Does Defense still win championships?

[Mase]

-- The answer to the original question, is YES, defense does win championships. The interesting part is where does that defense come from. Found an interesting breakdown. And what would it look like if you removed Carroll and Belichek from this equation. I think this is over the last 20 years.

PRIOR EXPERIENCE	% OF HEAD COACHES	% WITH TOP 5 OFFENSES	% WITH TOP 5 DEFENSES	OFFENSIVE IMPACT VALUE	DEFENSIVE IMPACT VALUE
Offense	53%	61%	55%	1.16	1.05
Defense	47%	39%	45%	0.83	0.95

-- So slightly more offensive coaches were hired, but their impacts on both the offense and defense were beyond that of their offensive counterparts. I am a defensive guy at heart, but I have always believed that offense is building something and defense is blowing it up. Perhaps the inclination to build something is more effective for the role of head coach. Obviously I am over generalizing here, but you see my point.

Mase

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

You just need more points than the other guy and the scoreboard doesn't care how you do it.

 

[fenderbender123]

There are 3 general aspects of football: Offense, defense, and special teams. They are all EQUALLY important. Even special teams. If you are missing field goals and fumbling punt returns, it's going to be difficult to win games.

An elite defense mixed with an average offense and special teams can win the Super Bowl. An elite offense with average defense and special teams can win the Super Bowl. Elite special teams with an average offense and defense can win the Super Bowl, too.

I can't consider one aspect being the most important.

 

[cymatica]

If you want to drill down on this statement, it was really more about superior line play. Another Hawk evergreen deficiency, on both sides of the ball.

I don't care if it's 1945 or 2025, great D and O lines win. Period.

Mainly because they were allowed to commit huge holds on offense and defense.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Mainly because they were allowed to commit huge holds on offense and defense.

Nah, they beat the living crap out of Penix to the point he was missing wide open receivers and seeing ghosts on almost every drop back, and ran for 200 yards in the 1st quarter alone.

Some bad no calls, but if this was your takeaway from the Championship game, you weren't watching closely enough.

 

[billbird2111]

Michigan just beat Washington...

Good point. Not just beat them, but beat them like a drum and physically beat up on the Huskies.

 

[renofox]

The NFL evolves in circular fashion. 10-20 years ago defense mostly won championships. Since then its been mostly offense. We may be seeing the first signs of it moving back to defense?

 

[Ozzy]

looking at the SB teams the past few years its obvious you need both but it seems like more are offensively focused for sure. KC, Philly, Rams, Cincinatti etc so it does seem like teams with elite QB's and an offensive emphasis have been an easier path to the SB. This could all change in the future too obviously. But I would argue an elite offense and a good defense beats anything else currently.

 

[calinator]

Balance. The Ravens and 49'ers are elite on both sides of the ball.

The LOB teams on the other side of the ball had quite possibly the best running game in the league at the time and Russ who could come in the clutch late in the game.

Even the Chiefs with their 2 superbowls aren't completely offense. They had Chris Jones and the defense has been capable.

The Rams weren't just Mcvay. They had Donald and Ramsey holding things down and making the game winning sack.

The Patriots had a very elite defense and Brady made things happen on offense.

Etc etc. Purely offensive teams are usually finesse a lot of times and get eaten up like many of the high powered Peyton Manning teams.

 

[ZagHawk]

It seems like your team has to be top 5 on one side of the ball and top 10 on the other side. Anytime there is a severe discrepancy is when the one side of the ball you are top 3 suddenly gets stopped (or scored on) and now the other side cannot make up for they have been handicapped with all season.

Personally I would rather have a top 3 offense with a top10 defense, than a top 3 defense with a top10 offense.

 

[ZagHawk]

Balance. The Ravens and 49'ers are elite on both sides of the ball.

The LOB teams on the other side of the ball had quite possibly the best running game in the league at the time and Russ who could come in the clutch late in the game.

Even the Chiefs with their 2 superbowls aren't completely offense. They had Chris Jones and the defense has been capable.

The Rams weren't just Mcvay. They had Donald and Ramsey holding things down and making the game winning sack.

The Patriots had a very elite defense and Brady made things happen on offense.

Etc etc. Purely offensive teams are usually finesse a lot of times and get eaten up like many of the high powered Peyton Manning teams.

Exactly. You can't be elite on only one side of the ball. You eventually get exposed regardless offense or defense. We have seen it before. SB 48 Broncos, 2024 Huskies, My Zags countless seasons on ofense. And with our Hawks we have seen when the offense slid and the defense was still elite, and games start going the other direction.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

looking at the SB teams the past few years its obvious you need both but it seems like more are offensively focused for sure. KC, Philly, Rams, Cincinatti etc so it does seem like teams with elite QB's and an offensive emphasis have been an easier path to the SB. This could all change in the future too obviously. But I would argue an elite offense and a good defense beats anything else currently.

I think the trend is have a great offense, but still have at least an average to above average defense.

All Pete had to do is get his defense to slightly better than average and that would have probably equaled 2-3 more wins. That's all it takes. Just can't be terrible.

This is why I like the current trend of hiring the next young offensive minded wunderkind, and then match him up with a grizzled old D-coordinator who knows his sh&* and can put together a tough respectable defense.

 

[Ozzy]

I think the trend is have a great offense, but still have at least an average to above average defense.

All Pete had to do is get his defense to slightly better than average and that would have probably equaled 2-3 more wins. That's all it takes. Just can't be terrible.

This is why I like the current trend of hiring the next young offensive minded wunderkind, and then match him up with a grizzled old D-coordinator who knows his sh&* and can put together a tough respectable defense.

I think it’s currently the perfect formula. Sure it’s not the only way but it appears to be the easiest way.

 

[cymatica]

Nah, they beat the living crap out of Penix to the point he was missing wide open receivers and seeing ghosts on almost every drop back, and ran for 200 yards in the 1st quarter alone.

Some bad no calls, but if this was your takeaway from the Championship game, you weren't watching closely enough.

Those huge run plays only happened as Husky players were getting pulled from behind right at the point of attack, I watched very closely and watched those plays several times. Yes Penix was off, but it was a one sided officiated game, right as they were about to tie it the refs decided to call a hold not even close to what Michigan got away with. The receivers were getting mugged like crazy too. I guess you weren't watching closely enough

 

[knownone]

Going off this season, the teams with the best SB odds all have elite defenses. Defense is more important now than ever because it's easier to generate offense. So, there is value in having an elite defensive coach. That's one of the reasons I'm intrigued by Mike Macdonald. If he's really the McVay of defense, that's the kind of move that could swing the division.

 

[Welshers2]

Yes defense still wins championships. The Natty is recent evidence of that.

The trend towards younger offensive minds is a current trend. I'm sure one of these seasons we'll see a batch of defensive minded hiring to counter the new offensive schemes we're seeing.

Speculation. I seriously doubt Michigan won the national championship without offense, as you claim here.

I haven't read any reports stating as such either.

 

[Fade]

The last defensive head coach to make a Super Bowl was Bill Belichick.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The phrase "defense wins championships" has never really been true, at least in remotely modern times. Football Outsiders did a great write-up on this with facts, and the reality is that the more BALANCED team wins the vast majority of the time; in other words, a team with #1 offense and #20 defense is usually losing to a team with a #7 offense and a #8 defense, for example.

 

[Ozzy]

More top ten offenses are in the playoffs including the top 4 than top 10 defenses and looking at SB teams the past decade or so paints a picture that offense is more important.

 

[WarHawks]

Top 5 offense + top ten defense = good chance to make a sb, which is why we need to let Geno go. It's not rocket science.