Article - espn insider - Has Wilson surpassed luck?

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

Forgetting college careers and draft hoopla and only considering NFL performance - Wilson surpassed Luck sometime last season and it hasn't been that close this year with maybe a nadir of closeness after the Colts-Hawks game.

 

[WarHawks]

Forgetting college careers and draft hoopla and only considering NFL performance - Wilson surpassed Luck sometime last season and it hasn't been that close this year with maybe a nadir of closeness after the Colts-Hawks game.

Agreed. And Wilson has done it without an intact OL a good chunk of the year, and while being hurried and hit more than any other qb in the league. Luck was impressive on his home field in the one game we [barely] lost, but beyond that, he hasn't been nearly as impressive as Wilson.

 

[WindCityHawk]

Luck will always have the upper hand of public opinion because of his draft stock, the same way Manning will always be held higher than Brady. If you look at the numbers since draft day, it's been all Wilson: more TD, fewer interceptions, more wins. The only reason Luck has more yards is because the Colts can't run.

That said, of course Luck is good, of course he is. They really are the new Manning and Brady, the golden boy drafted first overall versus the the phenom out of nowhere who actually outplays him and goes to five Super Bowls. Manning can have all the acclaim, I'm sure Brady will take his three Lombardis any day. And so will Wilson. And so will I.

 

[HawkFan72]

Sando is no Seahawks fan. He posts pictures of his kids wearing Kaepernick and Wilson jerseys on Facebook. They are NFC West fans...whatever that means.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Honestly, I think you hit it on the head when you said that the height thing is something this GM and others can't get over. They couldn't believe a quarterback who is only 5'10 5/8" would be successful in the NFL, and now that he is they can't fathom it and make excuses for his success while excusing others.

To me, the comments Jeffrey Chadhia makes regarding Wilson lets me know all I need as far as national perspective on Wilson. These guys get so locked in and in lock step with each other it is nauseating.

I don't need the pundits to tell me who is the best but at least they should offer neutral analysis and try to throw out the preconceived notions. Sando does do his homework and attempts not to play favorites though he tends to offer excuses for his favorites as well from time to time. Time is the only way to tell. To have Wilson even be mentioned shows the good fortunes that have been coming this franchise's way.

It's not just the pundits and their preconceived notions Doc, it's the GMs too as you mentioned. Group think man. It's why no one ever tried long, physical corners before the Hawks did.

 

[HawkWow]

Honestly, I think you hit it on the head when you said that the height thing is something this GM and others can't get over. They couldn't believe a quarterback who is only 5'10 5/8" would be successful in the NFL, and now that he is they can't fathom it and make excuses for his success while excusing others.

To me, the comments Jeffrey Chadhia makes regarding Wilson lets me know all I need as far as national perspective on Wilson. These guys get so locked in and in lock step with each other it is nauseating.

I don't need the pundits to tell me who is the best but at least they should offer neutral analysis and try to throw out the preconceived notions. Sando does do his homework and attempts not to play favorites though he tends to offer excuses for his favorites as well from time to time. Time is the only way to tell. To have Wilson even be mentioned shows the good fortunes that have been coming this franchise's way.

It's not just the pundits and their preconceived notions Doc, it's the GMs too as you mentioned. Group think man. It's why no one ever tried long, physical corners before the Hawks did.

Totally. Winning makes everything fun, but even if we were less than the team we are now, I'd still love the outside the box stuff Pete brings to the table. The guy is (clearly) a risk taker and in today's NFL parity league, you better be prepared to gamble or be prepared to watch the playoffs from home.

 

[mjwhitay]

I'm still trying to figure out why so many people still prefer Luck. He was the "most NFL ready" prospect in 15 years, yet he puts up stinker after stinker. He doesn't complete a very high percentage and his ypa is not good.

While everyone was salivating over some perceived potential that Luck has, I'd just take Wilson to start my team and beat them all. He's the best QB in the class and top 5 in the league right now.

 

[chris98251]

Best thing for Luck to show what he could do ended up in Arizona as coach. There is a reason they have become respectable so fast.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I'm still trying to figure out why so many people still prefer Luck. He was the "most NFL ready" prospect in 15 years, yet he puts up stinker after stinker. He doesn't complete a very high percentage and his ypa is not good.

While everyone was salivating over some perceived potential that Luck has, I'd just take Wilson to start my team and beat them all. He's the best QB in the class and top 5 in the league right now.

THIS THIS THIS

How can anyone tell me with a straight face that Luck is on par or better than Wilson.

