Brandon Marshall signing

[Seymour]

He was targeted 128 times, Edelman and Crabtree the only other two targeted more, Crabtree had 9 drops, Edelman 5, his targets were high and before injury he really was a guy that had the focus of the defense I am sure. Don't think it's a big alarm bell.

And his 46% catch rate compared to Baldwins 75% for 2016?? :roll:

 

[chris98251]

All receivers drop balls, some of it is on them, some of it is a good defensive play, some of it is on ball placement by the QB. tell me when a Jets QB last made the Pro Bowl ?

Agree. Not league leading though!!

Read my update on abysmal catch rate of 46% also. That is really bad.

You have to look at is that his consistent rate or a abberition, again he is a cheap body right now, if he has his focus back and wants to prove something we may see his numbers show much better, also Wilson throws a very catchable ball. Don't like his placement all the time and I hope the throws his receivers open more under Schotty as well.

Disagree. When you go past 30 (now 34) as a WR a natural "abberition" is going to come with age.

LOL @ catchable ball. Watch the video I posted!! Breadbasket drop.

Best thing he "could do" IMO is play decoy and block. They aren't paying him squat compared to his NY contract, and there is a reason he was available so cheap. Just don't go thinking he is out "answer" or you'll be disappointed IMO.

As I said everyone drops a ball, could have thought he had it and misjudged, it happens. I am not saying he is a Steve Largent, Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, I am saying that he is better then many of our past guys, Riccardo Lockette comes to mind as a Receiver.

 

[Seymour]

Agree. Not league leading though!!

Read my update on abysmal catch rate of 46% also. That is really bad.

You have to look at is that his consistent rate or a abberition, again he is a cheap body right now, if he has his focus back and wants to prove something we may see his numbers show much better, also Wilson throws a very catchable ball. Don't like his placement all the time and I hope the throws his receivers open more under Schotty as well.

Disagree. When you go past 30 (now 34) as a WR a natural "abberition" is going to come with age.

LOL @ catchable ball. Watch the video I posted!! Breadbasket drop.

Best thing he "could do" IMO is play decoy and block. They aren't paying him squat compared to his NY contract, and there is a reason he was available so cheap. Just don't go thinking he is out "answer" or you'll be disappointed IMO.

As I said everyone drops a ball, could have thought he had it and misjudged, it happens. I am not saying he is a Steve Largent, Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, I am saying that he is better then many of our past guys, Riccardo Lockette comes to mind as a Receiver.

Not better than Kearse!! The year before we traded Kearse, he and Marshall had the exact same catch rate of 46.1%. ukeface:

I personally just hope Darboh sends him packing at this point.

 

[KitsapGuy]

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[Seymour]

One aspect not being discussed, is both Solari and Marshall came from NY and if there was any locker room issues I'd have to think they talked to Solari about it. Solari also may have been a key to bringing him back here. I'm not down on Marshall, I'm just going to post the facts I know and believe and try to help keep a reasonable perspective on what he may be able to do for us. :2thumbs:

 

[chris98251]

One aspect not being discussed, is both Solari and Marshall came from NY and if there was any locker room issues I'd have to think they talked to Solari about it. Solari also may have been a key to bringing him back here. I'm not down on Marshall, I'm just going to post the facts I know and believe and try to help keep a reasonable perspective on what he may be able to do for us. :2thumbs:

Well 73 percent of his catches were for first downs and a 13.4 yard per catch also.

 

[chris98251]

He was targeted 128 times, Edelman and Crabtree the only other two targeted more, Crabtree had 9 drops, Edelman 5, his targets were high and before injury he really was a guy that had the focus of the defense I am sure. Don't think it's a big alarm bell.

And his 46% catch rate compared to Baldwins 75% for 2016?? :roll:

What kind of throws wre thrown at Doug and what were thrown at Brandon? if Doug was taking posssession of the ball 5 yards down field on short throws and Brandon was running 20 yard routes and coming back the percentage is going to be lower since a harder throw was made. You can't cherry pick what you want to look good.Doug had 56 percent of his catches go for first downs.

They play different positions, Marshall is a primary Outside guy and Baldwin a Slot guy, their stats are going to differ based on that.

 

[Seymour]

Forget about Baldwin since he has a magic QB if you want. (BTW the magic QB threw 46.1% to Kearse if you keep reading) How many 5 yard routes do you remember Baldwin running? Come on man.....

3rd worst in the entire NFL in 2016 is NEVER going to be 100% on the QB. :roll:

I expect you'll never own the reality that he is no longer what you dreamed of.

 

[hawkfan68]

Here's Brandon Marshall's profile page on playerprofiler.com. There are some interesting stats on there, like catchable target rate, contested catch rate, etc.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/brandon-marshall/

His stats are quite comparable to Mike Evans, Bucs WR. I don't think anyone would be complaining if Mike Evans became a Seahawk. The biggest bias against Marshall is age and we all know that age in WRs isn't as big of a deal as it is in other positions.

 

[chris98251]

Forget about Baldwin since he has a magic QB if you want. (BTW the magic QB threw 46.1% to Kearse if you keep reading) How many 5 yard routes do you remember Baldwin running? Come on man.....

3rd worst in the entire NFL in 2016 is NEVER going to be 100% on the QB. :roll:

I expect you'll never own the reality that he is no longer what you dreamed of.

Baldwin caught a whole lot of hitches and curls and ran for YAC, maybe a revisit to film study may help, other then scramble drills Wilson didn't have time for long developing routes.

I never said he was going to be Randy Moss, I said he is going to be better then what we have till proven different, you seem to have the Hate going against him.

