Clint Hurtt = poor leadership

[BASF]

It’s just hard to blame Clint when the defense is bad going on 5 years with two different DC’s. To not give Pete any blame seems odd

Funny to not recognize that Hurtt was the defensive line coach (our weakest link) starting five years ago. Also funny that he was even promoted after not developing anyone beyond their draft expectations other than undrafted free agent Poona Ford.

 

[Maelstrom787]

It’s just hard to blame Clint when the defense is bad going on 5 years with two different DC’s. To not give Pete any blame seems odd

Ultimately, the buck stops with him. That's true.

I don't disagree that bringing up Hurtt ended up being a bad decision, even if I wasn't upset about it at the time. While it is true they had trouble generating pressure, I think it was unclear at that time how much of that was Hurtt and how much was Norton. There were hints that Hurtt was a very adept positional coach, because prior to this year, they were churning out really good DT play from nobody prospects. Mone turned in some fantastic performances, Poona was a bit of a phenom, and it seemed like they could plug and play guys in the middle. Even Darrell Taylor looked to be developing really nicely.

It's clear he's overmatched in his role as DC, but it felt like a good bet to elevate him since he generally did good with what he had and is also a charismatic dude. Those guys usually deserve a shot.

Generally, I'm less critical of Pete for things like this, because I think the process behind his decision was sound. I think he just picked a guy who ended up busting. The process behind these offseason acquisitions on the staff though, it seemed very forward thinking. He was adapting to a trend and assembled what looked like a young, promising staff. I think they just got DeFilippo'd and it didn't work out despite looking promising on the face of things.

Now? I just want Pete to take his shit back and get the run defense working again. I'm off the Hurtt train completely. Pete trusts his guys, though, so I'm a little worried he'll stick behind Hurtt and Hurtt won't put it together. That's the rub with Pete. His trust makes him great but it bites him sometimes.

I hope he recognizes that this defense is an existential threat to the twilight of his career and doesn't mess around with trying to make it work. With KNJ, I understood keeping him, because the defense kept improving to really solid levels by the end of each year. This? Constant despair and only getting worse.

 

[Ozzy]

Ultimately, the buck stops with him. That's true.

I don't disagree that bringing up Hurtt ended up being a bad decision, even if I wasn't upset about it at the time. While it is true they had trouble generating pressure, I think it was unclear at that time how much of that was Hurtt and how much was Norton. There were hints that Hurtt was a very adept positional coach, because prior to this year, they were churning out really good DT play from nobody prospects. Mone turned in some fantastic performances, Poona was a bit of a phenom, and it seemed like they could plug and play guys in the middle. Even Darrell Taylor looked to be developing really nicely.

It's clear he's overmatched in his role as DC, but it felt like a good bet to elevate him since he generally did good with what he had and is also a charismatic dude. Those guys usually deserve a shot.

Generally, I'm less critical of Pete for things like this, because I think the process behind his decision was sound. I think he just picked a guy who ended up busting. The process behind these offseason acquisitions on the staff though, it seemed very forward thinking. He was adapting to a trend and assembled what looked like a young, promising staff. I think they just got DeFilippo'd and it didn't work out despite looking promising on the face of things.

Now? I just want Pete to take his shit back and get the run defense working again. I'm off the Hurtt train completely. Pete trusts his guys, though, so I'm a little worried he'll stick behind Hurtt and Hurtt won't put it together. That's the rub with Pete. His trust makes him great but it bites him sometimes.

I hope he recognizes that this defense is an existential threat to the twilight of his career and doesn't mess around with trying to make it work.

Like I said I don’t agree with everything but i appreciate the good discussion and you made some solid points. Ultimately we agree on Hurtt

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I suppose there are techniques you can teach players on fighting off blocks but m first instinct on telling the coach to figure out how his guys can get off blocks reminds me of a coaching strategy like "you, Strawberry, hit a home run".

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

I suppose there are techniques you can teach players on fighting off blocks but m first instinct on telling the coach to figure out how his guys can get off blocks reminds me of a coaching strategy like "you, Strawberry, hit a home run".

“Okay, Skip!”

 

[morgulon1]

We get it. You have a personal hatred of the guy for reasons other than performance.

He knows more about defense than you or I will ever forget, so let's keep that in mind when we're calling these guys buffoons.

We get it. Only you can call for someone to get the axe . And insinuate it's for something other than performance.

It could be because hurtt is a stupid shithead that should've never been given the job.

 

[Slick]

This thread should be retitled "Butthurtt"

 

[Fade]

Pete is the architect of this defense. No one held a gun to his head and forced these players and coaches on him. These are the guys he wanted. This is his vision. Not the results he's currently getting of course. But this was his plan. Not JS, Hurtt, Judy, Desai, etc. Pete's plan.

He wanted Hurtt to be his DC. He sold the farm for Adams even though he didn't fit his defense. He traded a 2nd & 3rd for Taylor. He traded for Harris, and signed Nwosu, traded up for Barton, got Woolen and developed him. Signed Diggs to a mega-contract after a gruesome injury, etc. Good, Bad, Indifferent, it's Pete.

