Well, 'something' seems wrong - per Lockett

[NoGain]

I'm giving MM time to get his feet under him. When he does, and he better cements his vision for the team, then clean house of the players that aren't with him. Pretty normal for such a leadership change.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I don't want to misunderstand you so what did people take for granted with Pete?

Overall cultural stability in the organization. No legitimate risk of a truly "lost" locker room.

 

[GemCity]

Go watch the game against the Steelers last year. Players gave up on PC and his coaches as well.

I think part of the issue (a big one) is that young Mike is trying to maintain intensity and focus during games via coordinators who are vastly inexperienced and in Grubb's case, ebtirely absent from the sideline and up in the booth.

He's suffering from a similar issue as PC - his generals arent strong enough to hold things together when they go wrong.

Durdy seems like a knowledgable guy, but that doesnt mean he commands respect.

Grubb seems like a creative enough playcaller, but would he be able to keep DK in check when he starts throwing a tantrum? With Grubb, i have a sneaky suspicion he has little interest in managing player emotions, maintaining focus ans stoking moral on the sidelines.

So its not so much that Mike's method is failing. But if he is the type of leader to stand there stoically with his back to the bench while he's calling the D and working with Grubb to handle substitutions on O, he cant have a bunch of absent or quiet nice guys backing him up, especially when things go bad. Its not that it cant be done. Bill B was a quiet leader but led with a big stick and had young guys he groomed who maintained the sidelines... and he had Brady. A Reid is quiet, but had Spags and had Bienemy to chew guys out l, build them up and keep players heads in the game.

It remains to be seen if MM has the generals he needs

And therein lies the chasm in the execution of the culture on gameday. Pete was everywhere on the sideline, talking to everyone. Mike might be masterful monday to saturday and entirely competent (even moreso) on gameday, but if his way is less engaging in terms of interaction with guys on gameday and keeping things together, he needs men to do that for him.

I dont see it in Grubb (and he cant do it from the booth) and I cant say that I have seen Durdy at all.

Just my .02

. Great post and my sentiments/concerns as well.

 

[GetNjigbaWithIt]

Go watch the game against the Steelers last year. Players gave up on PC and his coaches as well.

I think part of the issue (a big one) is that young Mike is trying to maintain intensity and focus during games via coordinators who are vastly inexperienced and in Grubb's case, ebtirely absent from the sideline and up in the booth.

He's suffering from a similar issue as PC - his generals arent strong enough to hold things together when they go wrong.

Durdy seems like a knowledgable guy, but that doesnt mean he commands respect.

Grubb seems like a creative enough playcaller, but would he be able to keep DK in check when he starts throwing a tantrum? With Grubb, i have a sneaky suspicion he has little interest in managing player emotions, maintaining focus ans stoking moral on the sidelines.

So its not so much that Mike's method is failing. But if he is the type of leader to stand there stoically with his back to the bench while he's calling the D and working with Grubb to handle substitutions on O, he cant have a bunch of absent or quiet nice guys backing him up, especially when things go bad. Its not that it cant be done. Bill B was a quiet leader but led with a big stick and had young guys he groomed who maintained the sidelines... and he had Brady. A Reid is quiet, but had Spags and had Bienemy to chew guys out l, build them up and keep players heads in the game.

It remains to be seen if MM has the generals he needs

And therein lies the chasm in the execution of the culture on gameday. Pete was everywhere on the sideline, talking to everyone. Mike might be masterful monday to saturday and entirely competent (even moreso) on gameday, but if his way is less engaging in terms of interaction with guys on gameday and keeping things together, he needs men to do that for him.

I dont see it in Grubb (and he cant do it from the booth) and I cant say that I have seen Durdy at all.

Just my .02

Did you hear what Luke Willson said on KJ's podcast a while back? He basically confirmed the players weren't taking their jobs as seriously as they should, and that led Luke to retire.

 

[keasley45]

Did you hear what Luke Willson said on KJ's podcast a while back? He basically confirmed the players weren't taking their jobs as seriously as they should, and that led Luke to retire.

Yup.

And when you hear Tyler saying things like 'we have to take walk-throughs more seriously '... it could be a nothing burger, targeting 1 or 3 players who are habitually not focusing when they should. Or, it could be a more serious issue where, if Mike is spending most of gis time getting the D in shape, Grubb is left manage things.