Career Stats
Luck 582/1045 55.7% 7167 yards, 6.9avg, 38/26 TD/INT 78.8 rating
Wilson 428/668 64.1% 5480 yards, 8.2avg, 45/16 TD/INT 102.1 rating

So lets see Wilson has +8.4%completion, 7 more TD, 10 less INTs and a +23.3 Qb rating.
While he doesnt have the same amount of yards his avg is 1.3 higher. This doesnt even take into account Wilson wasnt even working with the first team until preseason where luck had the whole offseason as the #1 QB for reps his rookie year.

Do you know that Luck is only 1.5QB rating higher than Christian Ponder..yes CHRISTIAN PONDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is below all of these young QBs for QB rating
Newton 86.1
Kaep 91.7
Dalton 84.3
Tannehill 79.5
RG3 92
Foles 98.7
Stafford(age25) 84.2

So please enlighten me why Luck is the next greatest thing and will be one of the greats. Id LOVE to hear more about it backed up by Facts and Objectivity instead of the "eye test"

 

[mjwhitay]

But he looks so good on tape, though. Don't you see how big and strong he is? Did you know that he's very underrated athletically?

I think the Luck love is people calling him the second coming before he played a down and those people continue to back up their own opinions as to not look like a schmuck. Well.... Too late

 

[drdiags]

As far as Luck and his current projection, I think the scouts and FO type use history to determine their view of his talent. I look at someone like Elway, who didn't tear up the league early in his career but the physical talents everyone drooled over did eventually make him one of the all-time best QBs in the history of the game.

I think the national view on Luck is that his physical traits as well as his moxie makes the sky the limit for him. For Wilson, I still hear caveats and the "Yeah but" phrase. He will not be getting the royal treatment his fans want for him so badly. He is going to have to go out there and create his place in history. I don't begrudge Luck any of his accolades. I have a strong feeling he will live up to the hype. But only time will tell as far as parallel careers with those QBs that came into the league around the time he did.

 

[CoastStarlight]

I don't wanna be a jerk here, but I'm gonna play the race card. Luck "looks like a quarterback" to a lot of analysts--he looks like what we've seen as successful QBs in the league. He is tall, he is broad, he is white.

Wilson, on the other hand, is short, narrow, and brown. What is most important about him--his intelligence, his work ethic, his leadership--aren't things that show up immediately. They aren't measured by readily available metrics. And I think that's part of why he's been passed over; starting in the draft, continuing in the national conversation. He doesn't look like Manning, Brady, or even Brees. He's an outsider QB, which is why he's perfect for our outsider team.

Say I'm making too much of race? Perhaps. But I've heard twice lately in social situations that "we" need to cheer for the white quarterbacks. I really believe that for some people the position of QB is held as the last unassailable bastion of white supremacy in sports. And while I'm not outright pointing fingers (they were happy enough to consider RG3 part of the convo before he was RGknee), I can't help but wonder what the Luck/Wilson conversation would look like if that were the same.

 

[MidwestHawker]

Say I'm making too much of race?

Yep.

 

[chris98251]

I don't wanna be a jerk here, but I'm gonna play the race card. Luck "looks like a quarterback" to a lot of analysts--he looks like what we've seen as successful QBs in the league. He is tall, he is broad, he is white.

Wilson, on the other hand, is short, narrow, and brown. What is most important about him--his intelligence, his work ethic, his leadership--aren't things that show up immediately. They aren't measured by readily available metrics. And I think that's part of why he's been passed over; starting in the draft, continuing in the national conversation. He doesn't look like Manning, Brady, or even Brees. He's an outsider QB, which is why he's perfect for our outsider team.

Say I'm making too much of race? Perhaps. But I've heard twice lately in social situations that "we" need to cheer for the white quarterbacks. I really believe that for some people the position of QB is held as the last unassailable bastion of white supremacy in sports. And while I'm not outright pointing fingers (they were happy enough to consider RG3 part of the convo before he was RGknee), I can't help but wonder what the Luck/Wilson conversation would look like if that were the same.

I have never heard anyone bring race up when it comes to rooting for QB's in the last 10 or so years, well really since Warren Moon and Doug Williams proved everyone wrong, James Harris could be included in that conversation as well.

It's more sexy draft picks of 1st rounders versus a 3rd rounder that didn't meet measurables and now has made everyone have to eat crow or keep propping up the others in hopes Wilson falls flat as to say they told you so.

