Do they win if Wentz played?

[olyfan63]

I think we win more convincingly if Wentz plays all game

THIS. McCown did better than Wentz; Seattle has a long history of making backup QBs look like All-Pros.

Clowney should have been ejected IMO.

-snip-
Wentz was a runner in that situation and Clowney went low simultaneously as Wentz was falling forward. Can you show, or reference another example where a player was ejected for a play like that?

Popeye, CHALLENGE, can you show any other play EVER (under current rules) where a defensive player was ejected, or even flagged, for a similar play, on any ballcarrier, QB, RB, WR, TE?

QBs have NO special protection as a RUNNER, like they do as a passer.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Aren't we actually MORE injured on offense than they are as of today?

They can take their excuses and shove 'em where the sun don't shine.

 

[flmmkrz]

I don't think they win with Wentz in. People act like the game plays out the exact same way with just a better qb in. They had a game plan for Wentz, one that's been effective many times over. With him out, Pete and KNJ went very vanilla on defense, they were betting that McCown couldn't keep marching the field to keep pace with the hawks. They played far more passive and made McCown look better than he was, but Pete bet right/ While he moved the ball, when it counted he couldn't put points tds on the board. Wentz might've burnt us for a td or put up a few more points but you could bet the pressure would've been ramped up as well and turnovers come from that and we'd have pushed harder on offense as well. It would've been a totally different looking ball game. At the end with him in or out we were the better team.

 

[olyfan63]

Yup, Hawks D watched a week of film of Wentz, knew what to look for, his tendencies, etc. with McCown, it starts out as an unknown. McCown did better than Wentz did, in this game, for that reason. With Wentz in, we probably get a pick or two.

 

[davidonmi]

No.

We were never losing that game.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Wentz was 1/4 for 3 yards when he went out. I'm not exactly biting my nails over what could have happened.

 

[kf3339]

Wentz looked lost out there in the first quarter. If anything, we probably would have won by a higher score differential. Doesn't matter as we won, and on to the game with the Packers.

 

[Popeyejones]

Absolutely no way to answer that question.

Clowney should have been ejected IMO.

And just like with Wentz (who would have been out for the game regardless of if Clowney were ejected or not), there's no way to know what would have happened if Clowney was ejected.

Suppose Clowney got ejected and Wentz kept on playing the game. The Seahawks still could have ended up winning. Once you start fiddling with the dials who's to say.

These types of hyptheticals are only good for trying to reach predetermined conclusions IMO.

The game was played and the Seahawks won it, and that won't be changed by fiddling with hypothetial dials.

Ejected? For making a play? It was unfortunate that Wentz got a concussion, but Clowney wasn’t trying to hurt him. Don’t be an idiot.

Oh, go Vikings.

The way to not hurt him is to do what people do 99.5 times out of 100 in that situation when you're not sure if someone is down by contact or not by reaching down and tagging them with your hand. I thought what he did instead was dirty AF and completely inexcusable, but we agree that me thinking that changes nothing in terms of real outcomes OR hypothetical outcomes.

Good luck against the Packers next week and good luck on no injuries too. :2thumbs:

I have never seen an NFL player ejected for a hit like that. Ever.

You don’t like Seattle fans pushing the conspiracy angle, and you come in here pushing this nonsense??

You have credibility here. Don’t flush it away with this horrid take.

If I have any credibility here -- and I don't care if I do -- it's because I'm honest in my opinion, even when it's critical of the 49ers or complimentary or critical of the Seahawks.

My honest opinion is that I, like everyone else, have no idea whatsoever if the outcome would have been different if that play was different, nor do I really care.

Me thinking that play was dirty AF and he should have been ejected doesn't invalidate your precious win at all. Seriously.

Why do people keep mentioning college? You guys know there were multiple defenders ejected for helmet to helmet hits in the NFL this year, right? Kwon Alexander got ejected for a helmet to helmet this year and unlike most 9ers fans I thought that was the right call also, I guess because I'm biased and lack credibility or something? :idea: :roll:

As for the ridiculous bespoke standard of an ejection on that precise play, TBH I can't even think of anyone ever having gotten concussed like that before because DEFENDERS DON'T DO THAT.