I'm not saying Grubb is or isnt anything, but my instinct says he's more 'concept' focused and isnt the type of leader to chew guys out, hammer details, and drive for absolute perfection if things arent where they need to be.

I doubt its a situation as bad as Luke described in Pete's camp in 2020, but at thr end of the day, if others see DK pouting and calling out coordinators and there are no repercussions... that kind of thing can spiral out quickly .

Again, not saying what is or isnt happening. Just my sense

 

[pittpnthrs]

Overall cultural stability in the organization. No legitimate risk of a truly "lost" locker room.

I don't know how to reply to this without starting an argument because I don't really want one, but,,,,

Yeah the culture was great for the players (the players who bought in), but it was a detriment at the same time. The inmates ran the asylum. Nobody was held accountable. Pete took the blame for everybody. You had Bennett reading books during team meetings, Sherman saying the message was stale and ran its course, Wilson being an introvert, Thomas and Lynch flipping off the coaches, Angry Doug, and current players going through the motions and DK having tantrums while he was here. There was no discipline. It's why the Hawks were always league leaders in penalties.

Lost locker room? It was exactly that after the 14' debacle. It took a few years to get rid of the guys who no longer wanted to be here and didn't buy in and the team was never a serious contender again.

We talked about this once before and you posted that the days of disciplinarian coaches are coming to an end due to todays society and how players have different personalities. You may well be right, but damn I hope MM takes the kid gloves off and puts the hammer down. This organization needs it. No more romper room.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Is it a joke though? You’re on point

And thank **** he is

It's both hahahahaha

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Did you hear what Luke Willson said on KJ's podcast a while back? He basically confirmed the players weren't taking their jobs as seriously as they should, and that led Luke to retire.

Not surprised one bit. Pete let the players get away with WAY too much, imo.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I don't know how to reply to this without starting an argument because I don't really want one, but,,,,

Yeah the culture was great for the players (the players who bought in), but it was a detriment at the same time. The inmates ran the asylum. Nobody was held accountable. Pete took the blame for everybody. You had Bennett reading books during team meetings, Sherman saying the message was stale and ran its course, Wilson being an introvert, Thomas and Lynch flipping off the coaches, Angry Doug, and current players going through the motions and DK having tantrums while he was here. There was no discipline. It's why the Hawks were always league leaders in penalties.

Lost locker room? It was exactly that after the 14' debacle. It took a few years to get rid of the guys who no longer wanted to be here and didn't buy in and the team was never a serious contender again.

We talked about this once before and you posted that the days of disciplinarian coaches are coming to an end due to todays society and how players have different personalities. You may well be right, but damn I hope MM takes the kid gloves off and puts the hammer down. This organization needs it. No more romper room.

I won't argue with you. I mean, I'll disagree, but right now I trust that your responses are entirely good faith in nature and (although I certainly falter at this) I always want to repay that respect.

At its worst, I think you're right that the more malignant personalities in the locker room did end up having an outsized effect on the chemistry of the team. That came in a lot of different flavors, whether it be a more business-like pissed off Russ near the end of his tenure or guys like Earl Thomas going off the rails.

Every philosophy has its downsides when it comes to team chemistry. The key to me is straddling the line, and on-field success tends to keep any philosophy working.

With Pete, I think the comfort was that even though the players were enabled to take on roles of outsized influence, his consistency as an organizational leader dating back to USC made it feel like we were never really at risk for a full mutiny during the rare shit season like 2021. It didn't feel like the team was going to outright quit regardless of the circumstances.

'14 was rough. I don't think that was a lost locker room, though. When I say lost locker room, I'm talking like... Frank Reich in Carolina, or Urban Meyer in Jacksonville... or Doug Pederson in Jacksonville as well. Locker rooms who have truly completely been lost, rather than just having some schism.

Now, clarifying here, I do not want to say or imply that this is happening already with MM. I don't think it is. My point is more that... well, we don't have the safety net of "this guy is an old pro and he's never faced a locker room he couldn't at least keep somewhat cohesive."

The unknown is scary, but I don't want to assume there are monsters in the room just because it's dark. I do, however, think it's interesting to speculate now, as Tyler Lockett and Leonard Williams are two of the last dudes I'd expect to hint at team mindset issues in public statements.

