Clint Hurtt = poor leadership

Sgt. Largent

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Agreed. His coaching capabilities are on full display with players who lollygag under his coaching. We have a bunch of people who are listlessly standing around on running plays that go to the other side. We have not had all twelve men going to the ball while Hurtt has been the DC. He is not motivating his players. Yes, a part of that is on Brooks as the field general, but a large part of it is that Hurtt's players have checked out on his scheme.

Also, which D-Linemen do you feel that Hurtt's coaching has helped over the past five seasons? It is a position group that has underperformed every single season he has been with the team.

Between Pete, Hurtt, Desais and Carl Smith you have over 100 years of coaching experience.

You really think this is a coaching issue? I understand it's an easy finger to point, but it's just not the case, from me or anyone analyzing what's been going on.

With a fully healthy Al Woods and Shelby Harris the interior line has been at least capable at stopping those inside gap runs. But without them? It's just a bunch of JAGS getting their ass ran over, and two MLB's that can't shed 2nd level blocks or attack the gaps.

So sure, fire Hurtt and bring in all of your favorite amazing coordinators, it ain't gonna make one bit of difference until the front seven is completely overhauled. Bad tackles, bad run edge, bad LB's, and bad safety play....and throw in two corners that also can't get off WR blocks to come down and make plays.

It's all bad. ALL of it.
 
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Jerhawk

Jerhawk

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It is why I called him the Miami Cheat for months. Never liked the guy. It is funny that JerHawk is now known for hating him more than I ever got noticed for while I was belittling him for months before we even promoted him. As I have pointed out on several occasions he never developed anyone on our D-Line that outperformed their draft position except Poona.
Is this why you stopped laughing at everything I say?
 

Maelstrom787

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It is why I called him the Miami Cheat for months. Never liked the guy. It is funny that JerHawk is now known for hating him more than I ever got noticed for while I was belittling him for months before we even promoted him. As I have pointed out on several occasions he never developed anyone on our D-Line that outperformed their draft position except Poona.

Hater! (Lol)

I think we could probably include Jarran Reed under his success stories. He came in after Jarran, but Jarran took big steps forward under him and wasn't as good after leaving. Clark, too. Mone looked a lot better prior to this year, also...
 

BASF

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Hater! (Lol)

I think we could probably include Jarran Reed under his success stories. He came in after Jarran, but Jarran took big steps forward under him and wasn't as good after leaving. Clark, too. Mone looked a lot better prior to this year, also...
Both Clark and Reed were second round draft picks though. Most everyone expected them both to play at least to the level that they did, if not better. Mone played to about his ability while playing in college. He has regressed this season as the scheme does not work for his abilities.
 

BASF

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Between Pete, Hurtt, Desais and Carl Smith you have over 100 years of coaching experience.

You really think this is a coaching issue? I understand it's an easy finger to point, but it's just not the case, from me or anyone analyzing what's been going on.

With a fully healthy Al Woods and Shelby Harris the interior line has been at least capable at stopping those inside gap runs. But without them? It's just a bunch of JAGS getting their ass ran over, and two MLB's that can't shed 2nd level blocks or attack the gaps.

So sure, fire Hurtt and bring in all of your favorite amazing coordinators, it ain't gonna make one bit of difference until the front seven is completely overhauled. Bad tackles, bad run edge, bad LB's, and bad safety play....and throw in two corners that also can't get off WR blocks to come down and make plays.

It's all bad. ALL of it.
Do you feel that the effort of the players is commiserate with players that believe in what their coach is teaching? Do you feel that the effort of the players has nothing to do with how they are coached? Coaching is not all Xs and Os as you well know. As I have said before, go back and watch the go ahead Rams touchdown. The players on the opposite side of the run were literally standing around. If that isn't your players checking out on the coach, I don't know what is.

I agree that we need to replace at least seven players on the starting defense. We have backups that our coaching staff believed would be able to step into starting roles and it has not happened. To believe that none of that is scheme, is beneath you Sgt. You are more intelligent than that.
 

Maelstrom787

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Both Clark and Reed were second round draft picks though. Most everyone expected them both to play at least to the level that they did, if not better. Mone played to about his ability while playing in college. He has regressed this season as the scheme does not work for his abilities.

Well, of course we were proven wrong in 2022... I'm just saying, on the outside looking in prior to this year, there were hints that he was a capable coach.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Do you feel that the effort of the players is commiserate with players that believe in what their coach is teaching? Do you feel that the effort of the players has nothing to do with how they are coached? Coaching is not all Xs and Os as you well know. As I have said before, go back and watch the go ahead Rams touchdown. The players on the opposite side of the run were literally standing around. If that isn't your players checking out on the coach, I don't know what is.

I agree that we need to replace at least seven players on the starting defense. We have backups that our coaching staff believed would be able to step into starting roles and it has not happened. To believe that none of that is scheme, is beneath you Sgt. You are more intelligent than that.

It's not beneath me, it's the truth.

What scheme HASN'T this defense run? Cause so far this year we've seen them all, Bear Front, cover 2, cover 3, man, box zone, 3-4, 4-3.

What scheme and coaching do you think they should run that they haven't if you think this is the problem?

