What about our LB corps?

[Evil_Shenanigans]

After watching, and re watching last week’s game I have been wondering what the issue is with our Line backing group? To the eye test Wagner has looked superb but the numbers don't necessarily agree. KJ wright has been truly abysmal compared to last season, and yes his numbers support that. I am sure he would be the first to tell you that last game was a personal hell for him. Malcolm Smith looked completely out of his element in pass coverage last weekend as well. We got eaten alive over the middle and everyone saw it. Now I know these guys are all great ball players and have historically been very solid in the overall defensive scheme of things, but this would seem to be nearly as big an issue as our O-Line issues to me. I came across the article linked below today that brought this all to the forefront for me.

So what to do? First I think that the addition of Bruce Irvin is going to help tremendously. So then what? Ask Kam and Earl to play a little tighter? This could open up the deep game and nobody wants that. Farwell isn’t really on the field enough to have much of an impact and we just got rid of Lotuleilei and Bradford. Thoughts?


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1797 ... ark/page/9

 

[Basis4day]

Had me until "Bleacher Report"

 

[Hawks46]

I don't care about who writes it, our LBers were the weakness in coverage last year, and it hasn't improved.

I had written it off to younger players still learning the NFL, but you'd like to see SOME improvement, and I see none.

 

[DavidSeven]

I listened to Wagner on the radio yesterday, and he said part of the Texans' success against the LB group was missed assignments and part of it was that the Texans just ran better plays on occassion. I think that sounds about right. Our LB corp has the physical talent to be successful. Problems arise when they're out of position due to a missed assignment or a defeated scheme. These things are correctable, so I'm not too concerned. From a pure talent standpoint, I think we're very strong at LB. Just a matter of calling the right coverage and coaching our guys up.

 

[mjwhitay]

You deal with it, because every team is going to do it, all game long. Receivers don't generally get open on the outside against this team. Everyone one will pound the middle of the field against them.

You know what that means? Teams will have to drive down field picking up small chunks over the middle, over and over. Then, most teams don't have the running game to capitalize when they get down there like Houston does. Then teams will make a call like the Texans did and Sherman will take it back to the house.

You can't have it all. Better to get 'destroyed' over the middle in 5-10 yard chunks then to get bombed on over and over.

 

[Hawknballs]

last week's game is a poor game to watch becuase we were doing some weird things with our defense that didn't seem to work.

Our defense relies on a few things:

1.) Earl's ability to cover the whole field. This allows us to bring Kam up as basically another linebacker for run support or to cover TE's and receivers over the middle
2.) Press coverage on the outside - because we aren't a team that blitzes heavily we must disrupt timing to force the QB to hold the ball until the 4 or sometimes 5 man rush can get there
3.) Possibly the best man-coverage CB in the league (sherman) and one who's pretty good too (browner) doing what they do best (man coverage)

Last game we kinda got away from these things because we were often playing zone coverage with 2-deep zones. Sometimes it was Kam in zone, sometimes it was Sherman. Either way it ended up giving a lot of cushion to the receivers, and also put our LB's in a position where they weren't quite as sure what their assignments were as opposed to the way we just usually line up and play D. Less jamming at the line meant that well-run routes and good timing could beat us, and did beat us. Basically we were sort of playing out of our element, especially in the LB position. I was super confused why we did this.

Long story short I just wouldn't look at last game as a measuring stick for the LB's.

The only thing bringing Irvin in as a LB does is add that 5th rusher that in the past we were hesitant to bring; because Earl is so good and can cover the field we only need that 1-high safety; Irvin can be free to rush and Kam fills in as the coverage LB. I say "the only thing" but that's a pretty big thing. I dunno about sacks but Irvin should be able to cause some serious pressure once he finds his groove.

If our LB's know who they should be covering, they are generally pretty decent. However they can be confused or schemed to being less than optimal in coverage. But they are primarily there to stop the run; that's job 1.

 

[12thMan1]

As far as KJ goes, I'm not sure what's going on with him. There's no production but I don't really notice where he's messing up that much either. Utimately, I think it comes down to the coaches' play calling on defense. It seems like they're getting burned due to poor match ups.

 

[Basis4day]

I don't care about who writes it, our LBers were the weakness in coverage last year, and it hasn't improved.

I had written it off to younger players still learning the NFL, but you'd like to see SOME improvement, and I see none.

Look at our secondary. What LB corp isn't going to look weaker in coverage compared to that? Isn't it possible that you're perceiving it as a glaring weakness this year because other teams are hesitant to throw outside or deep? Is our defensive philosophy not clearly based on preventing the big play? Isn't bend don't break the mantra?

