RiverDog":2sa6kubn said:
Pandion Haliaetus":2sa6kubn said:
RiverDog":2sa6kubn said:
Played well? In those 43 snaps, Irvin had two tackles and zero sacks.
Like statistics mean jack squat...
imo Irvin had two jobs 1) Occupy blockers so guys like Wagner, Thomas, Chanchellor, and Wright could clean up. 2) Lock down his coverage responsbility.
The fact that Irvin was basically invisible doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job, but it could have meant he was doing the job that was asked, so that others could do theirs.
Said the #1 Defense in many major categories.
Using individual stats on defense is kind of lame when in the bigger picture its all about the scheme and everyone playing to their assignment.
No Irvin wasn't special at SLB... is anyone arguing that... but let's not act like he was a total hindrance and a failure out there... if you personally asked Quinn or Carroll on the real... what they thought of Irvin his first season at LBer... I'll bet my soul that they would say that he exceeded their expectations and that he also played the position more naturally than expected.
Irvin statistically had a similar year to KJ Wright did as a rookie except Irvin was probably better in coverage because he wasn't as contested as much.
And sorry that guys like Chris Clemons, Cliff Avril, and Michael Bennett who combined to almost make 20 million in 2013 were all quality DEs and doing well... so much so that Irvin wasn't needed.
The Seahawks even had a talented player in O'brien Schofield that ended up on the inactive roster for some games and got little playing time despite having some quality games in the first two matches vs Car and SF. But once Clemons came back and both him and Avril were healthy... OBS couldn't get on the field.
Seahawks had a good situation last year... don't know why you got punish Irvin for basically doing the job he was asked to do and having to make it more than it is... when its a non-story... again said the greatest Defense the NFL has seen since the 2000 Ravens.
One thing for sure not many LBers in the NFL can play shutdown coverage on WRs... Irvin is one of these playerss.
If he were playing DE, yes, that would have been his job. That's the primary job of the front 4, not the linebackers. Wright wasn't even playing that game, and Wagner played beside Irvin, not behind him. A linebacker's job is to fill holes and to make tackles. Like it or not, tackles, assists, TOL's, QB sacks, forced fumbles, et al are all yardsticks by which to measure a LB's performance. Wagner and Malcolm both had 9 tackles in that game, although to be fair, they also saw 40% more snaps. But Irvin usually came out on third downs in our nickel package, meaning he should have been in there on a higher percentage of running plays.
If you want to claim that he played well and that you are completely satisfied with his progress, then fine. You are entitled to your opinion, and you don't have to go to great lengths to explain it to me, I'll accept it for what it is. I'm not trying to change your opinion, rather I am explaining mine. But don't tell me that stats don't mean jack squat simply because theses particular ones don't happen to agree with your premise. You certainly made good use of stats in your previous posts, including the one above. Either they are relevant or they don't mean jack. You can't cherry pick some that you like and tell me that others don't mean jack. You can't have it both ways.
The other thing about Irvin that is being overlooked is that he was a #15 overall. During Pete's regime, there's only two other players on our squad, both Pro Bowlers, that were selected with a higher draft selection than was Irvin. Fair or not, that high of a draft pick brings with it increased expectations. At the moment, Irvin is not living up to those expectations. That doesn't mean that I consider him to be a failure. All I am saying is that he's not living up to the expectations that come with a #15 overall.
All the excuses are gone this year. No more being a rookie, no more PED suspension, no more learning a new position to rationalize his play. It's his third season.
Cmon Bro. You're not even arguing what I'm arguing.
In 2011, KJ Wright started 12 games and played in 16.
As a SAM backer, per pfref.com, he posted:
61 Tackles, 2 Sacks, 2 PD, 1 FF, 1 FR
It could be argued that Wright is one of the most instinctive players on the field.
In 2012, Bruce Irvin started 12 games out of 12 games. He posted:
45 Tackles, 2 Sacks, 2 PD, 1 FF, 1 INT.
Differences:
1. 2011defense wasn't as strong or cohesive as the 2013 team especially the front 7.
2. Nor did the 2011 defense feature the barrage of quality play-makers the 2013 defense had.
3. As stated above Wright is a cerebral player with years of LBer training.
4. Irvin was in his first year, and one wouldn't consider him an instinctive player.
5. And probably the most important was the scheme:
In 2011, Wright had Red Bryant in front of him absorbing multiple blockers in what was likely Bryant's best year ever.
In 2013, Quinn switched it up moving Wright to WLB and Bryant to the Weakside.
It meant Irvin at SAM, more often than not played the strong side with a smaller LEO rather than a space-eating 5tech, which meant Irvin had to not only set the strong-side edge but occupy a blocker, so others could kill the play. Seahawks bread and butter was playing Earl in a single high with Kam close to the line... Seahawks were pretty much running a 3-5-3.
6. Again, 2011 Wright and 2013 Irvin were basically similar players... Wright was better at shedding blocks and making instinctive plays but Irvin's elite athleticism made a quality coverage defender and he wasn't picked on as much as Wright was.
You have your opinion, and I have mine... but the truth is Bruce Irvin has been nothing but solid...not great but far above all the negative opinions of him. FFS, he was a sarting member on one of the best defenses in NFL history... and the Seahawks had more experienced LBers they could have gone with but they didn't.