People say scheme and coaching, but never elaborate. So please, tell me what's missing. Cause all I see is a bad defense with worn down and hurt players that are being exposed and not attacking plays downhill, thinking and not reacting. Which is exactly what guys like Sherman, KJ, Dave Wyman and others have said is going on.

So Idk, fire Hurtt just like we fired Norton. Isn't going to make a difference until we have some dogs and gamewreckers back on the defensive side of the ball.
 

BASF

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It's not beneath me, it's the truth.

What scheme HASN'T this defense run? Cause so far this year we've seen them all, Bear Front, cover 2, cover 3, man, box zone, 3-4, 4-3.

What scheme and coaching do you think they should run that they haven't if you think this is the problem?

People say scheme and coaching, but never elaborate. So please, tell me what's missing. Cause all I see is a bad defense with worn down and hurt players that are being exposed and not attacking plays downhill, thinking and not reacting. Which is exactly what guys like Sherman, KJ, Dave Wyman and others have said is going on.

So Idk, fire Hurtt just like we fired Norton. Isn't going to make a difference until we have some dogs and gamewreckers back on the defensive side of the ball.
Then allow me to elaborate. The 2-4-5 has killed us all season. Hurtt still calls it including in obvious running situations. A lot of the scheme choices having been him choosing to play each of the ones you mention when the down and distance or the offensive personnel should dictate a different call. If you want direct examples, I can go watch film and elaborate further.

There is a current thread where Matt Brown is breaking down our run fits. He shows that calls are being made by Hurtt that are putting the players at a disadvantage by the formation and then dictating their actions by motion. The league has obviously figured out Hurtt's defense as they are running at will against us.

Your comment about them thinking and not reacting ties directly into coaching. If your players still haven't figured out your defense in the last month of the season, the coach is doing something wrong. That or Schneider is drafting the lowest football IQ guys in the NFL.

Your comment about not attacking plays down hill is a direct indictment of Clint Hurtt and his desire to have them read and react with two gap responsibilities. The players have proven time and again that they can not perform at even an NFL average level while doing it, but Hurtt continues to call that style of defense.

Perhaps if I say Clint Hurtt's play calling of the defense instead of scheme would be more accurate.
 

toffee

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Well, of course we were proven wrong in 2022... I'm just saying, on the outside looking in prior to this year, there were hints that he was a capable coach.
We either have sucky players, or Pete wouldn't let DC coach, or our DC sucks.,
 

Sgt. Largent

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Then allow me to elaborate. The 2-4-5 has killed us all season. Hurtt still calls it including in obvious running situations. A lot of the scheme choices having been him choosing to play each of the ones you mention when the down and distance or the offensive personnel should dictate a different call. If you want direct examples, I can go watch film and elaborate further.

There is a current thread where Matt Brown is breaking down our run fits. He shows that calls are being made by Hurtt that are putting the players at a disadvantage by the formation and then dictating their actions by motion. The league has obviously figured out Hurtt's defense as they are running at will against us.

Your comment about them thinking and not reacting ties directly into coaching. If your players still haven't figured out your defense in the last month of the season, the coach is doing something wrong. That or Schneider is drafting the lowest football IQ guys in the NFL.

Your comment about not attacking plays down hill is a direct indictment of Clint Hurtt and his desire to have them read and react with two gap responsibilities. The players have proven time and again that they can not perform at even an NFL average level while doing it, but Hurtt continues to call that style of defense.

Perhaps if I say Clint Hurtt's play calling of the defense instead of scheme would be more accurate.

But they haven't primarily been in the 2-4-5 all season.

They've been in the 2-4-5 and 3-3-5, up until the past three games of which they've mainly been in a bear front (6-2-3), which I illustrated above, something like over 50% of the time now desperately trying to stop the run.

So again, do any scheme you want, and the Hawk's have tried all the schemes.

My solution playing any backup QB? Eight men in the box, CB's on island and Diggs is back alone to minimize any over the top plays.

That's it, that's all that's going to slow down this defense getting ran over.

You act like they're just stubbornly running the same unsuccessful scheme, like the 100+ years of successful defensive coaches don't know what's going on. I don't care about Hurtt, keep him, fire him, it wouldn't matter with the current group of players. It just wouldn't.

Giving up 100+ yards of rushing after initial contact isn't scheme, it's dudes. Not shedding blocks, not beating your man, not attacking downhill, WR's not shedding WR blocks to make plays on the edge, all of the above.
 

keasley45

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btw, this is the scheme the Hawk's D has been trying to stop the run with. The bear front.

View attachment 56167


You literally have EIGHT players in the box with the center and both guard spots covered by lineman, THREE ends to set the edge and TWO LB's or a LB/safety combo to fill ALL the gaps, both inside gaps.

Hurtt is right, they can juggle scheme and fronts all they want, but until the players start beating their man and attack downhill instead of just soaking up blocks and double teams and not shedding to make plays? Then this isn't going to stop.
And they're going to play the scheme until they get it right. Either this year or next. The players that don't fit will be gone and the players that have a year in the system and stick will be better for it.

It sucks, but it's obviously the plan. The scheme, once they get it right, will be solid against both run and pass and be more difficult to attack than systems of the past.

Time will tell if they're right. 2023 is right around the corner.
 

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