There were issues against the Texans and players have admitted as such. And when it comes down to it, yards against our Defense is a fantasy football stat. Only points scored matters.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I thought they were using KJ differently this year?

Perhaps that accounts for the change?

I noticed he isn't standing out solid like he was last year, but hopeful that changes for him/us.

 

[12thMan1]

I don't care about who writes it, our LBers were the weakness in coverage last year, and it hasn't improved.

I had written it off to younger players still learning the NFL, but you'd like to see SOME improvement, and I see none.

Look at our secondary. What LB corp isn't going to look weaker in coverage compared to that? Isn't it possible that you're perceiving it as a glaring weakness this year because other teams are hesitant to throw outside or deep? Is our defensive philosophy not clearly based on preventing the big play? Isn't bend don't break the mantra?

There were issues against the Texans and players have admitted as such. And when it comes down to it, yards against our Defense is a fantasy football stat. Only points scored matters.

It would be nice if our secondary rarely ever had to touch the ball because our front seven stopped the run and because the opposing QB never had the chance to throw it past the line of scrimmage.

 

[Basis4day]

I thought they were using KJ differently this year?

Perhaps that accounts for the change?

I noticed he isn't standing out solid like he was last year, but hopeful that changes for him/us.

The moved him from SAM to WILL with the anticipation of Irvin playing SAM.

I'm just not seeing these glaring problems in the defense that others are. We held the panthers to 7 points in Carolina. We held SF to a field goal at home. The Jags were held scoreless against the starters in the first half. All of the Texans points came in the 2nd quarter and they were held scoreless for the entire second half and OT.

Am i off my rocker thinking this way?

 

[Basis4day]

I don't care about who writes it, our LBers were the weakness in coverage last year, and it hasn't improved.

I had written it off to younger players still learning the NFL, but you'd like to see SOME improvement, and I see none.

Look at our secondary. What LB corp isn't going to look weaker in coverage compared to that? Isn't it possible that you're perceiving it as a glaring weakness this year because other teams are hesitant to throw outside or deep? Is our defensive philosophy not clearly based on preventing the big play? Isn't bend don't break the mantra?

There were issues against the Texans and players have admitted as such. And when it comes down to it, yards against our Defense is a fantasy football stat. Only points scored matters.

It would be nice if our secondary rarely ever had to touch the ball because our front seven stopped the run and because the opposing QB never had the chance to throw it past the line of scrimmage.

Only "nice"? We'd be riding the best defense of all time if that was the case.

 

[ErikG803]

Not that it's anything near scientific but I thought it was interesting PFF has Malcolm Smith as their highest rated 4-3 OLB in the NFL. Not a very high standard this year apparently but still an interesting note.

 

[CANHawk]

Had me until "Bleacher Report"

You really need to take a look at who wrote the article before completely writing off BR as nonsense. Keith Myers wrote that article. Keith used to run the 12th man rising blog. He knows his stuff more or less. He does his homework and doesn't just regurgitate the national media like most on BR do. Some might not like him, but I think he's okay. He ain't no Schefter, but who is? He's more like a slightly less bipolar Hawkblogger.

The article is on the mark for the most part IMO. The backers look pretty good against the run and pretty bad against the pass. Nothing we don't already know. I think his grade of B is a little too generous IMO, but whatev.

I don't think Irvin coming back is going to do much to bolster the lb corps against the pass, other than having Irvin in the backfield getting in the QB's face all the time. I'm kind of starting to question moving KJ over the the weak side. Being the Sam seemed to play to his strengths, he was playing the run and covering the flat. Playing Will seems to expose his weaknesses; less playing the run, playing more of a deeper zone, relying on quickness he doesn't really have. I wonder if there would be any merrit in swapping Bobby and KJ at all..? Use KJ's bigger body for run stuffing and Bobby's speed against the pass? Guess we don't need to mess with the recipe if it's working, but those shallow routes seem to be a real weakness against this group. At this rate, Manning would destroy them with that quick hit game he plays...

 

[12thMan1]

I don't care about who writes it, our LBers were the weakness in coverage last year, and it hasn't improved.

I had written it off to younger players still learning the NFL, but you'd like to see SOME improvement, and I see none.

Look at our secondary. What LB corp isn't going to look weaker in coverage compared to that? Isn't it possible that you're perceiving it as a glaring weakness this year because other teams are hesitant to throw outside or deep? Is our defensive philosophy not clearly based on preventing the big play? Isn't bend don't break the mantra?

