Are the Seahawks ready for life after Marshawn?

[Smellyman]

I don't mind RB's blowing past people rather than through...

Watching CM at A&M though, he isn't exactly a soft daisy. he can bring it too. He is low to the ground, powerfully built and is always leaning forward...never upright. Wish we saw him more last year.

I haven't seen many back like ML, bringing punishment and getting punished play after play, year after year......yikes. Life after ML is like saying are they ready for life after Walter Jones? Kind of a league of their own.

I have faith in Pete.

 

[brimsalabim]

The way we currently prioritize the Oline we would not be successful running the ball with out beast mode. We would have to completely change how we value the OL in order to help the other three backs be successful. Of course the question also becomes can we hold on to those three backs each possessing a specific attribute that we require if we are putting more money into the OL ?

 

[HawKnPeppa]

You are kinda slow on the uptick Kearly. Your post is exactly what I have been telling you ever since you thought that Lynch was slowing down last year but you refused to listen to me.

Well next time he should just nod his head to whatever you say, genius. [emoji6]

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Great to see you writing novels again, Kearly. Hopefully plenty more to come.

I think our offensive identity will start to change this year, assuming that Bevell was serious when he said we're going RBBC.

Bevel's RBBC comment was in reference to training camp...he stated that clearly, so I don't know why some of you keep applying that comment to regular season.
That said, I wish they would give Michael more carries.

 

[Jac]

Great to see you writing novels again, Kearly. Hopefully plenty more to come.

I think our offensive identity will start to change this year, assuming that Bevell was serious when he said we're going RBBC.

Bevel's RBBC comment was in reference to training camp...he stated that clearly, so I don't know why some of you keep applying that comment to regular season.
That said, I wish they would give Michael more carries.

My thinking is that Bevell made that clarification in an attempt to avoid offseason controversy. Otherwise, it makes perfect sense. If you start splitting the load this year, you actually help extend his career. If a more balanced RBBC works, then I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Lynch is gone next year.

 

[TXHawk]

Pete has talked about the running game "closing the circle of toughness" on his team. Is Michael the type of RB who can close that circle of toughness? IMO, no he is not. And I really don't believe Carroll would change his philosophy to accommodate Michael's running style. That's not to say he can't be an extremely valuable member of this team. There was a time when Reggie Bush was the most important player on a Pete Carroll team. But the Bush thing worked because Pete also had LenDale White to punch the defense in the mouth. Citing the USC example does nothing to disprove the notion that Pete needs a punch-you-in-the-mouth runner -- it actually supports it.

I think Pete needs a bruiser and will always seek a bruiser. It's likely why they burned a pick on Ware to compliment Michael. It's the reason why they gave a fat LenDale White a second look and obsessed over getting Lynch. Marshawn Lynch is a dream RB in Pete Carroll's system -- elite production with a bruiser mentality. It may be unlikely that we ever find an RB like that again. Best case scenario may be to manufacture something similar with two backs -- the classic Bush/White 1-2 punch. I agree with kearly -- look for Seattle to burn high draft cap on a physical runner next year.

As of now, no, I don't think the Seahawks are ready at all for life after Lynch.

Closing the circle of toughness does not necessarily require a bruising back like Lynch, although that helps. The act of running the ball itself does that. The offensive line gets to explode off the ball and hit someone rather than backpedal and form a protective wall, and the receivers are also looking to hit someone rather than trying to evade their defenders. Running the ball allows offensive players to be aggressive and try to knock the hell out of the guy in front of them and that's the case whether you have Earl Campbell or Barry Sanders in your backfield.

The Seahawks with Alexander did not have a soft running attack; not with Hutch and Jones in the line. In fact that Hawks team was MUCH better at running the ball on short yardage situations and in the red zone than they have been with Lynch. That's not a knock on Lynch who has often been forced to create positive yardage out of nothing, just stating that upgrading the offensive line is more important in my opinion than trying to find a Lynch clone to run the ball.

If Carroll can find a bruiser to compliment Michael's explosiveness I'm sure he'll do that, but if not the goal will remain the same: a balanced offensive attack that creates explosive plays in both the running and passing game while forcing the other team to defend every inch of turf.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Lynch has an established identity around the league and his presence increases Seattle ' s offensive toughness factor significantly. However we were underdogs in some of those playoff games in people's eyes. Does his toughness on offense really play as big a difference as many of us think it is?
On the other hand our passing offense was perceived by pundits as weak when we all know it was clutch, tough and underrated. What's more is our tendencies to pound Lynch on early downs did hamper our playcalling and stalled drives. We have to move on from this Lynch - centric offense sooner rather than later because we have so many offensive weapons at their prime. Wilson is as cold - blooded as you get and with the great receiving talents he deserves more passing opportunities. He will continue to flourish as he had in college. CMike may not be the next Jim Brown but he appears to be like Emmett with shiftiness. I can live with that potential. We wont know his ceiling until we move forward.