The defense is Pete's baby, he builds the entire team around it, to compliment his defense that is. JS defers to him, especially as it pertains to the defense. They used to draft Lineman that Cable wanted. They deferred to him because no one knew more about O-Line than him, or so they thought. And with Pete, they draft, sign, and trade for what Pete wants for his defense. Pete goes and gets the coaches he wants for his defense, too.

I feel it's finally sinking in to people's heads that they have coaching issues on defense, (I can't believe it took this long for so many.) and that argument is through. So now the the goalposts are being moved to talent. (That Pete is also responsible for.)


Time to find out. I'm going to do a comparison of asset expenditure on the top 10 defenses in the NFL, and compare it to the Seahawks. I have no idea where they will stack up, but I'm definitely curious.

My guess is they've spent right there with the top 10, but maybe I'm off on this one.

Criteria:
(1) $5M APY def. players on current rosters.

(2) 1st, 2nd, 3rd rd picks on def. (expected starters). Over the last 5 years.

(3) Any trades of players that still remain on the rosters where 1st, 2nd, 3rd picks are used. That are still not making big money some how. As most of these guys will fall into category (1) anyway.


I will post my findings on .NET soon!

-Total picks (1st, 2nd, 3rd)
-Total draft value points, using a chart.
-Total number of $5M+ APY players.
-Total $$$ spent.

 

[TraderGary]

Good post even if I disagree with some of it. Now this could be BS but it seems to fit things I’ve seen….cowherd claims he has connections to a team scout guy who said multiple times Pete ignored the warnings from the scouting department and John to make some questionable picks(implying some of the bizarre early round picks) and that it pissed them off even though ad a person they love Pete. My theory is they’re right and last year Pete self evaluated and decided to give John more power to do his job and it led to a great draft. Again this could all be BS but I think it’s true.

FWIW, I absolutely believe this to be true. All the signs are there. In the past, we would reach for players who maybe had high upsides but were predicted to go much later than where we drafted them.

This past draft, we consistently selected the best player available and hit a home run. It was a complete 180 from what we had been doing and the most logical reason for that was Pete relinquishing at least some control to JS and the scouts.

 

[TraderGary]

Pete is the architect of this defense. No one held a gun to his head and forced these players and coaches on him. These are the guys he wanted. This is his vision. Not the results he's currently getting of course. But this was his plan. Not JS, Hurtt, Judy, Desai, etc. Pete's plan.

He wanted Hurtt to be his DC. He sold the farm for Adams even though he didn't fit his defense. He traded a 2nd & 3rd for Taylor. He traded for Harris, and signed Nwosu, traded up for Barton, got Woolen and developed him. Signed Diggs to a mega-contract after a gruesome injury, etc. Good, Bad, Indifferent, it's Pete.

The defense is Pete's baby, he builds the entire team around it, to compliment his defense that is. JS defers to him, especially as it pertains to the defense. They used to draft Lineman that Cable wanted. They deferred to him because no one knew more about O-Line than him, or so they thought. And with Pete, they draft, sign, and trade for what Pete wants for his defense. Pete goes and gets the coaches he wants for his defense, too.

I feel it's finally sinking in to people's heads that they have coaching issues on defense, (I can't believe it took this long for so many.) and that argument is through. So now the the goalposts are being moved to talent. (That Pete is also responsible for.)


Time to find out. I'm going to do a comparison of asset expenditure on the top 10 defenses in the NFL, and compare it to the Seahawks. I have no idea where they will stack up, but I'm definitely curious.

My guess is they've spent right there with the top 10, but maybe I'm off on this one.

Criteria:
(1) $5M APY def. players on current rosters.

(2) 1st, 2nd, 3rd rd picks on def. (expected starters). Over the last 5 years.

(3) Any trades of players that still remain on the rosters where 1st, 2nd, 3rd picks are used. That are still not making big money some how. As most of these guys will fall into category (1) anyway.


I will post my findings on .NET soon!

-Total picks (1st, 2nd, 3rd)
-Total draft value points, using a chart.
-Total number of $5M+ APY players.
-Total $$$ spent.

Looking forward to your analysis, but also afraid to see it at the same time. Without seeing your results yet, I KNOW we've spent a ton of assets on the defensive side of the ball, (not the least of which was the Adams trade which was probably one of the worst trades in league history), and still have one of the worst defenses in the league. That's very troubling to say the least, particularly since we have a HC who's supposed to be a defensive guru.

 

[Fade]

FWIW, I absolutely believe this to be true. All the signs are there. In the past, we would reach for players who maybe had high upsides but were predicted to go much later than where we drafted them.

This past draft, we consistently selected the best player available and hit a home run. It was a complete 180 from what we had been doing and the most logical reason for that was Pete relinquishing at least some control to JS and the scouts.

Also just drafted offensive players where the Seahawks hit at a high rate. They get into trouble when they draft defense early. Mafe is the only day 1 or day 2 pick they made on defense this year. Not gonna kill him as he is a rookie.

But they haven't hit on a guy in the first 2 days of the draft on defense since Frank Clark in 2015.

