Why Are Fans So Upset?

[Maelstrom787]

Our lines, man!

There is this thought swimming around here that just cause Seattle has some talent, it’s enough to win consistently….

Everything always goes back to trench warfare!

Seattle does NOT have enough talent in both trenches right now to showcase just how talented its skill positions really are.

You can think of the secondary has the “skill position” of the defense and defensive line has maybe one solid game wrecker right now in Murphy/Mafe/Williams.

Murph is still a rookie. Mafe has been injured. Williams can’t do everything by himself.

The offensive line has one high blue collar talent pick in Charles Cross, and everyone else is either nothing more than depth guys are the next best piece has a significant injury.

Pretty much sums up how awful Seattle is.

The common denominator is when Seattle loses and really loses, they are abused, taken out to the woodshed and hammered in the trenches on both sides.

This is the root of Seattle’s problem.

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, John Schneider sucks at drafting offensive line and his system where this isn’t enough “value” for drafting offensive early is a foundational error that he has resided over for more than decade now.

Schneider needs to reevaluate his “value” system and or step aside because his talent for scouting lineman (both offense and defense) has been abysmal for the past 8 years or so.

We need a new GM honestly.

I don’t know if that means moving on from Mac early or not, I’d rather keep Mac, honestly, and move on from Schneider this year.

But, we will have to see how this plays out…..

Seattle is an average team at BEST, hovering around .500 at 8-9, 9-8 or so….

It’s just too inconsistent to be contenders.

Let’s not fool ourselves, anymore.

Williams, Murphy, Reed, and Hankins combined with Mafe and Hall on the edges is a pretty formidable on-ball rotation. That's actually almost certainly a top 10 unit.

OL, sure, lacking talent - but we'd have bookends if Lucas had held up and Connor Williams is an acceptable center under most circumstances.

There's something nasty going on here coaching-wise. It shouldn't be this bad.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Eh...The Seahawks' FO certainly doesn't see themselves as an average-to-bad team. I mean, rewatch those offseason press conferences and tell me you honestly believe THEY thought this team would be last place in the division. They talked about playoffs and failed expectations after a nine-win season. Here's John's opening line from his first press conference this season.



Seattle suffered its worst home loss in seven years. What do you think Jody and Vulcan, the ones setting these expectations, will think if things continue trending downward?

You don't think JS is spouting this stuff because he is feeling the noose tighten. He's on the hot seat too and probably should have been let go with Pete.

What will Jody and Vulcan think? They'll be wondering why the Oline is so bad when there were years and years for improvement. They'll be thinking the defense is bad, but not as bad as the past couple of season's. They'll also wonder why they waited so long for change and how they let it get to this point.

You are always talking about the high expectations the organization and JS. Don't you realize they are saying what they should be saying? Also, nobody on this planet, whether it's fans, NFL pundits, coaches, or FO's truly believes this roster has the talent to compete for the big prize. That's just not realistic.

 

[kidhawk]

I understand what your saying, but Pete had an advantage at the time. He grabbed up a punishing RB with an attitude that thrived on yards after contact, he drafted a QB that could run and improvise and was good enough to start from the outset, and he had an inside lock on college talent he zeroed in on. Not to mention the league was different back then. All that being said, he still went 7-9 his first season. What everybody around here is alluding to is, if MM goes 7-10 (extra game now) he should be hind and quartered and sent packing. It's crazy.

I think you aren’t understanding where I was going no with that. I’m not saying it shouldn’t take some time to build a winner. Far from it. I’m happy to give Macdonald another season (assuming we don’t lose out). What I mean is that the players he decided to keep around even year one may not have been the most talented we had when he got here, but they bought in and it created a team environment.

I want to be clear that I don’t think we need to follow how Pete ran the team our new staff will have their own way but it still needs to build a team and right now it seems to be just relying on each individual. Football is the ultimate team sport. Individuality (or selfishness) on the field won’t work.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Williams, Murphy, Reed, and Hankins combined with Mafe and Hall on the edges is a pretty formidable on-ball rotation. That's actually almost certainly a top 10 unit.

OL, sure, lacking talent - but we'd have bookends if Lucas had held up and Connor Williams is an acceptable center under most circumstances.

There's something nasty going on here coaching-wise. It shouldn't be this bad.