You ignore all the other stats and just focus on the one that suits your arguement as well, nit the amount of throws to him, not the Yards per catch average, not the first down per catch average.

Lets see you run 7 yards and come back on a route, 2 seconds and a person could throw you a catchable ball. Even with bad protection from the shot gun.

Now lets see you run a 20 or 15 yard route and come back for the ball, that takes more time, you have more pressure, chances are you have a DB hanging on you and you have a tougher throw from the QB and have to fight for the ball from a defender. Or a go route down the sidelines, while the ball is in the air you peek to make sure your inbounds and look up and misjudge where the ball is at and have a drop, by your standards he sucks now, those 959 catches prior don't mean anything, the player has lost it and is now garbage.

Also he is going to make defenses play honest, you can't double up on Doug and Brandon without someone else being open, Baldwins route running and Brandons size one on one with a DB is a win for the offense.

 

[Fade]

He might not make the team if the young receivers have great preseasons. Darboh & Moore in particular.

If he flops they won't bat an eye in cutting him. They will only be out $1M.

That is what makes it a good signing. Low risk with a chance he may have 1 more yr left in the tank to help in an area the team has a major need.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Not sure why he's being labelled with the 46% catch rate. He's only been in the 40s one year. If you look at last year, his rate was 54%, and generally he's been high 50s, low 60s. 46% is definitely not representative.

Statistics are bad enough in the NFL due to small sample size without cherry-picking them.

Also, catch rate has a lot to do with the QB throwing and the overall offensive scheme. It's a simple ratio of targets to receptions and doesn't take into consideration how well covered a player was. I would expect Seahawks players in general to have a fairly high rates because Wilson tends not to even throw the ball unless the receiver is open. We don't often do timing patterns, and rarely throw contestable balls because Carroll has a low-turnover philosophy in which it's better to throw it away than risk throwing interceptions.

It's entirely possible that a good receiver will be targeted when he is covered more often than a bad one, but hat would skew the catch % in favour of the bad one. I don't for a minute suggest that Baldwin is anything other than elite - I'm merely illustrating what a terrible statistic we're using.

 

[Jville]

I think many of us get rather reckless with the way we throw around the statistics that others put the time in to develop. Sometimes that carelessness just results in confusion and meandering discourse.

 

[Seymour]

Note to self. Do not use stats that "favor your point" in a discussion because you are cherry picking. Well then, we should have never traded Kearse and his 2016 46.1% catch rate (same as Marshall in 2016) because that was just cherry picking stats coach. Do not use 2nd in drops because look at Jimmy, and what about his QB? Wait....where is Jimmy now?

 

[KiwiHawk]

Note to self. Do not use stats that "favor your point" in a discussion because you are cherry picking. Well then, we should have never traded Kearse and his 2016 46.1% catch rate (same as Marshall in 2016) because that was just cherry picking stats coach. Do not use 2nd in drops because look at Jimmy, and what about his QB? Wait....where is Jimmy now?

You're characterizing Marshall's catch rate based on one single season that is inconsistent with the rest of his career and isn't even last season's rate. That's pretty much a textbook example of cherry picking.

Then you want to equate Marshall to Kearse and Graham, except we're neither signing Marshall to 3 years for $13.5 million or 3 years for $30 million. Instead, it's 1 year for a maximum $2 million. If other teams value a 46% catch rate at 3/13.5m or a 2nd-in-drops at 3/30m, then aren't we getting a bargain at 1/2m? I'm pretty sure anyone can see they are not comparable situations.

Why not use other metrics like Kearse's 0 pro bowls and 0 all-pros compare to Marshall's 6 pro bowls and an all-pro nod?

And what is the magical significance of the 2016 season? Why not take his stats from 2017, or 2015? Is it because they fail to support your narrative? It's entirely possible that the failure of additional data points to support your narrative has something to do with your narrative not being valid.

 

[johnnyfever]

I absolutely love this signing. Top 5 blocking WR in the league. Size to help in red zone. Great route runner. Passionate dude. For 2MM this is fantastic.

If you want to commit to the running game, but have poor blocking WRs, good luck. Hawks are throwing their chips in with the running game- look forward to seeing them move the chains and work back on play action.

Not only this, but the experience he brings to the new guys on the offense in general is worth the cap space taken.

 

[Seymour]

2016 was his last full season. Most recent full non injured stats. I used them because that is logical with his age becoming a factor.....to some.

I don't think he is a bad signing. I just think some here believe a fairy tale may come true and am pointing toward trends that show otherwise. 3 Td's in 2 years also was stated for obvious reasons.

 

[hawknation2018]

He was targeted 128 times, Edelman and Crabtree the only other two targeted more, Crabtree had 9 drops, Edelman 5, his targets were high and before injury he really was a guy that had the focus of the defense I am sure. Don't think it's a big alarm bell.

And his 46% catch rate compared to Baldwins 75% for 2016?? :roll:

LOL.

Only 66 passes thrown to Marshall in 2016 were labelled "catchable." Marshall caught 59 of those 66 catchable balls or 89%.

 

[original poster]

He was targeted 128 times, Edelman and Crabtree the only other two targeted more, Crabtree had 9 drops, Edelman 5, his targets were high and before injury he really was a guy that had the focus of the defense I am sure. Don't think it's a big alarm bell.

And his 46% catch rate compared to Baldwins 75% for 2016?? :roll:

LOL.

Only 66 passes thrown to Marshall in 2016 were labelled "catchable." Marshall caught 59 of those 66 catchable balls or 89%.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[hawknation2018]

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