 

[Natethegreat]

Closing the circle of toughness does not necessarily require a bruising back like Lynch, although that helps. The act of running the ball itself does that. The offensive line gets to explode off the ball and hit someone rather than backpedal and form a protective wall, and the receivers are also looking to hit someone rather than trying to evade their defenders. Running the ball allows offensive players to be aggressive and try to knock the hell out of the guy in front of them and that's the case whether you have Earl Campbell or Barry Sanders in your backfield.

The Seahawks with Alexander did not have a soft running attack; not with Hutch and Jones in the line. In fact that Hawks team was MUCH better at running the ball on short yardage situations and in the red zone than they have been with Lynch. That's not a knock on Lynch who has often been forced to create positive yardage out of nothing, just stating that upgrading the offensive line is more important in my opinion than trying to find a Lynch clone to run the ball.

If Carroll can find a bruiser to compliment Michael's explosiveness I'm sure he'll do that, but if not the goal will remain the same: a balanced offensive attack that creates explosive plays in both the running and passing game while forcing the other team to defend every inch of turf.[/quote]

Exactly, having a bruising runner is nice but not essential to wearing down a defense. Marshawn is a tone setter so I can see that angle as well however there are enough guys on this team who already have that attitude I doubt we lose it if he were to retire.

 

[Scottemojo]

The simple reality is that running backs with Marshawn's skill set and attitude are rare as hell. As result, our offensive philosophy will have to adapt.

Michael is a far less physical player. Not a knock, how many running backs are as physical as Marshawn? It is a pretty big gap between less physical and soft, and C-Mike has not played enough for us to get a real sense of his desire to inflict/escape punishment. Though there is a chance his poor pass pro is rooted in that nature. Which can be OK, plenty of talented backs thought of the sidelines as their good buddy, and Christine's future success will be a lot more tied to him being an outlet receiver than a great pass blocker.

Are the Seahawks ready for it? Denver didn't lose the nasty of it's offensive line after Terrell Davis was done. Coaching and player selection for the offensive line were more vital to their attitude that Terrell Davis' bruising style. I highly doubt our player selection is on that level, but we have some nasty. The Hawks are committed to the big play, and committed to play action, so in that sense, Yes, we are ready. But our offense isn't even committed to 5 starting linemen, so far under Pete the offensive line has been the least stable part of the team, so in another sense, how could we possibly know if we are ready for life after Marshawn when we don't even know for sure who will be blocking for us?

 

[volsunghawk]

Explosiveness can be just as intimidating to an opponent as toughness/brutality. I don't think anyone considered the 1999 Rams to be a tough, brutal team, but people learned very quickly to fear that offense.

 

[Giblien]

Agreed. Lynch has made it easy to forget just how BAD our running game was between 2006 and 2010. Remember those years? Ugh...

I never want to fall into the pit of hell again. Thankfully, I think Pete has a much better way of approaching the run game than Holmy or Mora.

 

[ZagHawk]

I felt like 2013 was a decrease in Beast's production (compared to 2012). As beast gets less reps in 2014 and probably has even less production, I think it'll help everyone transition. Turbo has a similar running style, but his production isn't there (I feel like any big run he ever broke often got brought back).

 

[RolandDeschain]

Wasn't Browner at least as important as Beast Mode when it comes to our team mentality? I don't recall Sherman ever saying Beast Mode yelled at him for taking it easy on somebody like Browner did.

I'm not worried about it because it has truly become a team mentality at this point, to be tough as nails.

 

[volsunghawk]

I'm not worried about it because it has truly become a team mentality at this point, to be tough as nails.

Agreed. It was one thing when this team had no real identity and PC/JS were still making what they could out of the remnants of the 2009 team and whatever bodies they could pick up on the FA side of things. Lynch was huge in helping define the new Seahawks identity and mentality. But that doesn't mean he's the ONLY guy exhibiting it. I think we've got it in every unit on the team.

 

[Anthony!]