EDIT: Also, to the point of disciplinarian coaches coming to an end: I still do think that they'll become rarer and rarer, but that's because so many of them are bad at it. A lot of coaches are dicks about it.

But to quote Principal Joe Clark: "Discipline is not the enemy of enthusiasm!"

That quote sticks with me as the mantra every successful modern disciplinarian coach will need to live by. Guys who can do both, like Dan Campbell, are going to be the new wave of hardass coaches. Positive hardassery, so to speak.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I won't argue with you. I mean, I'll disagree, but right now I trust that your responses are entirely good faith in nature and (although I certainly falter at this) I always want to repay that respect.

At its worst, I think you're right that the more malignant personalities in the locker room did end up having an outsized effect on the chemistry of the team. That came in a lot of different flavors, whether it be a more business-like pissed off Russ near the end of his tenure or guys like Earl Thomas going off the rails.

Every philosophy has its downsides when it comes to team chemistry. The key to me is straddling the line, and on-field success tends to keep any philosophy working.

With Pete, I think the comfort was that even though the players were enabled to take on roles of outsized influence, his consistency as an organizational leader dating back to USC made it feel like we were never really at risk for a full mutiny during the rare shit season like 2021. It didn't feel like the team was going to outright quit regardless of the circumstances.

'14 was rough. I don't think that was a lost locker room, though. When I say lost locker room, I'm talking like... Frank Reich in Carolina, or Urban Meyer in Jacksonville... or Doug Pederson in Jacksonville as well. Locker rooms who have truly completely been lost, rather than just having some schism.

Now, clarifying here, I do not want to say or imply that this is happening already with MM. I don't think it is. My point is more that... well, we don't have the safety net of "this guy is an old pro and he's never faced a locker room he couldn't at least keep somewhat cohesive."

The unknown is scary, but I don't want to assume there are monsters in the room just because it's dark. I do, however, think it's interesting to speculate now, as Tyler Lockett and Leonard Williams are two of the last dudes I'd expect to hint at team mindset issues in public statements.

EDIT: Also, to the point of disciplinarian coaches coming to an end: I still do think that they'll become rarer and rarer, but that's because so many of them are bad at it. A lot of coaches are dicks about it.

But to quote Principal Joe Clark: "Discipline is not the enemy of enthusiasm!"

That quote sticks with me as the mantra every successful modern disciplinarian coach will need to live by. Guys who can do both, like Dan Campbell, are going to be the new wave of hardass coaches. Positive hardassery, so to speak.

Great reply Mael and you cleared some things up I was in question about.

You are right when you stated that Pete never lost the locker room entirely. Even after 14' I feel it was more of a split locker room rather than lost.

As for Tyler and Big Cats comments, I just feel they are speaking as leaders and trying to reach the players that don't have their heads on right. I don't think it's so much MM that's causing a riff as it's just some players being lax and missing assignments. Unfortunately, losing compounds the issues. Also, i'm sure a lot of the players don't feel as comfortable now as they did with Pete (it's a completely different atmosphere) and Tyler and Leonard are just saying to put your big boy pants on and fall in line. The players that don't won't be here next year.

 

[GetNjigbaWithIt]

Yup.

And when you hear Tyler saying things like 'we have to take walk-throughs more seriously '... it could be a nothing burger, targeting 1 or 3 players who are habitually not focusing when they should. Or, it could be a more serious issue where, if Mike is spending most of gis time getting the D in shape, Grubb is left manage things.

I'm not saying Grubb is or isnt anything, but my instinct says he's more 'concept' focused and isnt the type of leader to chew guys out, hammer details, and drive for absolute perfection if things arent where they need to be.

I doubt its a situation as bad as Luke described in Pete's camp in 2020, but at thr end of the day, if others see DK pouting and calling out coordinators and there are no repercussions... that kind of thing can spiral out quickly .

Again, not saying what is or isnt happening. Just my sense

I get what you're saying. I don't really see it as Grubb's job to chew out the players, though. As HC, MM needs to be the one to hold every player accountable, doesn't matter if they're on offense or defense. He's the leader of the team, you don't want all the players looking to the OC for leadership, that would undermine MM's role. As much as most of us wanted MM to call plays on defense, maybe that's holding him back from being the leader he needs to be.