I've literally never in my life seen somebody contort their body to spear somebody in the back of the helmet after they've already been tackled and are going to the ground. They use their hands, just like Bobby Wagner brags about. You see guys get tapped down in that situation every weekend.


TL;DR for all the sore winner hypersensitive ninnies:

(1) I don't think that play invalidates the win at all, full stop.

(2) I thought the play was dirty as hell and as egregious as the other ejections for spearing in the NFL this year.
That is my opinion and we all agree my opinion changes nothing.

(3) if you can't handle #2 go back and read #1 (which is also true) over and over again inside your hug machine.

 

[SanDiego49er]

I guess we will never know. But you would have to say that is certainly a lot better than a 40 year old backup QB who was largely ineffective.

 

[Hawkpower]

Ejected? For making a play? It was unfortunate that Wentz got a concussion, but Clowney wasn’t trying to hurt him. Don’t be an idiot.

Oh, go Vikings.

The way to not hurt him is to do what people do 99.5 times out of 100 in that situation when you're not sure if someone is down by contact or not by reaching down and tagging them with your hand. I thought what he did instead was dirty AF and completely inexcusable, but we agree that me thinking that changes nothing in terms of real outcomes OR hypothetical outcomes.

Good luck against the Packers next week and good luck on no injuries too. :2thumbs:

I have never seen an NFL player ejected for a hit like that. Ever.

You don’t like Seattle fans pushing the conspiracy angle, and you come in here pushing this nonsense??

You have credibility here. Don’t flush it away with this horrid take.

If I have any credibility here -- and I don't care if I do -- it's because I'm honest in my opinion, even when it's critical of the 49ers or complimentary or critical of the Seahawks.

My honest opinion is that I, like everyone else, have no idea whatsoever if the outcome would have been different if that play was different, nor do I really care.

Me thinking that play was dirty AF and he should have been ejected doesn't invalidate your precious win at all. Seriously.

Why do people keep mentioning college? You guys know there were multiple defenders ejected for helmet to helmet hits in the NFL this year, right? Kwon Alexander got ejected for a helmet to helmet this year and unlike most 9ers fans I thought that was the right call also, I guess because I'm biased and lack credibility or something? :idea: :roll:

As for the ridiculous bespoke standard of an ejection on that precise play, TBH I can't even think of anyone ever having gotten concussed like that before because DEFENDERS DON'T DO THAT.

I've literally never in my life seen somebody contort their body to spear somebody in the back of the helmet after they've already been tackled and are going to the ground. They use their hands, just like Bobby Wagner brags about. You see guys get tapped down in that situation every weekend.


TL;DR for all the sore winner hypersensitive ninnies:

(1) I don't think that play invalidates the win at all, full stop.

(2) I thought the play was dirty as hell and as egregious as the other ejections for spearing in the NFL this year.
That is my opinion and we all agree my opinion changes nothing.

(3) if you can't handle #2 go back and read #1 (which is also true) over and over again inside your hug machine.

For someone that doesn't care, you sure typed like you care. Alot of emotion and anger there.

Sometimes we make claims in the heat of the moment that upon reflection, are off base. I've done it. We all have.

That is what has happened here. You claim there should have been a penalty? Probably so, although debatelable.

Ejection is where you jumped the shark. Instead of doubling down, realize you went too far and just walk it back.

We all do it. Its ok

 

[RolandDeschain]

Hatred is definitely coloring Popeye's glasses on this one. Clowney's helmet barely tapped Wentz's, the only way you can think otherwise is if you don't understand what forward momentum is and how much of it Wentz had at the time of impact.

The GROUND is what did the damage.

 

[A.D.I.D.A.S.]

Not understanding all of the,"Wentz didn't look good when he was out there," responses. He left the game a little over five minutes into the first quarter and he wasn't out there for all of that time.

Either way who knows/cares. "If ifs and but's were candy and nuts.........."

 

[Popeyejones]

For someone that doesn't care, you sure typed like you care. Alot of emotion and anger there.