 

[strohmin]

Clint is right. The front seven is incapable of shedding their blocks and are horrible at tackling. Whoever is teaching these fundamentals is the one who should be fired.

 

[AgentDib]

The Panthers game is a painful game to rewatch but doing so will push you farther towards the personnel being the problem.

Taylor did his pass rush spin move on a third and long, except it was a rushing play and the RB ran right by him. Mafe had a couple of rookie moments trying to decide between covering the flat and going after Darnold. Nwosu really isn't much of a run defender and Irvin is playing too many snaps.

DT was a disaster after Woods went out. QJeff, Poona, Mone and Adams were all routinely blocked out of the play by a single guard (or even the center a few times). Like most I've been hoping that we're just playing Poona in disadvantageous situations, but it's not an alignment or scheme issue when a player is just getting dominated one on one by opposing blockers. There was one play early on, (opening drive 4th series?) I rewound about 100 times trying to figure out if Poona somehow didn't realize there was a RB running right past him or if I was missing something.

I've been hard on the LBs but this was a decent game for both Brooks and Barton. Barton bit on a couple of misdirections in the passing game but overall they both were making tackles without much help from the defensive line up front. Most of Carolina's rushing attempts got to the second level without any contact.

 

[Maelstrom787]

We get it. Only you can call for someone to get the axe . And insinuate it's for something other than performance.

It could be because hurtt is a stupid shithead that should've never been given the job.

Aw. Offended?

Jerhawk DOES have a long-standing dislike of Hurtt dating back to his college recruiting violations. He's talked about it before. He's called him an "immature child" and "snake" for highlighting things he'd like to do differently than KNJ.

Also, if you'd maybe read a bit, this post is mostly about press conference verbiage and body language... not team performance.

I'm not just making stuff up. Maybe you should read harder instead of crying.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Listen to this babbling buffoon try and explain what's wrong the the defense during this week's press conference.

He predictably throws his players under the bus within the first couple minutes, blaming D lineman for not getting off their blocks. He calls players selfish. He takes no accountability and basically says "I'm doing my job. It's not my fault."

Poor body language. Laughing throughout the press conference. Nothing is funny here coach Hurtt.

Instead of presenting ideas for how to correct this thing going forward, hes essentially throwing in the towel, blaming the tools he has to work with. That's not what a leader does!

Get this guy out of here!

Did we watch the same thing? I got none of that from this press conference. Dude didn't laugh one time.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Hate? No I don't hate him. I don't like him coaching these guys when he's a terrible leader with a checkered past. That's what I don't like.

Checkered past? I missed that one, do tell.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

btw, this is the scheme the Hawk's D has been trying to stop the run with. The bear front.




You literally have EIGHT players in the box with the center and both guard spots covered by lineman, THREE ends to set the edge and TWO LB's or a LB/safety combo to fill ALL the gaps, both inside gaps.

Hurtt is right, they can juggle scheme and fronts all they want, but until the players start beating their man and attack downhill instead of just soaking up blocks and double teams and not shedding to make plays? Then this isn't going to stop.

 

[BASF]

Checkered past? I missed that one, do tell.

NCAA lists allegations against Louisville's Clint Hurtt

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) -- Louisville's Clint Hurtt faces allegations of receiving and providing impermissible benefits while an assistant at Miami. The NCAA says

www.si.com

It is why I called him the Miami Cheat for months. Never liked the guy. It is funny that JerHawk is now known for hating him more than I ever got noticed for while I was belittling him for months before we even promoted him. As I have pointed out on several occasions he never developed anyone on our D-Line that outperformed their draft position except Poona.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

NCAA lists allegations against Louisville's Clint Hurtt

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) -- Louisville's Clint Hurtt faces allegations of receiving and providing impermissible benefits while an assistant at Miami. The NCAA says

www.si.com

It is why I called him the Miami Cheat for months. Never liked the guy. It is funny that JerHawk is now known for hating him more than I ever got noticed for while I was belittling him for months before we even promoted him. As I have pointed out on several occasions he never developed anyone on our D-Line that outperformed their draft position except Poona.

What does this have to do with his ability to coach?

Pete Carroll and USC were also nailed for recruiting violations after Pete left, including having to vacate a National Championship.

Should we fire Pete for that? Dude won a SB, has absolutely nothing to do with Hurtt's coaching capabilities.

 

[BASF]

What does this have to do with his ability to coach?

Pete Carroll and USC were also nailed for recruiting violations after Pete left, including having to vacate a National Championship.

Should we fire Pete for that? Dude won a SB, has absolutely nothing to do with Hurtt's coaching capabilities.

Agreed. His coaching capabilities are on full display with players who lollygag under his coaching. We have a bunch of people who are listlessly standing around on running plays that go to the other side. We have not had all twelve men going to the ball while Hurtt has been the DC. He is not motivating his players. Yes, a part of that is on Brooks as the field general, but a large part of it is that Hurtt's players have checked out on his scheme.

Also, which D-Linemen do you feel that Hurtt's coaching has helped over the past five seasons? It is a position group that has underperformed every single season he has been with the team.