 

[GeekHawk]

What happened to Leslie Frazier, the former head coach we hired as a sort of 'backup' to MM? I should think he would be all about intensity during walk-throughs and keeping shit in check on the sidelines on game day.

 

[chris98251]

Grubb may need a Heavy to be his enforcer, Mike has to get to the bottom to rebuild. Also we have to remember Players in the pros don't react like players in college to many things, business first.

What I would do is put a image of a Raiders Helmet, Browns Helmet, Cowboys Helmet, Jets Helmet up and say these teams are looking for players, we can always use more draft picks, don't improve and you may go where your career may fade away. I would also put in the Helmet last year in playoffs.

 

[86Hawk]

I really think they need to blow it up after the season and do a complete rebuild. Before Thursdays game Richard Sherman was interviewing Tyler Lockett about the coaching differences in Petes style and Mike Macdonalds.

Tyler responded with Pete it was let everyone be themselves and with Macdonald it’s more of a military style.

I guarantee that some players in that locker room are struggling with the difference and should be dealt with accordingly.

Give Mike Macdonald a fair chance and let him bring in his own guys.

 

[LTH]

MM is going to fleece this roster after the season. Not much he can do about it right now.

Sounds like JS might be on the hit list... he is the one who created this roster...Pitt it'd time to REBELL!

LTH

 

[AgentDib]

We would all love to learn more about the internal state of the team, but don't let that desire cloud your judgement about whether you are actually learning something. I'm not criticizing anybody for speculating, just remember that like most public information this isn't actually evidence of anything. Maybe Lockett actually thinks the play calling has been hot garbage, or that Geno isn't throwing him the ball enough, or whatever.

In a case like this, consider that Lockett was asked a question and has to say something. "We as players just have to work harder" might well be true, but it is also the best thing for a player to say publicly. Every other response, such as blaming luck, injuries, refs, scheme, scheduling, play calling or whatever, is not the kind of thing a team leader should be saying to the media.

 

[MORGULON]

I really think they need to blow it up after the season and do a complete rebuild. Before Thursdays game Richard Sherman was interviewing Tyler Lockett about the coaching differences in Petes style and Mike Macdonalds.

Tyler responded with Pete it was let everyone be themselves and with Macdonald it’s more of a military style.

I guarantee that some players in that locker room are struggling with the difference and should be dealt with accordingly.

Give Mike Macdonald a fair chance and let him bring in his own guys.

Lockett is at the end of the road as far as I'm concerned.
Not that the front office has asked me .
19 Million this season for what exactly ?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

You could say that about several players around the league.

 

[jeremiah]

Tyler Lockett latest veteran to complain about Seahawks most worrisome trend

There appears to be a growing disillusionment with fellow Seattle Seahawks teammates and Tyler Lockett is the latest to add his opinion to that.

12thmanrising.com

12thmanrising has had several interesting pieces lately.

Bad QB's lead to bad mojo on the team. Geno is a fill in, and can't be expected to match his previous years performance. Like a Mariner hitter moving towards ..300 BA, you know they will fall off to .240.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Great reply Mael and you cleared some things up I was in question about.

You are right when you stated that Pete never lost the locker room entirely. Even after 14' I feel it was more of a split locker room rather than lost.

As for Tyler and Big Cats comments, I just feel they are speaking as leaders and trying to reach the players that don't have their heads on right. I don't think it's so much MM that's causing a riff as it's just some players being lax and missing assignments. Unfortunately, losing compounds the issues. Also, i'm sure a lot of the players don't feel as comfortable now as they did with Pete (it's a completely different atmosphere) and Tyler and Leonard are just saying to put your big boy pants on and fall in line. The players that don't won't be here next year.

I totally agree that the comments in the media are a display of leadership. DK has hopped on that train, as well, criticizing his own play on the INT last week and contrasting it with how he's ran that same concept in practice over and over.

Veteran leadership is going to have to step up big to set the tone. Hard times create strong men, and hopefully some guys rise to the occasion, and additionally this offseason we can add some stronger leaders to the locker room for the years to come. We really need a Kam or Lynch to be the "heart" of the squad. We have some good voices, but we don't have one of *those* dudes.

I don't think Mike's gonna lose this squad. We've just got too competent of an organization around him.