I fear many might be missing the point of Kearly's post. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he is asking if we can replace the production of Marshawn. As a Michael believer, he has to believe that we could get somewhere close on paper.

What we will have a more difficult time replacing is the mentality. The Seahawks as they are built now are back-alley brawlers. They want to take all of their opponents high-flying pretty weapons, and your their LB's and undersized safeties, and throw those guys into the middle of a brawl to the death. The Seahawks don't want to play an aesthetically pleasing football match. They want to physically bully you into a pulp and leave your carcass for the paramedics. And we've got the meanest, baddest dude on the block, and he's pissed.

I know 95% here won't agree, but Marshawn is the most important player on our team. All of this LOB and tough guy mentality doesn't work the same without a guy literally nicknamed "The Beast". We want to intimidate. We want to line up on the field and make you pee your pants. The four guys that really built this persona for us were Marshawn, Red, Browner, and Kam. Two of those guys are gone now. The most important two are still here, but they have to carry that torch if we want to be feared the same way we have been for the past two years.

Without Marshawn, a lot changes. We're no longer the baddest dude around. Defenses don't fear getting their helmet ripped off. We'll rely on the pretty play of Michael and the arm of the golden child. I'm quite sure it will be effective, but it isn't the same thing. There is more to this than 4.2 YPC and Skittles.

Well you are right about not agreeing with you about ML being the most important player on the team, as we all know that is the QB. However I get your point, and believe like any other team they will adapt. They could adapt and be just as good, or be better or be worse. We will have to wait and see. However given you have a QB who runs 30 yards down filed to try to knock down a batted pass, and DBs who like to intimidate and hit you I think we will be fine.

 

[jammerhawk]

Marshawn is undoubtedly a stud and would/will be hard to replace.

Of course the team likely has a plan for what will happen if Marshawn can't play, but are they ready? Doubtful b/c he is still here and looks still able to play well.

None of the RBs we have as reserves are as talented or as tough as Lynch, but they could possibly become so with more touches.

One of the truths of the world is that change happens, and nothing ever stays entirely the same. Just having Harvin running more fly sweeps and more spot duty from each of Michael and Turbin will change how Lynch is used in terms of frequency of use at the least. Does that mean the team will lose their personna as a punch you in the face team? I doubt it, b/c the personna is part of the essential identity of the team. The circle of toughness as it has been described herein will still be present and closed and the Hawks are unlikely to be pushed around on either side of the ball. If that were to happen changes would be made by Pn'J.

Things will start to be somewhat different this year and perhaps there may be some greater explosiveness to the O but controlling the clock and punching the other team in the mouth will still be part of the focus of the O and of the D. True comments exist in this thoughtful thread on almost every point. Lynch is special, Michael is an exceptional athlete and could be special but perhaps never quite as special as Lynch (I think we haven't seen a large enough sample size to judge fairly either way), Turbin while tough runs top heavy or is easily ankle tackled, and Ware could be a Lynch-lite guy who may never get to see enough of the ball to show it. Short yardage running has been a problem for the past few seasons and that may be squarely blamed on weak OLine play which needs to improve in terms of short yardage blocking. Maybe the Oline will finally be healthy this season and will play better. Maybe Lynch's replacement isn't even in the league yet or on the team, but maybe that is wrong.

When the change happens and Lynch eventually leaves the FO will take advantage of the special abilities of the guys they have on the roster or they acquire to replace the toughness or they will coach up the guys they already have to play tougher. I can't see Pete ever converting to a finesse style O that doesn't use the clock and doesn't slug it out with opposing Ds.

Good thread, interesting discussion.

 

[jammerhawk]

Oops , my bad. Stupid double post.

 

[seedhawk]

I believe that even on the day we signed ML, PC and JS had a plan to replace him. Heck, average NFL lifespans are short as can be anyways. ML's persona will never be either replaced or replicated. He is indeed unique.

Could it be we wound up where we are today, as a team, simply because PC became used to turning over his entire team every 3-4 years? Did JS buy in to that line of thinking? Considering some of our draft choices, and the rounds they were picked in, looks to me like PC and JS look on the draft and free agency as recruiting season. Is this the reason we seem to lead the league in uncovering UDFA gems and 5th to 7th round wonders?

 

[Lords of Scythia]

The Seahawks are already preparing for a life after Marshawn by taking recievers in the draft in prep for the day the offense is a passing offense run by Wilson.

 

[jammerhawk]

Lords, I genuinely expect that day will never come and the team will always be a run first team with Pete and John in charge of things.