 

[HawkWow]

I don't wanna be a jerk here, but I'm gonna play the race card. Luck "looks like a quarterback" to a lot of analysts--he looks like what we've seen as successful QBs in the league. He is tall, he is broad, he is white.

Wilson, on the other hand, is short, narrow, and brown. What is most important about him--his intelligence, his work ethic, his leadership--aren't things that show up immediately. They aren't measured by readily available metrics. And I think that's part of why he's been passed over; starting in the draft, continuing in the national conversation. He doesn't look like Manning, Brady, or even Brees. He's an outsider QB, which is why he's perfect for our outsider team.

Say I'm making too much of race? Perhaps. But I've heard twice lately in social situations that "we" need to cheer for the white quarterbacks. I really believe that for some people the position of QB is held as the last unassailable bastion of white supremacy in sports. And while I'm not outright pointing fingers (they were happy enough to consider RG3 part of the convo before he was RGknee), I can't help but wonder what the Luck/Wilson conversation would look like if that were the same.

Naw. But I feel your question is legit. You got the "tall and broad" part but between Luck and Wilson, I've not heard any mention of race. Wilson has transcended race. He is shorter and scrambles and that's why, IMO, he sometimes gets less cred than Luck. But that's changing fast, too. I mentioned this in another thread but what's really cool about these two fine young men is if you asked them this question ("Luck or Wilson"), I have no doubt they wouldn't have to think and would instantly call the other superior. A lot of people in here, feel they need to show their devotion to Wilson by running down Luck. That's just unnecessary, IMO, and not indicative of true fans of the sport. It's OK to like them both.

 

[chris98251]

True fans can dislike a player becasue he is on another team, doesn't mean they don't respect him as a football player, the old AFC days this fan base hated and made all sorts of fun of John Elway, doesn't mean they didn't respect him as a player, just hated him for making highlight reel plays against us.

 

[HawkWow]

True fans can dislike a player becasue he is on another team, doesn't mean they don't respect him as a football player, the old AFC days this fan base hated and made all sorts of fun of John Elway, doesn't mean they didn't respect him as a player, just hated him for making highlight reel plays against us.

Great example. Being a lifelong Hawk fan, I dreaded Elway, same for Bo. But if I were starting my own team, Elway would be my QB and Bo my RB.

 

[Kakaww]

Wilson is quickly becoming my all time favorite Seattle athlete. Because of that, a part of me wants the world to appreciate his talent as much as I do. He gets a lot of respect, but there are still disbelievers out there. I think someone nailed it earlier that, as a less ballyhooed prospect, he will need to prove his greatness much more soundly before being compared favorably to he higher draft picks. Well, he has already eclipsed them all to the sports media, save for Luck.

So what are the current knocks on Wilson? (In the Wilson vs. Luck debate)

Wilson is on a better team and has the support of a very good run blocking OL and one of the best running backs in the league. This does offer him some great advantages that Luck doesn't have. The Hawks can pound the rock and take the pressure off of Russel so he doesn't have to make all the plays. I recall an overthrow problem early this season and I've also seen him reluctant at times to make difficult throws, so it hasn't been all roses. In watching the Colts, if Luck doesn't force those throws the Colts don't move the ball. This isn't a negative on Wilson as much as a disadvantage to Luck and leads to lower percentage passes and additional picks.

He is too short, which will make it more difficult to see over the OL (third tallest average height in league) and limit passing lanes. He doesn't get a disproportionate amount of balls tipped compared to his taller peers, but I do think it affects his game. I think there is a reason he is so good outside the pocket and looks to escape and work his magic. Perhaps it is just a coincidence, but I think it allows him to have a clearer vision of the field and the receivers to get more separation to make more secure thows. This scrambling style is amazing and effective but doesn't fit some peoples idea of what a real quarterback looks like (a statuesque figure in the pocket fixing lasers after 2 seconds.)

So, who is better? The numbers say Wilson and so does my gut. He is one of our guys and I wouldn't trade him for anyone. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Luck have a fantastic career. Both guys can read defenses, are great leaders and are clutch late in the game.

 

[Zorn76]

IMO, RW is mentally tougher than Luck at this point. I also think that's the key intangible for our QB that's seldom discussed, both in and out of the media.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

I used the Ask Russell App. He told me he is better than Luck.

Another thing to point out here, Luck has played 23 career games with a future HOF at WR. Ever since he went down, Luck has struggled immensely. Wilson hasn't had that kind of safety blanket, unless you think a current Seahawk WR is a future HOF.