Sometimes we make claims in the heat of the moment that upon reflection, are off base. I've done it. We all have.

That is what has happened here. You claim there should have been a penalty? Probably so, although debatelable.

Ejection is where you jumped the shark. Instead of doubling down, realize you went too far and just walk it back.

We all do it. Its ok

Point of clarification: I said I don't care about (1) if having a disliked opinion poses a threat to my "credibility" here or not, or (2) if that play changed the outcome of the game or not (how could anybody know and why would I care?).

That I've been posting here for eight friggin years and have a cavalry of people impugnig my motives whenever I happen to hold a random opinion that doesn't temporarily flatter them is something I care about because I find it ridiculous, but it also comes with the territory.

In any case though, no, I'm not doubling down and I don't feel trapped by my opinion. I'm wrong and I change my mind all the time. My opinion is what it is and I've watched the clip enough times that it's incredibly unlikely to change. It is what it is.

Hatred is definitely coloring Popeye's glasses on this one.
.

Hatred for what?

Clowney? Why?

I know among self justifying Hawks fans it's an unpopular opinion (trust me I know after having spent last week watching 9ers fans deny the Warner DPI :lol: ) but it's not like I'm alone on some Island by saying I think that play was dirty AF or that Clowney could have been ejected for it.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Hatred for what?

Clowney? Why?

I know among self justifying Hawks fans it's an unpopular opinion (trust me I know after having spent last week watching 9ers fans deny the Warner DPI :lol: ) but it's not like I'm alone on some Island by saying I think that play was dirty AF or that Clowney could have been ejected for it.

He's a Seahawk. I strongly suspect you would not react as badly to it if he was, say, a Texan still, or a Dolphin or something.

 

[Popeyejones]

Hatred for what?

Clowney? Why?

I know among self justifying Hawks fans it's an unpopular opinion (trust me I know after having spent last week watching 9ers fans deny the Warner DPI :lol: ) but it's not like I'm alone on some Island by saying I think that play was dirty AF or that Clowney could have been ejected for it.

He's a Seahawk. I strongly suspect you would not react as badly to it if he was, say, a Texan still, or a Dolphin or something.

Badly meaning thinking an ejection was warranted?

That's false. I doubt it was intentional but I thought Demarious Randall's ejection for helmet to helmet a few weeks back was warranted and he's on the Browns.

I thought Kwon Alexander's ejection for helmet to helmet this year was warranted too and he's on the friggin 49ers. :lol: :roll:

The ulterior motive accusation is so washed.

My motive is that people are literally dying from playing this game we love and there's no room for bush league crap like this. It's indefensible. Tag the guy down like everyone else does week in and week out. There's just no room for it.

That a few Seahawks fans find it temporarily useful to claim otherwise in this instance is whatever to me. If Russell got concussed on entirely unnecessary head hunting y'all would be right with me. If the guy who did it to Russ then started calling you guys the worst fanbase in the world after doing you'd be absolutely losing it. Don't even lie.

Anyhoo, I've shared and clarified my opinion on this a few times too many already in this thread so I'm out. Later.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm just saying, we are all biased creatures. Every single one of us on this planet.

How biased is something that obviously varies, but it still exists in everyone, in every thought they have, and every action they take; whether they realize it or not.

 

[sc85sis]

Just finally saw the play. It could have been flagged. But I saw no sign of deliberate intent to injure. JD was actually turning his body away to try to hit with his right shoulder and couldn’t do it fast enough.

 

[cymatica]

Just finally saw the play. It could have been flagged. But I saw no sign of deliberate intent to injure. JD was actually turning his body away to try to hit with his right shoulder and couldn’t do it fast enough.

It didn't even look bad in real time. Only when you slow it down does it look bad. In real time he was trying to make a diving tackle from behind to stop Wentz, who got tripped up right as Clowney was lunging.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

They had like 22 yards of offense right around the time Wentz was replaced he was not playing well at all, i'm going to say yes we were winning that game period. 7 sacks today .

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Wentz looked scared again, come on. They beat them WITH him before and they controlled this game and would have won with or without him. Shoot, his backup played better.