise you that.”

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/361371/di ... -think-so/

 

[Sgt. Largent]

2. No way in hell we resign Graham, even if he lights it up the rest of the year, and would take the same 10M a year. Just too many other needs. Anyone on this team making 10M a year + needs to be a MAJOR consistent contributor.

We do not know how much it would take to re-sign Graham. What if it's $7M/year with a low first-year cap hit? Something like 3 years / $25M with a $9M signing bonus and a first-year cap hit of $4M?

Graham seems to like Seattle, he's close with RW, he's made a ton of money, and he's on a team in the middle of a championship window. Might be worth giving up a couple of mil a season.

Also, what are the other glaring needs?

I also think Graham like Seattle................as in Seattle the city, the organization and his teammates.

But all things being equal in free agency? I'm 99% sure he'd go elsewhere if offered the same money. It's no secret that he hasn't been happy with his 2-3 balls a game having to block 50% of the time role here.

Which is fine, like I said that much money? even 7M a year IMO is too much to dedicate to an under utilized TE like Graham that can't block.

Other glaring needs?

- RB
- D line
- O Line
- Safety if you can't resign McDougall
- outside LB

We have a LOT of depth players on one year deals, that all needs to be spent on........and who knows what it'll cost to sign Richardson and Brown to long term deals.

 

[A-Dog]

I'm 99% sure he'd go elsewhere if offered the same money.

Well, that is pure speculation. I believe the opposite.

even 7M a year IMO is too much to dedicate to an under utilized TE like Graham that can't block.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Graham could be more involved, sure, but he's making an impact now in the red zone and hopefully the addition of Brown along with the OL gelling more overall will free him up more.

Other glaring needs?

- RB
- D line
- O Line
- Safety if you can't resign McDougall
- outside LB

Agree about RB - crossing fingers that Carson comes back strong. I think we are pretty set now at OL and DL, although like I mentioned we could use a SAM with pass rushing ability. As far as safety goes, that will depend a lot on how the kids are developing. Adding McDougald or a similar vet won't break the bank in any case. With Graham and Willson set to be UFAs, that would leave us with only one TE from the active roster, making TE the most glaring need apart from RB.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Graham could be more involved, sure, but he's making an impact now in the red zone and hopefully the addition of Brown along with the OL gelling more overall will free him up more..

Certainly possible, but it's year #3 with Graham, and other than these last couple of games, he's had a rough go of it.

If you're him and the Saints, Raiders, or whoever offered you the same or more than us? You wouldn't want to go when you're back to a passing style offense not having to block 50% of the time?

I just can't fathom a scenario that Graham's in our long term cap plans, for him or us. I'd rather put that money towards giving Brown and the Richardsons long term deals................and trying to restructure guys like Sherman, Earl, KJ, etc...........all who have BIG cap hits in 2018. So make sense to extend guys like this a couple more years and alleviate their big cap numbers.

 

[A-Dog]

put that money towards giving Brown and the Richardsons long term deals................and trying to restructure guys like Sherman, Earl, KJ, etc...........all who have BIG cap hits in 2018. So make sense to extend guys like this a couple more years and alleviate their big cap numbers.

I agree with all of this, but I don't think doing these things and re-signing Graham need to be mutually exclusive.

 

[Seymour]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Graham could be more involved, sure, but he's making an impact now in the red zone and hopefully the addition of Brown along with the OL gelling more overall will free him up more..

Certainly possible, but it's year #3 with Graham, and other than these last couple of games, he's had a rough go of it.

If you're him and the Saints, Raiders, or whoever offered you the same or more than us? You wouldn't want to go when you're back to a passing style offense not having to block 50% of the time?

I just can't fathom a scenario that Graham's in our long term cap plans, for him or us. I'd rather put that money towards giving Brown and the Richardsons long term deals................and trying to restructure guys like Sherman, Earl, KJ, etc...........all who have BIG cap hits in 2018. So make sense to extend guys like this a couple more years and alleviate their big cap numbers.

If we attempt to sign the entire core to 3rd contracts, we will have signed our own kiss of death. :177692:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

put that money towards giving Brown and the Richardsons long term deals................and trying to restructure guys like Sherman, Earl, KJ, etc...........all who have BIG cap hits in 2018. So make sense to extend guys like this a couple more years and alleviate their big cap numbers.

I agree with all of this, but I don't think doing these things and re-signing Graham need to be mutually exclusive.

I actually would like to see Graham stay, but not if it's at the expense of other needs............and my guess is like most big name FA's, some team with a lot of cap space is going to give him a ridiculous offer.

If I had to guess, we'll do the Golden Tate plan, give him a reasonable offer, and then tell him to go test FA. If no one blows him away, come on back.

Sometimes it doesn't work, like with Tate, but sometimes it does, like with Kearse.