Archie Manning

[Scottemojo]

That's really not germane to the discussion.

Accusing me of only looking at one side while you do the same on the other side of the spectrum and me calling you out on it with you denying it isn't germane?

I...see. Sort of. Not really. Carry on, deflect away.

Roland, everybody leans one way or the other. Or doesn't give a shit. But nobody knows all the facts and is impartial. Which does not mean they can't be objective.

You apparently want special rules to keep a player from pulling an Eli Manning. And apparently you wanted some sort of sanction at the time, right?

As I see it, you think that a player agreeing to be in the draft should take away his right of first refusal. Correct? Submitting to the draft process should make pulling an Eli impossible, right? Please, just give me a single word answer, yes or no. No wiggling. I'm not laying some trap, I just don't really want to go back and interpret a zillion words of analogies and comparisons.

 

[pehawk]

And also, we need to come up with a dot.net road game viewing party. I want to be the first to buy Roland a beer, this is why.

I'll host the damn thing if need be. I did once before, but I dropped a bunch of acid and lit a bunch of shit on fire, so, for all I know Roland was there.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I already flat-out said you should not be able to pull an Eli, very clearly, earlier in this thread.

"Submitting to the draft process should make pulling an Eli impossible, right?"

Yes.

Now, if I can elaborate on one small point, I think players should be able to do it IF they pay a severe penalty. As in, what I suggested earlier; a two-year suspension/ban from the league, or something like that. SIGNIFICANT disincentive. The draft should not be susceptible to "Well, I didn't like my cards, I call a misdeal. Round two; fight!" Remember in the recent past when we were a place players wanted to avoid? What if Walter Jones had pulled this and we had to trade him and we received Ryan Leaf for him, or something? A single player should not be able to override what the GM of a freaking team wants to do in the draft.

Right of first refusal for drafting NFL players? Seriously? We'd probably wind up with half the players in the draft saying "No thanks" up on stage. It'd be a disaster.

 

[Scottemojo]

I already flat-out said you should not be able to pull an Eli, very clearly, earlier in this thread.

"Submitting to the draft process should make pulling an Eli impossible, right?"

Yes.

Now, if I can elaborate on one small point, I think players should be able to do it IF they pay a severe penalty. As in, what I suggested earlier; a two-year suspension/ban from the league, or something like that. SIGNIFICANT disincentive. The draft should not be susceptible to "Well, I didn't like my cards, I call a misdeal. Round two; fight!" Remember in the recent past when we were a place players wanted to avoid? What if Walter Jones had pulled this and we had to trade him and we received Ryan Leaf for him, or something? A single player should not be able to override what the GM of a freaking team wants to do in the draft.

Right of first refusal for drafting NFL players? Seriously? We'd probably wind up with half the players in the draft saying "No thanks" up on stage. It'd be a disaster.

Right of first refusal simply means they don't have to sign a contract with the team that drafts them. When Bo Jackson refused to sign with the Buccaneers, he exercised his right of first refusal.

 

[pehawk]

I already flat-out said you should not be able to pull an Eli, very clearly, earlier in this thread.

"Submitting to the draft process should make pulling an Eli impossible, right?"

Yes.

Now, if I can elaborate on one small point, I think players should be able to do it IF they pay a severe penalty. As in, what I suggested earlier; a two-year suspension/ban from the league, or something like that. SIGNIFICANT disincentive. The draft should not be susceptible to "Well, I didn't like my cards, I call a misdeal. Round two; fight!" Remember in the recent past when we were a place players wanted to avoid? What if Walter Jones had pulled this and we had to trade him and we received Ryan Leaf for him, or something? A single player should not be able to override what the GM of a freaking team wants to do in the draft.

Right of first refusal for drafting NFL players? Seriously? We'd probably wind up with half the players in the draft saying "No thanks" up on stage. It'd be a disaster.

So, you want the NFL draftees to submit to rules without ever getting paid or being a professional? They're not in the NFL yet...? Makes sense you support Goodell though. He suspended Pryor for something he did as a student.

 

[RolandDeschain]

You're confusing supporting Goodell with being intelligent enough to realize nearly everything people blame him for is at the behest of the owners, Pe.

@Scotte: You can buy your championships in baseball, and it's a part of why America's sport is now football, not baseball any longer.

 

[pehawk]

I'm sure the owners wanted Pryor suspended. Makes sense.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Too dumb of a reply to respond to.

 

[pehawk]

Baseball doesn't have a salary cap, or revenue sharing. It's not germane.

And no, its not a dumb reply.

 

[Scottemojo]

Here is the problem, Roland. And it isn't hypothetical.

If A player has to sign with the team that drafts him, his negotiating stance is severely reduced. Holdoing out his contract, for up to a year even, is the only leverage he has.

Exhibit A. Bo Jackson. Bo was drafted in the first round by the Bucs in late April, 1986, while in the beginning of baseball season. Just before the baseball draft, where Bo could have gone in the first round (Bo still hadn't said he would not pursue baseball, and may have been using it as leverage in a contract with the Bucs), The Bucs flew him to Tampa for a physical. According to Bo, who had only millions to lose if he was lying, the Bucs told him it had been cleared with the NCAA, and would not hurt his college eligibility (he was flat killing it for Auburn right about then). It had not been cleared with the NCAA, he lost his remaining college eligibility, and is still convinced the Bucs sabotaged him to protect their first pick in the draft status.

Sure enough, shortly afterward, every team in baseball passed on him several times. He went in the 4th to the Royals. He swore then he would never sign with the Buccaneers.

If things were as you propose, he would have been forced to sign with the Bucs. Or pay a severe penalty, two years out of the NFL, for refusing to sign with a possibly dishonest group.

 

[pehawk]

"I want to be able to illegally post the NFL's trademark product, free of charge, I dont have to listen to them. But 21yo's should just do what the NFL wants before ever becoming professional" - Roland

 

[RolandDeschain]

Pehawk's just trolling. I'm exiting the conversation. (Also, what in the world makes you think I would want a beer from you, Ryan?) Suffice to say I disagree in terms of letting people cop out of the team that drafted them when it comes to the NFL, and we're still all BFFs; nothing personal.

Once-in-several-decades occurrences like Bo Jackson's instance shouldn't be the determining factor for something like this, and the Bucs should not have been allowed to get away with that crap.

That being said, top prospects should triple-check everything through a sports contract attorney. Look at what happened with the 49er that lost that huge workout bonus. You have to watch out for yourself. (No, that doesn't include whining to get to another team in my book, Pe.)

Seriously, though; I'm exiting the convo, don't expect further responses from me.

 

[pehawk]

I'm not trolling. I guess you can use that as a veiled way to exit, but I'm not trolling.

 

[Scottemojo]

Pehawk's just trolling. I'm exiting the conversation. (Also, what in the world makes you think I would want a beer from you, Ryan?) Suffice to say I disagree in terms of letting people cop out of the team that drafted them when it comes to the NFL, and we're still all BFFs; nothing personal.

Once-in-several-decades occurrences like Bo Jackson's instance shouldn't be the determining factor for something like this, and the Bucs should not have been allowed to get away with that crap.

That being said, top prospects should triple-check everything through a sports contract attorney. Look at what happened with the 49er that lost that huge workout bonus. You have to watch out for yourself. (No, that doesn't include whining to get to another team in my book, Pe.)

Seriously, though; I'm exiting the convo, don't expect further responses from me.

How many times have players refused to sign? 3 or 4 total?

Take away the right of first refusal, add a 2 year ban for not signing, and what happened to Bo would be commonplace.