If the combo of Williams, Murph, Reed, and Hankins really as good as we believe it to be, why are we getting smashed and gashed and it’s so one sided? I get it if the battles are somewhat even but yesterdays game, we had this combo in and they got pushed around, or contained or was a non factor. Are we sure the defensive line is as talented as we want it to be? We should not get bulldozered more than half the time then.

Is it now a coaching thing? Is the system missing more pieces? I’m sure it all could be better obviously but we need to figure out why Seattle gets abused by top 10 teams in the league. Is it Seattle is missing more talent or we have misjudged our own current talent?

Seattle is rather consistent with being inconsistent….

 

[pittpnthrs]

Seattle does NOT have enough talent in both trenches right now to showcase just how talented its skill positions really are.

Perfectly said. Doesn't matter how many shiney toys you have if you can't use them.

 

[Seak]

I understand what your saying, but Pete had an advantage at the time. He grabbed up a punishing RB with an attitude that thrived on yards after contact, he drafted a QB that could run and improvise and was good enough to start from the outset, and he had an inside lock on college talent he zeroed in on. Not to mention the league was different back then. All that being said, he still went 7-9 his first season. What everybody around here is alluding to is, if MM goes 7-10 (extra game now) he should be hind and quartered and sent packing. It's crazy.

I see both sides of it too, after games like that my pitchforks are out.
The next day though I realize we gotta give him a bit of time. Let the Adams dead cap go away and give him an actual 2nd round pick to work with.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I think you aren’t understanding where I was going no with that. I’m not saying it shouldn’t take some time to build a winner. Far from it. I’m happy to give Macdonald another season (assuming we don’t lose out). What I mean is that the players he decided to keep around even year one may not have been the most talented we had when he got here, but they bought in and it created a team environment.

I want to be clear that I don’t think we need to follow how Pete ran the team our new staff will have their own way but it still needs to build a team and right now it seems to be just relying on each individual. Football is the ultimate team sport. Individuality (or selfishness) on the field won’t work.

I understand now what your saying. The team/family atmosphere, culture thing. Yeah that worked great for a few years (dissipated in 15'), but it was easier for them because they were good and they won. This roster is not good.

 

[kidhawk]

I understand now what you’re saying. The team/family atmosphere, culture thing. Yeah that worked great for a few years (dissipated in 15'), but it was easier for them because they were good and they won. This roster is not good.

Except I mean even when they weren’t good like season 1. I’ve had some time on my hands and watched a lot of games from Pete’s first year through the 2013 title and even when we weren’t great yet you could feel them growing together. Where this team seems to be staying apart.

 

[Seak]

Except I mean even when they weren’t good like season 1. I’ve had some time on my hands and watched a lot of games from Pete’s first year through the 2013 title and even when we weren’t great yet you could feel them growing together. Where this team seems to be staying apart.

Watching games knowing the outcome is gonna make them "feel" different
Still 9 games to go this season to see whats really up

 

[Maelstrom787]

If the combo of Williams, Murph, Reed, and Hankins really as good as we believe it to be, why are we getting smashed and gashed and it’s so one sided? I get it if the battles are somewhat even but yesterdays game, we had this combo in and they got pushed around, or contained or was a non factor. Are we sure the defensive line is as talented as we want it to be? We should not get bulldozered more than half the time then.

Is it now a coaching thing? Is the system missing more pieces? I’m sure it all could be better obviously but we need to figure out why Seattle gets abused by top 10 teams in the league. Is it Seattle is missing more talent or we have misjudged our own current talent?

Seattle is rather consistent with being inconsistent….

To my eyes and from what most of the film guys say, we're getting gashed because we're not cohesively fitting the run. Not because we're just getting outmatched on talent.

That's coaching.

Baltimore's 2023 defense faltered in run D down the stretch too.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's coaching AND it's the players.

 

[Appyhawk]

Connor Williams is an acceptable center under most circumstances.

Yes he is. But he made two VERY costly mistakes yesterday one could extrapolate into being a 28 point turnaround. Buffalo scored 31 points in the game. That is a helluva deciding factor.

 

[AgentDib]

There is leeway (or should be). The clear vision is that the roster doesn't have the talent or skills to execute what needs to be executed. The Oline is poor, the LB corp is poor, and the secondary is still underwhelming. Until those things are fixed, the team is handcuffed. It's going to take a couple seasons of drafts and free agency to get bodies to fill in the gaps.