There were issues against the Texans and players have admitted as such. And when it comes down to it, yards against our Defense is a fantasy football stat. Only points scored matters.

It would be nice if our secondary rarely ever had to touch the ball because our front seven stopped the run and because the opposing QB never had the chance to throw it past the line of scrimmage.

Only "nice"? We'd be riding the best defense of all time if that was the case.

Touche'!!!

 

[Hawknballs]

bleacher report has improved quite a bit since merging with CNN.

Still has a lot of opinion and bias but overall the quality level is decent.

 

[Basis4day]

Had me until "Bleacher Report"

You really need to take a look at who wrote the article before completely writing off BR as nonsense. Keith Myers wrote that article. Keith used to run the 12th man rising blog. He knows his stuff more or less. He does his homework and doesn't just regurgitate the national media like most on BR do. Some might not like him, but I think he's okay. He ain't no Schefter, but who is? He's more like a slightly less bipolar Hawkblogger.

The article is on the mark for the most part IMO. The backers look pretty good against the run and pretty bad against the pass. Nothing we don't already know. I think his grade of B is a little too generous IMO, but whatev.

I don't think Irvin coming back is going to do much to bolster the lb corps against the pass, other than having Irvin in the backfield getting in the QB's face all the time. I'm kind of starting to question moving KJ over the the weak side. Being the Sam seemed to play to his strengths, he was playing the run and covering the flat. Playing Will seems to expose his weaknesses; less playing the run, playing more of a deeper zone, relying on quickness he doesn't really have. I wonder if there would be any merrit in swapping Bobby and KJ at all..? Use KJ's bigger body for run stuffing and Bobby's speed against the pass? Guess we don't need to mess with the recipe if it's working, but those shallow routes seem to be a real weakness against this group. At this rate, Manning would destroy them with that quick hit game he plays...

As you yourself say, most of BR is regurgitated National Media BS. So i don't pay attention to it. It's my own opinion and you're free to have your own.

If Keith is good, more power to him. Hope he starts his own site like Hawkblogger, FieldGulls or the now defunct Scouttheseahawks so he doesn't get dragged down by the utter BS that is BP.

 

[Largent80]

For some reason the staff had us in zone a lot in the first half, and that was not working. Not ready to worry about LB at this point, we get Bruce into the fold this week, a nice problem to have IMO.

 

[RichNhansom]

Had me until "Bleacher Report"

You really need to take a look at who wrote the article before completely writing off BR as nonsense. Keith Myers wrote that article. Keith used to run the 12th man rising blog. He knows his stuff more or less. He does his homework and doesn't just regurgitate the national media like most on BR do. Some might not like him, but I think he's okay. He ain't no Schefter, but who is? He's more like a slightly less bipolar Hawkblogger.

The article is on the mark for the most part IMO. The backers look pretty good against the run and pretty bad against the pass. Nothing we don't already know. I think his grade of B is a little too generous IMO, but whatev.

I don't think Irvin coming back is going to do much to bolster the lb corps against the pass, other than having Irvin in the backfield getting in the QB's face all the time. I'm kind of starting to question moving KJ over the the weak side. Being the Sam seemed to play to his strengths, he was playing the run and covering the flat. Playing Will seems to expose his weaknesses; less playing the run, playing more of a deeper zone, relying on quickness he doesn't really have. I wonder if there would be any merrit in swapping Bobby and KJ at all..? Use KJ's bigger body for run stuffing and Bobby's speed against the pass? Guess we don't need to mess with the recipe if it's working, but those shallow routes seem to be a real weakness against this group. At this rate, Manning would destroy them with that quick hit game he plays...

I remember Kearly posting pretty much this exact thing before the season started.

I do wonder if the improvement on the D-line has had an inadvertent negative effect though. Our LB's are being asked to play a little different than last year because the line is so much more dominant. Maybe the stats aren't there because the line is doing it's job and maybe the LB's are still adjusting to that and learning how to be more diverse or better in coverage while not weakening the line. Another poster pointed out that opponents will likely see the LB area as the safest area to throw the ball also and with Sherman, Browner, Thomas and Kamtrack out there they are probably correct.

 

[DavidSeven]

Some people mentioned that Sherm looked sort of ill on Sunday. I've heard some commentators say that we may have dropped into zone to limit Andre Johnson. Maybe these things are related. Who knows? I'm not really concerned. The entire defense is built on the premise of limiting big plays and giving up the underneath route when push comes to shove. You're not going to completely shut down every NFL offense for 4 quarters. Let them attack the middle -- we still haven't given up more than 20 this season.