While I agree with most of this, I am curious how you square this with thinking that coaching was our problem last season - and perhaps I'm misremembering your stance.

Are you hoping that the personnel was PC dictating bad ideas to Schneider? If so, why haven't our off-season moves this year worked out very well so far, just the adjustment period to a new scheme (hopefully)?

 

[Chukarhawk]

to expect a turnaround after 8 games is childish. This roster isn't good. there are some pieces for sure, but we lack physicality across the board.

 

[projectorfreak]

Conner effed up our 2 chances of keeping it close early but if JS isn't more to blame than i can't really get it
JS either let pete over pay and or misjudged talent so that seems to be more on the scouts and gm than anyone , i hate to say it but ya gotta draft some linemen early and hope they don't have injury concerns down the road
How we have almost no cap to do much about it would be all on the gm would it not

 

[pittpnthrs]

While I agree with most of this, I am curious how you square this with thinking that coaching was our problem last season - and perhaps I'm misremembering your stance.

Are you hoping that the personnel was PC dictating bad ideas to Schneider? If so, why haven't our off-season moves this year worked out very well so far, just the adjustment period to a new scheme (hopefully)?

Good question. With Pete, I thought we had the wrong personnel trying to do things they weren't able to, but it seemed it was that way for a long time. I also thought Pete was clouded into thinking they could learn how to do things their bodies and minds just wouldn't allow them to. And then there was the inability to draft or get the right guys. Whether that's a Pete problem or a JS problem, I don't know.

I think the off season moves this year were hobbled with desperation and hopes that any improvement would be better even if slight. In another word, MM is picking people he really doesn't want, but has no choice because they are all that's out there. It's possible also that he might not be the right guy, but i'd like to give him time to prove that. He does have a good track record for building good defenses, so let's wait and see.

 

[Ycrew]

Could they not see or understand the state of the team? The Hawks are an average to bad team and have been for the past 3 or so seasons. For the life of me, I don't know how anybody truly thought they would beat Buffalo. There's an enomous amount of things that need fixed with only so many resources and so much time. I said it earlier on that I thought Seattle was probably the worst team in the division and that may be true. MM might not be the answer long term, but he's a proven defensive guy and he at least should have the team headed in the right direction by year 3. So calm down. It's going to be a process and it should have been expected.

Woah before you go there many .net fans was pissed at how Seattle power rankings was after 3-0 and during preseason some were saying 8-10 wins

 

[pittpnthrs]

Woah before you go there many .net fans was pissed at how Seattle power rankings was after 3-0 and during preseason some were saying 8-10 wins

Not sure if your validating my point or not. I said to slow the roll after the 3-0 start (i'm even guilty of thinking we may have been a little better than what we truly are), but I knew it was going to be a process with up's and down's. The Bills prediction thread blew my mind though. I couldn't believe fans were so heavy on Seattle winning that game. I know there's always a chance, but I felt it was slim to none. Buffalo has struggled some, but they are still way better than Seattle.

 

[Ostatehawk]

Is this team really underperforming? or are we hanging onto the underperformance of other teams as what this team is capable of? Maybe this team is not under or overperforming, and is just...performing what it is.

I can shoot 10 three pointers in basketball and maybe 3-4 shots I will actually make, but when I miss the other 6-7 (or realistically 8 lol) does that suddenly mean I'm underperforming what I'm capable of shooting? No..I'm performing as expected.

It means you are better at shooting threes than Angel Reese.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good question. With Pete, I thought we had the wrong personnel trying to do things they weren't able to, but it seemed it was that way for a long time. I also thought Pete was clouded into thinking they could learn how to do things their bodies and minds just wouldn't allow them to. And then there was the inability to draft or get the right guys. Whether that's a Pete problem or a JS problem, I don't know.

I think the off season moves this year were hobbled with desperation and hopes that any improvement would be better even if slight. In another word, MM is picking people he really doesn't want, but has no choice because they are all that's out there. It's possible also that he might not be the right guy, but i'd like to give him time to prove that. He does have a good track record for building good defenses, so let's wait and see.

I know I didn't want to slow my roll after 3-0. Now......I absolutely have.